I Have always been of the opinion that a rudder that is hung off the back of a keel is the most seaworthy, my sailing mentors & logic has told me this .

Barring that a skeg hung rudder, then at the bottom of the list (& in the deal-breaker category for me ) is spade rudders. Even a crab pot line wrapped around the rudder could do damage?? Am I too old skool for my own good?

Being that rudder failure is probably at the top of the list as the cause of lost yachts (oh maybe nav errors are up there ), you want to get the rudder construction right, talking about ocean going yachts here.
Who has a spade rudder & is it a worry for you?

Hi Bluemoon

My Sailmaster has a spade rudder and i guess it is vulnerable to catching stuff that other rudder types might let slide past and also it probably isn't as strong as other types either

For the sailing i do it doesn't worry me that much but if i intended crossing oceans i would probably look for something other than a spade

There are a few Sailmasters around here that have had the rudders modified to support them at the bottom of the blade and to protect the propeller but it isn't high on my list of things to do

Regards Don

Spade rudders at the top of the list for sinkings??? There was Newspaper Taxi about 20 years ago, but she was extremely lightly built and the top bearing beam may not have been replaced since a bodgy "fix" was done. Maybe Goldfinger (??) the Farr 52 OD as well, and some random Catabenter average white boats. We lost a rudder on a sunfish at 9.something knots in a Hobart years ago, but luckily the shaft snapped.

They can be a problem, but one that watertight bulkheads or good construction can largely (perhaps entirely) alleviate. And they can significantly reduce the time you are exposed to said hazards of the sea, improve the turning circle that could allow you to dodge a ship or get back to a MOB, etc etc. I've had as much trouble with steering malfunctions on long keelers as spade ruddered boats. Like so many things, it's down to personal give-and-take decisions.

If we look at other ways of travelling, we see people who go to 5 star hotels, and people who hitch-hike with backpacks. We see cyclists who load up their bike with six panniers and 60kg+ of gear, others who ride around the world with 1/10th of that. There are people who cruise old IOR racing machines (still with runners, spade rudders and bare alloy interiors), Wharrams and steelies.....there can't just be one correct choice when so many smart people have so much fun on so many different craft.

If I was really worried about sinking, I'd have a mono with positive flotation, and that's easier in a fairly light boat that suits a spade rudder.

In 2013 I skippered a Cole 43 for the Lord Howe Rally. We sailed her from Sydney to Newcastle a week before Lord Howe departure during which I found a number of issues which the owner had repaired in Newcastle.
One problem was that the boat had a spade rudder modification, the skeg had been removed 15-20 years ago and a long (about 3 metres) spade rudder installed. The original quadrant was alloy and had corroded away allowing the rudder to settle down an inch or two. The owner had replaced the alloy one with a steel one but hadn't lifted the rudder back up as it was a very difficult evolution. In Newcastle it was apparent the rudder was sitting that inch or two lower than it should have been. The shipwright inspected it when she was on the hard and said it was OK. On that basis we set off for Lord Howe.
About 50nm out in a 15kt breeze and a two metre swell I went below for a nap prior to my watch. In a doze I hear the owner say "Don't panic, don't panic" I leapt up into the cockpit to find the top rudder post mount, on the top of the cockpit/lazarette seat behind the wheel being held by one of the four bolts, the other three had sheared. I could see the mount move around as the rudder posted moved with the rudder.
I secured the boat, heaved to and the owner got down into the lazarette and we spent the next 6 hours securing the top of the rudder post.
If this had happened after dark when it couldn't be seen the rudder post would have eventually broken the riser tube inside the boat in which it was mounted. The boat would have sunk in minutes with an irrepairable break.
The only S&S34 to have sunk at sea was Morning Tide a few years ago off Byron Bay. At Lord Howe last year one of the crew on another boat told me he sailed on Morning Tide with its first owner and that she had a modified rudder. I later spoke to the owner at the time she sank who told me that the rudder had been modified to a spade design. In a savage knockdown the rudder post broke the riser tube and the boat sank.
I will never sail offshore on any boat with a modified rudder. Anything with a spade rudder will need a surveyors certificate guaranteeing the bloody thing is as strong as Fort Knox. The forces on the rudder in big seas have to be seen to be believed. I slip my skeg hung rudder boat every time before a major offshore passage to check the bearings.

I have had boats with both spade rudders and full length keels. (not on the same boat of course).

They both have advantages and disadvantages.

My current cruising yacht has a full length keel and I love it. That is, until I am in a marina or other situation where tight maneuvering means peace of mind.

I was in a marina recently when at about 1300 hrs a Jarkan backed into the berth beside me, effortlessly. There is no way I could have done that in my current boat.

The direction that my current boat travels in revers depends on two things, prop walk an/or wind strength. In light wind or no wind she prop-walks to port. If however there is a decent wind blowing then the wind catches my bow and pushes it leeward, meaning we are now reversing to whichever way the stern is pointing. You can just about forget rudder input in either condition.

In light wind I can engage gear, start moving in reverse, disengage gear and hope the rudder helps me turn a bit but I can never bank on it.

NOW, in a seaway or particularly in heavy weather the full length keel comes into it's own. The autopilot tracks better, the boat steers very well and isn't as "twichy' as some spade rudder/fin keelers I have sailed on.

I guess it comes down to personal preference and how you plan to use your boat. We cruise extensively and seldom use marinas so in our case where we use our anchor most of the time it isn't so important that we can't turn on a dime whereas the ability to track straight and handle a seaway is more important to us.

In my younger (racing) days a fin keeler was the only way to go. Less drag, sharper more precise turns and fun bots to sail.

spade rudders skeg hung or attached to a long keel should all be of equal strength.vessels don't loose rudders because of the rudder type but because of under engineering.
though a long keel with rudder attached does offer more protection probably the worst arrangement is twin rudders as even the fin keel isn't there to stop hitting obstacles as proven by Hobart results with twin rudder boats often loosing blades to sun fish mind you so do all other types
build it strong enough it wont break

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boty said..
spade rudders skeg hung or attached to a long keel should all be of equal strength.vessels don't loose rudders because of the rudder type but because of under engineering.
though a long keel with rudder attached does offer more protection probably the worst arrangement is twin rudders as even the fin keel isn't there to stop hitting obstacles as proven by Hobart results with twin rudder boats often loosing blades to sun fish mind you so do all other types
build it strong enough it wont break

Agree. Both my experiences above were boats that originally had skeg hung rudders that had been modified. But I still would inspect any spade rudder configuration before I went on a offshore passage.

www.mysailing.com.au/racing/emergency-steering-solutions

There is nothing wrong with spade rudders. In some situations yes a keel mounted rudder may have advantages but there are disadvantages as well.

Just look at the number of production boats with spade rudders successfully traversing oceans eg: ARC. Or even pushing boats hard Volvo, Syd Hob, Fastnet all with spade rudders.

Make sure the maintenance is up to scratch and sail conservatively and with emergency solutions (which should go for keel mounted rudders as well) and you will be fine

Hi Bluemoon you are like me I would not have a boat with a spade rudder they are very vulnerable to strikes
about 12 months ago a Moody 55 struck the wave rider off Ballina in rough conditions . It tore the rudder out of
leg that supports the rudder and bent the rudder stock and tore the bottom of the hull and began to take on water
the bilge pumps could not copy hence had to abandon ship. the yacht ended up on Broadwater beach. Went and
had a capt cook was not a pretty site. I f you google Moody yacht you will see the propeller and rudder are both
very vulnerable to strikes .The last thing you want to have happen is lose you steering. Have a nice day