Hi all,
My first post and hoping someone can help. I've just bought a Space Sailer 22 with the swing keel which is in need of a fair bit of renovation. I'm in the Sunshine Coast hinterland so a fair way from the main fleet of Space Sailers in my original home of W.A.
The keel was seized so the previous owner has cut open the cover inside the cabin and worked it loose. I'm going to put it over a pit so that I can drop the keel and fair it before rebuilding the cover inside.
Another job I really want to tackle is to remove the 2 half walls leading forward to create a vee berth as we will mainly be using the boat for short cruising and this would seem to be a better use of available space. What I'm not sure of is whether these walls have any structural use as there is no internal mast support post. I have no idea if there was in the past and this has been removed or not. Is this achievable??
Thanking you all in advance.
Cheers...Ian

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New2the22 said..
Hi all,
My first post and hoping someone can help. I've just bought a Space Sailer 22 with the swing keel which is in need of a fair bit of renovation. I'm in the Sunshine Coast hinterland so a fair way from the main fleet of Space Sailers in my original home of W.A.
The keel was seized so the previous owner has cut open the cover inside the cabin and worked it loose. I'm going to put it over a pit so that I can drop the keel and fair it before rebuilding the cover inside.
Another job I really want to tackle is to remove the 2 half walls leading forward to create a vee berth as we will mainly be using the boat for short cruising and this would seem to be a better use of available space. What I'm not sure of is whether these walls have any structural use as there is no internal mast support post. I have no idea if there was in the past and this has been removed or not. Is this achievable??
Thanking you all in advance.
Cheers...Ian

Hi, I would be wary about removing bulkheads, part or full, they provide the structural elements that are needed for the design to work.

See prior post from Microbe here which started on deck repair for his SS22 and extended to a lot more. Expect Microbe will chime in soon. In the below thread if I recall right see link to SS22 owners group - added again below. As per Uncle Bob internal bulkheads (and mast supports) are needed for structural integrity so best to assess what the original S22 arrangement was and be guided by that. If those half walls are under the mast then they would be acting as mast support as well as hull bulkheads. Expect there would be a decent laminated beam linking the two under the mast step and curved to the deck head.

Realise you can't post photos but as soon as you can it would be helpful to see some relevant shots.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Deck-repair-advice

www.spacesailer22.org.au/

www.spacesailer22.org.au/wp-content/documents/gregsMarineOrigSpec.pdf

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r13 said..
See prior post from Microbe here which started on deck repair for his SS22 and extended to a lot more. Expect Microbe will chime in soon. In the below thread if I recall right see link to SS22 owners group - added again below. As per Uncle Bob internal bulkheads (and mast supports) are needed for structural integrity so best to assess what the original S22 arrangement was and be guided by that. If those half walls are under the mast then they would be acting as mast support as well as hull bulkheads. Expect there would be a decent laminated beam linking the two under the mast step and curved to the deck head.

Realise you can't post photos but as soon as you can it would be helpful to see some relevant shots.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Deck-repair-advice

www.spacesailer22.org.au/

www.spacesailer22.org.au/wp-content/documents/gregsMarineOrigSpec.pdf

R13, thanks so much for the detailed advice. I've started on this 10,000 piece jigsaw and very new job I take on adds a few thou more!!
It is a pity I can't add photos as it would make it all a bit clearer, I'm sure.
Anyway, was back in the boat this afternoon adding mountains of dust as I ground out all the useless epoxy that's been added over the decades to try to see where I'm at. It seems the bulkheads are very flimsy, just thin ply with a layer of fiberglass over them. Haven't even been painted in parts so I'm guessing they've been added in later. They form an opening to where the toilet originally sat. They are well forward of the mast, approx 400mm, so don't seem to be of any structural use. Happy to stand corrected on this.
As to the mast support, the mast seems to be above the swing keel, maybe 300mm from the end of its case so again, no logical spot a pole could go down to support it under load???
There's not too many photos of internal fit out I can find so struggling a bit here. I did see one of Microbe's boat and couldn't see a post but I'm not sure if the fixed and swing keels were different.
So many questions!!!

Hi and welcome to the SS22 family. They are great boats - very capable, roomy for a 22ftr and cheap to buy.

As r13 mentioned I've done a fair bit to mine recently, and still have a way to go. Mine is the fixed keel version. I've never seen one with a swing keel so it will be interesting to see once you can post some pics.

The forward bulkhead is an interesting question and one that I have posted to the SS22 community (www.facebook.com/Space-Sailer-22-318676201822023/community/?ref=page_internal). It seems that some boats have them and some (mine included) don't. The bulkhead obviously adds to the stiffness of the boat and in strong winds my leeward shrouds are quite slack as the hull flexes under load. I do have a compression post and think that this is very important. The static tension on your forestay, backstay, upper and lower shrouds will all be generating a downward force on your mast that will want to spear it through your cabin top unless you have a post to take the load through to the keel.

I like having the open plan look and the v berth, but am considering putting in a bulkhead level with the mast to keep the sides of the boat from being pulled inwards by sailing forces.

Thanks Microbe for posting. New2the22 suggest you really need to sort out a suitable mast compression post as well as a decent under the sidedeck web gusset bulkhead structure each side for the chainplates like in Mircobes photo. How are your chainplates done now? Need photos as mentioned when you are permitted to post. The fwd end of the swing keel centreboard case could be extended 300mm to meet up with a suitable timber compression post. Are there any signs of deck or hull cracking or crazing under the mast step or around the chainplate structure?

Ian,
I had a 22' swing keel 20 years back. I remember phoning and talking to one of the Swarbricks in Perth about the removal of the bulkhead. He said he couldn't see any reason not to remove it as long as you had the compression post installed. I had a compression post, so I did, opened up the inside heaps, all went well. One day the leeward rigging looked a bit looser than normal and the roof of the boat had a slight dip in it. This is not good I thought. Turns out the support under the compression post was collapsing. It was a flimsy looking thing, replaced it with a bit of good Aussie hard wood and off she went again. Perhaps the bulkhead did take some of the load after all.
A mate had an old Diamond boom and mainsail, so we fitted it up to her. The sails reefing point allowed the main to fit perfectly for luff length. It added a bit on a reach but not a lot on a work.
Also, when I slept on board, to make for a much wider bed. I ran a length a timber the length of the settee, 19mm lower than the top edge and used 19mm timber as boards across.
The hull does flex a bit in strong breezes but I had fun in her.
Mike

Gotta say some of the 22 interiors look interesting. The ones with the "trotter boxes" (foot spaces) that extend under the bulkhead could work really well; you seem to end up with a separate toilet compartment and storage area which is a great thing in a 22'er used for cruising.

Thanks for the extra info. Have just spent some time on the boat and have found what could have been where a mast support post went to. Its directly under the mast base so seems logical however there's nowhere to land it on the floor as it drops to the end of the swing keel. Really wish I could post some photos as it would make it all easier to explain.
It seems that when I rebuild the keel casing (which has been cut open by the previous owner to free a siezed keel) I will build in a mast base support. I hate not knowing what I'm doing but will put it all together somehow ??

Thanks microbe and magpiemike...all adding to my knowledge of this lovely boat. I'm thinking to move the bulkhead to where the mast post will be to try to get the best of all worlds. Too many options!!!!

Sounds like paying for a little advice may save you money and time in the long run. Maybe try and find a yard or boat builder near you. Maybe someone on here can put you in touch with somebody. But paying someone who knows what they are doing for a few hours to have a look at it and tell you how to do the job properly could be a good investment in the long run.
Or at least wait until you post pics on here.
A job done properly will give a better re- sale value.

I would be careful of getting rid of flimsy ply bulkheads. My 38ft cat uses only 8mm ply for most of its bulkheads. If well built, even 6 mm ply could be very useful structurally.

The mast compression and centreboard case side loads are the ones I would be very interested in. The loads have to go somewhere and you need to understand what is happening and where the loads will travel - down the mast and into the deck - some Tophats use a large square section to take the mast compression load sideways so they can still have a nice cutout in the bulkhead. The board case will have very large side loads and should have solid support sideways to deal with these. These supports can be floors, bulkheads or struts.

Post some photos and it will be easier to work it out.

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Kankama said..
I would be careful of getting rid of flimsy ply bulkheads. My 38ft cat uses only 8mm ply for most of its bulkheads. If well built, even 6 mm ply could be very useful structurally.

The mast compression and centreboard case side loads are the ones I would be very interested in. The loads have to go somewhere and you need to understand what is happening and where the loads will travel - down the mast and into the deck - some Tophats use a large square section to take the mast compression load sideways so they can still have a nice cutout in the bulkhead. The board case will have very large side loads and should have solid support sideways to deal with these. These supports can be floors, bulkheads or struts.

Post some photos and it will be easier to work it out.

Thanks for the advice. It seems the play is maybe only about 4mm but I'll definitely be very wary before I remove it. Anything I take out I'll replace with something equally as strong so either move it forward or make a ply and fiberglass laminate to put in it's place. A lot of thinking to do!

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Kankama said..
I would be careful of getting rid of flimsy ply bulkheads. My 38ft cat uses only 8mm ply for most of its bulkheads. If well built, even 6 mm ply could be very useful structurally.

The mast compression and centreboard case side loads are the ones I would be very interested in. The loads have to go somewhere and you need to understand what is happening and where the loads will travel - down the mast and into the deck - some Tophats use a large square section to take the mast compression load sideways so they can still have a nice cutout in the bulkhead. The board case will have very large side loads and should have solid support sideways to deal with these. These supports can be floors, bulkheads or struts.

Post some photos and it will be easier to work it out.

The cenrtreboard side loads are not something I've thought about. Maybe I'll build in a pedestal for the mast compression post and brace the whole lot to the sides.

Select to expand quote

Kankama said..
I would be careful of getting rid of flimsy ply bulkheads. My 38ft cat uses only 8mm ply for most of its bulkheads. If well built, even 6 mm ply could be very useful structurally.

The mast compression and centreboard case side loads are the ones I would be very interested in. The loads have to go somewhere and you need to understand what is happening and where the loads will travel - down the mast and into the deck - some Tophats use a large square section to take the mast compression load sideways so they can still have a nice cutout in the bulkhead. The board case will have very large side loads and should have solid support sideways to deal with these. These supports can be floors, bulkheads or struts.

Post some photos and it will be easier to work it out.

The cenrtreboard side loads are not something I've thought about. Maybe I'll build in a pedestal for the mast compression post and brace the whole lot to the sides.

Select to expand quote

tarquin1 said..
Sounds like paying for a little advice may save you money and time in the long run. Maybe try and find a yard or boat builder near you. Maybe someone on here can put you in touch with somebody. But paying someone who knows what they are doing for a few hours to have a look at it and tell you how to do the job properly could be a good investment in the long run.
Or at least wait until you post pics on here.
A job done properly will give a better re- sale value.

Select to expand quote

tarquin1 said..
Sounds like paying for a little advice may save you money and time in the long run. Maybe try and find a yard or boat builder near you. Maybe someone on here can put you in touch with somebody. But paying someone who knows what they are doing for a few hours to have a look at it and tell you how to do the job properly could be a good investment in the long run.
Or at least wait until you post pics on here.
A job done properly will give a better re- sale value.

My main problem is the scarcity of the Space Sailer over here and particularly the swing keel version. I am working through a chandler with over 40 year's experience with all types of boats and he's happy for me to bounce ideas off him and his boat builder mates