The self tacking system shown in the sketch can work, although the blocks A have very akward angles to the running sheets. Also there is a lot of friction with that system, as the ropes have to move through the blocks during a tack. I prefer the Hanse system, or the equivalent on-deck idea.

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cisco said..

Toph said..
I kind of hope he was taking just taking the piss and trying to be funny/clever.

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HG02 said..

cisco said..

Toph said..
I kind of hope he was taking just taking the piss and trying to be funny/clever.

of course cisco was taking the piss .................... now i,m going to have one ......

samsturdy ...................... i just read that you are running an inner for-stay.



i would advise to investigate whether it is necessary to have that in position , all the time .


with a lot of mast head yachts ( older style) { i hope cisc likes those brackets better } , that was used to stop the mast pumping in heavy ocean swells .

if you sail in semi flat water most of the time you may be able to remove it with no problem .

keep it on strapped to the rigg , to be put on and tensioned when required .

its absence will make tacking easier .

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Yara said..
The self tacking system shown in the sketch can work, although the blocks A have very akward angles to the running sheets. Also there is a lot of friction with that system, as the ropes have to move through the blocks during a tack. I prefer the Hanse system, or the equivalent on-deck idea.

All the Noelex 25's and 30's have this sheeting system. Works perfectly with tapered sheets made from exotic fibre and small ball bearing blocks. On my N30 I used 8mm spectra with the cover stripped from the mid section of the sheet so very low friction in system. The trick with self tacking headsails is to crack sheets very slightly prior to tacking ie max speed mode rather than height mode. Trim is set for speed mode on completion of tack and as speed builds the sheet can be trimmed back to height mode if required.

As far as the OP goes my reading is that he has a furler fitted to the headsail. My suggestion would be to furl the headsail at leasure prior to tacking. Complete the tack and unfurl the headsail again at leasure.
Not a good idea to have an inexperienced helm try to steer the boat through a tack whilst throwing off the old headsail sheet with the main cleated. That will end in tears.
Helm steers boat only and needs to develop and be be tought to steer the boat to the new tack based on wind angle not some arbitrary point on the horizon. Better to understeer than oversteer. Practice with engine running and main only by all means as this keeps boatspeed up and steerage corrections much easier. Practice guiding the boat through the tack. The rudder is brought back to the centreline as the boat passes through head to wind, not when the boat is on the new heading (as most rookies do). Its a fast smooth turn to head to wind, then a gentle guide the boat onto the new course. The new course will be slightly lower as per comment on self tacking headsails.

With sophisticated instrument systems, such as Ockams it is possible to analyse a tack and optimise the shoot directly to windward against the fall in boatspeed to then see the optimum tack to maximise vmg. In dinghies it is possible to roll tack such that vmg is positive compared to non tack vmg. ie the boat can be fanned to windward.

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SandS said..


samsturdy ...................... i just read that you are running an inner for-stay.



i would advise to investigate whether it is necessary to have that in position , all the time .


with a lot of mast head yachts ( older style) { i hope cisc likes those brackets better } , that was used to stop the mast pumping in heavy ocean swells .

if you sail in semi flat water most of the time you may be able to remove it with no problem .

keep it on strapped to the rigg , to be put on and tensioned when required .

its absence will make tacking easier .

OK SandS. I see your point but to change how the boat is rigged will be a decision I'll have to make.

Sams,
My current boat came with an inner forestay that had recently been added to provide a cutter rig.
While the cutter rig would have been advantageous the inner forestay was attached where the original headstay was before the bowsprit was added. So in effect, the cutter headsail was where the original headsail was attached in the first place, albiet, with a smaller sail.
There were two problems with this.
Problem one was that when tacking, the gap between the inner forestay and the furler was to narrow and therefore a bit of a problem
Problem two was that there were two spectra running backstays added to the innerforestay where it attached to the mast and these were attached in a way that didn't allow free movement of the boom. This would have been tolerable when working to windward but would have been a pain in the bum downwind as the boom had only limited movement.
The solution was easy, remove the inner forestay and running backsays attached to the forestay fitting on the mast.
Im all for cutter rigs but they have to be well thought out.
In my case, I can reduce the headsail with the furler as the wind picks up. Only problem is that because of the bowsprit the headsail is a bit further forward than I would like.
My headsail is a 100% genoa on a furler. I have a 140% genoa that came with the boat that fits the furler but needs a few stitches on a seam. It will be nice to see how that affects my performance in light winds.
Also going to get an MPS made up to fit the boat. She is a bit heavy and while that has a few bonuses, light wind sailing is not one of them.

Crikey, this all sounds so complicated, I think I'll leave everything as is unless a problem happens...........and then I'll ask you how to fix it!!!.

I'm in the current slow process of moving my primary headsail with self taylors and moving them Aft so I can access them from the helm.
My past boats have all been non self tayloring so I'm used to both systems anyway.....I think the self tayloring just helps to crank on rather than helps with the tacking.

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southace said..

I'm in the current slow process of moving my primary headsail with self taylors and moving them Aft so I can access them from the helm.
My past boats have all been non self tayloring so I'm used to both systems anyway.....I think the self tayloring just helps to crank on rather than helps with the tacking.

Hi Southace

Is the position of the self tailer in the photo in the old position or the new position

I assume it is the new position as it looks like a cleat was there before

Regards Don

Yes it's the new position I'm moving the winches Aft. Replacing with the self Taylor's. I need to get the cover modified with a zip roll up so I can sail with the cover.

By the way Donk. Those are self Tailor winches. They cut suits to measure.

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southace said..
Yes it's the new position I'm moving the winches Aft. Replacing with the self Taylor's. I need to get the cover modified with a zip roll up so I can sail with the cover.

Hi Southace

I can see the attraction of having them back where you can steer and trim at the same time when sailing solo but depending on what you want to do with the boat i think there are some disadvantages

The boat that i race on (a 32 foot modern cruiser with a performance rig and flash sails) has them there as well but it makes it a bit cramped beside the wheel when you have a dedicated head sail trimmer who wants to be behind the winch to watch what the head sail is doing while trimming

Regards Don

Basically it will free up my entry point and enable me to tack without having to go forward and helm from the forward of the wheel during the tack and my guests can contune drining there beverages!!

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southace said..
Basically it will free up my entry point and enable me to tack without having to go forward and helm from the forward of the wheel during the tack and my guests can contune drining there beverages!!

Fair enough

I can appreciate your reasoning

No regrets in choosing the older boat over the young french lass you were lusting over

Regards Don

That's a nice looking rig on the yacht you race on Don. Good deck layout and all the airbrakes stowed!

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Ramona said..
That's a nice looking rig on the yacht you race on Don. Good deck layout and all the airbrakes stowed!

Hi Ramona

As i said before she is a cruiser with a few modifications to make her perform and she punches well above her weight against the local boats on the Huon and the Hobart boats

The skipper is 74 and has sailed all his life on the Huon and is a bit of a wizard on the river

Over the years he has competed in 13 Sydney Hobarts and has raced in regatta's around Australia and in America

In Hedley Calverts book "Always a Competitor" he described him as one of the best helmsman in Tasmania

He is a top bloke who sails for the love of it and win or lose is always smiling and doesn't mind spending some money on the boat to keep her in top shape and competitive against the more dedicated racers in the fleet

The best thing about being on his boat is we always have fun and i am constantly learning from watching what he does and asking why he makes some of the decisions that he does

This is a bit of a write up from the club news letter about the last season that pretty much sums it up

"To keep winning yacht races, it is essential to maintain your yacht by slipping regularly, upgrading the sails when necessary, having a gun crew and racing in every race. Veteran sailor and Huon Valley identity, Jeff Sharp, who skippers Femme Fatale a Jeaneau 32, didn’t miss a race all season and ended up winning a record number of races. It is said that if you make one mistake you come second and if you make two mistakes you come third. Jeff hardly made any mistakes and came out a winner in thirteen races this season, a record by any yacht in the history of the Huon Yacht Club. For this outstanding achievement the club Patron, David Sharp, presented brother Jeff with a special plaque, suitably engraved with the names of all thirteen trophies Jeff has won this season."



Commodore Roger Carter, major award recipient Jeff Sharp, Club Patron David Sharp and Club Secretary-Treasurer Susie Carter

Regards Don

S and S try this: (older style (i hope cisc likes those brackets better ))

Hi sam



Tiller steering but this my help

Kk

For me with five years experience, initially I only take inexperienced and tentative passengers out in light winds on sunny days. This results in building confidence in yourself and your crew and usually produces an unforgettable day. But its easier said than done.

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Bundeenaboy said..
For me with five years experience, initially I only take inexperienced and tentative passengers out in light winds on sunny days. This results in building confidence in yourself and your crew and usually produces an unforgettable day. But its easier said than done.

On the subject of taking people sailing

I work with a mate of mine called Trevor who has a fairly serious offshore power boat and I asked him if he wanted to go for a sail and he said how fast does your boat go

I replied that it went about 5 knots and he said that he trolled faster than that

We went for a sail and the breeze came up and we headed up wind

Trevor was on the tiller and I cranked the headsail and main on until she put the rail under and I could see that Trev was getting a bit concerned

He asked me if we were ok and I said we are only doing 5 knots and you troll faster than that

He replied that if his boat was on a angle like this it would be sinking

Regards Don

Good story Donk.