Dear Tigers, family and friends,

The copper cote on my Hunter 36 is not effective at all (not any more, it was done 2013). I am planning to take the boat out and to apply an ablative antifouling paint (Seaguardian Juton) over the copper cote. Anybody done this before? If I could dive and clean my boat by myself than i would not worry but current situation not is permitting. I am moving the boat every 5 days but still after 3 months boat is full of barnacles. I even tried to remove some barnacles from the rudder and I couldn't. Hard are rock! Max speed 4knots when bottom is dirty. Diver passed on Friday and yesterday got 5 knots on 2000 revs.. what a difference!

So, can I apply Juton over the copper cote and is it worth to paint the rudder with prop speed or just keep paying divers every six months?

Another option is to ask somebody to apply another cote of copper cote at Woolwich dock. In that case do you guys know any other Marina or dock that has been proved to do the job properly (copper cote)? I am paying 1700 bucks for hard stand over the weekend at Woolwich dock.

Thank you all, merry Christmas and happy new 2024.
Dr Pozder

All of my friends and acquaintances who have used coppercoat have gone back to conventional anti-foul. Pressure wash till clean and paint. Touch up any bare patches with primer if required of course.
This is an interesting video. The various paints used might not be readily available here. The build-up of slime is what screws us over and affects ablative paint as well. Once that slime gets there, the paint can not wear off, and when you start wiping it off, you shorten its life. I have used Altex No. 5 plus and after 13 months I'm surprised how well it has held up.

Ahhh, the quest for MAX motoring speed.... ??

Is this the same copper coat job you asked about earlier this year?

Copper cote request was for a friend of mine. What I have realised is that if the boat is moving every 5 days slime will lake long time to build up. Every 6 months of diver scribing will cost me 600 bucks per year, applying antifouling costs 1700 bucks for the stand and 700 bucks of paint..
$600 vs $2400 + (environmental issues, toxins). I feel that the best solution will be to apply a new cote of copper cote but how much will that be? It really worked well for 10 years.

I can not justify $24K for antifouling in the next 10 years. I am not using the boat enough (unless my wife kicks me out of house so I need to live on it ????), interesting how some people that I know love their copper cote and have no issues for 10 years.

Do you guys know a good sea lion who can be of an assistance to have a good chat about the price of applying copper cote and who can really do the job correctly without any lies and ****. So hard to find honest people around.
Thank you

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Serb1980 said..
Copper cote request was for a friend of mine. What I have realised is that if the boat is moving every 5 days slime will lake long time to build up. Every 6 months of diver scribing will cost me 600 bucks per year, applying antifouling costs 1700 bucks for the stand and 700 bucks of paint..
$600 vs $2400 + (environmental issues, toxins). I feel that the best solution will be to apply a new cote of copper cote but how much will that be? It really worked well for 10 years.

I can not justify $24K for antifouling in the next 10 years. I am not using the boat enough (unless my wife kicks me out of house so I need to live on it ????), interesting how some people that I know love their copper cote and have no issues for 10 years.

Do you guys know a good sea lion who can be of an assistance to have a good chat about the price of applying copper cote and who can really do the job correctly without any lies and ****. So hard to find honest people around.
Thank you

I would ring the technical department for Altex number five and see what they say. It is possible you may need a barrier coat before going to ablative although if the copper coat is old and all used up then maybe just paint directly over it provided it is abraded a little bit

Like Jules said you will need a tie coat, jotun recommend vinygard as a tie coat / sealer between new AF and unknown previous AF, copper cote being epoxy tho I imagine an epoxy primer like jotamastic will be recommendation. Talk to a sales rep of what ever poison you want to go with to get the heads up

I have used a few good ablative antifoul paints. I used to think ABC5 or now called Altex 5 was the ducks nuts when my boat was on a swing mooring with a couple of day sails a month. But I always gave the boat 2 coats of different colours so I knew how the paint was ablating. It was rather soft if I rubbed it.

I lost a coat of paint on one side in 12 days of a moderate weather crossing from Tas to NZ and started thinking of choosing a harder ablative paint for longer term cruising. So I have since used Hempels hard ablative and then couldn't get it in 2021 so switched to Jotun Sea Guardian and found it equaly effective for longer time between haul outs and frequent use (so far so good). The harder ablative paints aren't as soft if rubbed in the water but does need a decent water blast when hauled and a sander over thicker build ups of paint. Again the different colours of each layer is helpful.

Application is dependent on how smooth your copper infused epoxy resin is. If it gets the wet and dry treatment to enhance the copper it could be too smooth to take the antifoul. I think it may need a rougher sand to give the hull some texture to get the paint to stick or try a 2 pack epoxy tie coat which I used from wattyl when I did a gelcoat strip and epoxy reseal 15 years ago. It feels like shark skin when cured.

Hope my experience is useful for you.

It was dirty

I think its a waste of energy keeping the hull clean in the water without proper antifoul paint. If copper powder in epoxy was effective ships and commercial vessels would be using it. A guy next to me with a flybridge cruiser at a slipway was on his back wet and dry sanding his hull to revitalise the copper powder in his epoxy. It looked a horrible job and he had the advantage of speed to keep the barnacles away unlike our slower displacement yachts. So my advice is to go back to antifouling paint.

I have used prop speed but it only lasts a year and relies on the prop spinning to shed any growth. I made a bag for my folding prop 8 months ago that I can slip on and off easily using a painters pole. It works really well so I will never paint my prop again!

Thank you guys so much for all your help. It looks like it will be an ablative paint called vivid (3 cotes). I will rapport how many months will keep it on before another go. I hope 24 months. I will use prop one for prop and shaft.
Thanks guys

Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

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Ambler said..
I think its a waste of energy keeping the hull clean in the water without proper antifoul paint. If copper powder in epoxy was effective ships and commercial vessels would be using it. A guy next to me with a flybridge cruiser at a slipway was on his back wet and dry sanding his hull to revitalise the copper powder in his epoxy. It looked a horrible job and he had the advantage of speed to keep the barnacles away unlike our slower displacement yachts. So my advice is to go back to antifouling paint.

I have used prop speed but it only lasts a year and relies on the prop spinning to shed any growth. I made a bag for my folding prop 8 months ago that I can slip on and off easily using a painters pole. It works really well so I will never paint my prop again!

How does the bag you made, protect the folding prop from from growth?

Put a chlorine tablet in it

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cammd said..
Put a chlorine tablet in it

Corrosive?

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blackrocksteve said..
Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

Well, good point! Got in touch with coppercote in England and based on my location they got me a number of a person who is working with coppercote (Cockatoo Island marina).Spoke with him today and he knows the boat and previous owner. From memory he used a special material pad every year to expose a new copper dust in the paint. He told me it's not a sand paper. According to his memory boat has few more years of scribing before new applications should be done. Will let him do the job and when time comes he will reapply another 6 cotes of coppercotes so apart of lightly scrubbing it and changing the anode every 12 months I should be problems free for another 15 years. This sounds good. No more experiments with paint, toxins and what not.
I just don't understand why every single boat owner does not think the same? Must be a catch. Why so much hard work every 12 months and expenses ( paint and so on when coppercote if applied properly can last 15 plus years). In addition, Helpel made a product called Silca one and it is even better than coppercote and no toxic at all. Let's hope that silicon based will became a standard so we can keep our seas biocide and copper free. Happy new year my dear friends and family.

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Serb1980 said..

blackrocksteve said..
Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

Well, good point! Got in touch with coppercote in England and based on my location they got me a number of a person who is working with coppercote (Cockatoo Island marina).Spoke with him today and he knows the boat and previous owner. From memory he used a special material pad every year to expose a new copper dust in the paint. He told me it's not a sand paper. According to his memory boat has few more years of scribing before new applications should be done. Will let him do the job and when time comes he will reapply another 6 cotes of coppercotes so apart of lightly scrubbing it and changing the anode every 12 months I should be problems free for another 15 years. This sounds good. No more experiments with paint, toxins and what not.
I just don't understand why every single boat owner does not think the same? Must be a catch. Why so much hard work every 12 months and expenses ( paint and so on when coppercote if applied properly can last 15 plus years). In addition, Helpel made a product called Silca one and it is even better than coppercote and no toxic at all. Let's hope that silicon based will became a standard so we can keep our seas biocide and copper free. Happy new year my dear friends and family.

You do realise that the boat will need to be lifted every twelve months or so to revitalise the coppercote and replace the anodes, unless of course you find a diver that actually knows how to do it properly.

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UncleBob said..

Serb1980 said..

blackrocksteve said..
Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

Well, good point! Got in touch with coppercote in England and based on my location they got me a number of a person who is working with coppercote (Cockatoo Island marina).Spoke with him today and he knows the boat and previous owner. From memory he used a special material pad every year to expose a new copper dust in the paint. He told me it's not a sand paper. According to his memory boat has few more years of scribing before new applications should be done. Will let him do the job and when time comes he will reapply another 6 cotes of coppercotes so apart of lightly scrubbing it and changing the anode every 12 months I should be problems free for another 15 years. This sounds good. No more experiments with paint, toxins and what not.
I just don't understand why every single boat owner does not think the same? Must be a catch. Why so much hard work every 12 months and expenses ( paint and so on when coppercote if applied properly can last 15 plus years). In addition, Helpel made a product called Silca one and it is even better than coppercote and no toxic at all. Let's hope that silicon based will became a standard so we can keep our seas biocide and copper free. Happy new year my dear friends and family.

You do realise that the boat will need to be lifted every twelve months or so to revitalise the coppercote and replace the anodes, unless of course you find a diver that actually knows how to do it properly.

Of course, but it will take less time and save some money on paint, even stand I can only stay for 3 hours instead of all weekend. On long run (10 years) it will save few bucks which I can use to buy new batteries and anything else that comes up.
Happy new 2024

Gday Serb

The reason not everyone uses Copper in epoxy is because not everyone has good results with it. Two of my friends have done it and their boats need constant rubbing, like every 3 weeks. It works for some people but not others. If it worked as well as Coppercoat says, and everyone had positive reviews I would have done it too, but my friends recommend me not to. I don't see antifouling as a pain. It is a chance every 18 months to get close and personal with the boat, to check every square centimetre of her hulls and inspect her up close. I also get to do some other work that always needs doing that can't be done on the water, but I am not in Sydney and have the ability to go to a slip that lets me do the work myself. Sydney boatyard practice is far different from how it was when I started slipping boats in the early 80s and not in a good way.

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BeamReach said..

Ambler said..
I think its a waste of energy keeping the hull clean in the water without proper antifoul paint. If copper powder in epoxy was effective ships and commercial vessels would be using it. A guy next to me with a flybridge cruiser at a slipway was on his back wet and dry sanding his hull to revitalise the copper powder in his epoxy. It looked a horrible job and he had the advantage of speed to keep the barnacles away unlike our slower displacement yachts. So my advice is to go back to antifouling paint.

I have used prop speed but it only lasts a year and relies on the prop spinning to shed any growth. I made a bag for my folding prop 8 months ago that I can slip on and off easily using a painters pole. It works really well so I will never paint my prop again!

How does the bag you made, protect the folding prop from from growth?

I pull the drawstring tight and it traps the water in around the prop. For anything like barnacles or weed to grow there needs to be nutrients in the water. I don't see any need to put anything like chlorine in the bag, I reckon it becomes dead water in the bag in no time.

Select to expand quote

Ambler said..

BeamReach said..

Ambler said..
I think its a waste of energy keeping the hull clean in the water without proper antifoul paint. If copper powder in epoxy was effective ships and commercial vessels would be using it. A guy next to me with a flybridge cruiser at a slipway was on his back wet and dry sanding his hull to revitalise the copper powder in his epoxy. It looked a horrible job and he had the advantage of speed to keep the barnacles away unlike our slower displacement yachts. So my advice is to go back to antifouling paint.

I have used prop speed but it only lasts a year and relies on the prop spinning to shed any growth. I made a bag for my folding prop 8 months ago that I can slip on and off easily using a painters pole. It works really well so I will never paint my prop again!

How does the bag you made, protect the folding prop from from growth?

I pull the drawstring tight and it traps the water in around the prop. For anything like barnacles or weed to grow there needs to be nutrients in the water. I don't see any need to put anything like chlorine in the bag, I reckon it becomes dead water in the bag in no time.

Interesting.

Select to expand quote

Serb1980 said..

blackrocksteve said..
Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

Well, good point! Got in touch with coppercote in England and based on my location they got me a number of a person who is working with coppercote (Cockatoo Island marina).Spoke with him today and he knows the boat and previous owner. From memory he used a special material pad every year to expose a new copper dust in the paint. He told me it's not a sand paper. According to his memory boat has few more years of scribing before new applications should be done. Will let him do the job and when time comes he will reapply another 6 cotes of coppercotes so apart of lightly scrubbing it and changing the anode every 12 months I should be problems free for another 15 years. This sounds good. No more experiments with paint, toxins and what not.
I just don't understand why every single boat owner does not think the same? Must be a catch. Why so much hard work every 12 months and expenses ( paint and so on when coppercote if applied properly can last 15 plus years). In addition, Helpel made a product called Silca one and it is even better than coppercote and no toxic at all. Let's hope that silicon based will became a standard so we can keep our seas biocide and copper free. Happy new year my dear friends and family.

I would take this course of action if I already had copper coat on my boat. If the results are poor you can always apply anti foul at a later date. Fingers crossed it works, keep us posted.

Select to expand quote

Serb1980 said..

blackrocksteve said..
Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

Well, good point! Got in touch with coppercote in England and based on my location they got me a number of a person who is working with coppercote (Cockatoo Island marina).Spoke with him today and he knows the boat and previous owner. From memory he used a special material pad every year to expose a new copper dust in the paint. He told me it's not a sand paper. According to his memory boat has few more years of scribing before new applications should be done. Will let him do the job and when time comes he will reapply another 6 cotes of coppercotes so apart of lightly scrubbing it and changing the anode every 12 months I should be problems free for another 15 years. This sounds good. No more experiments with paint, toxins and what not.
I just don't understand why every single boat owner does not think the same? Must be a catch. Why so much hard work every 12 months and expenses ( paint and so on when coppercote if applied properly can last 15 plus years). In addition, Helpel made a product called Silca one and it is even better than coppercote and no toxic at all. Let's hope that silicon based will became a standard so we can keep our seas biocide and copper free. Happy new year my dear friends and family.

I would take this course of action if I already had copper coat on my boat. If the results are poor you can always apply anti foul at a later date. Fingers crossed it works, keep us posted.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Serb1980 said..

blackrocksteve said..
Why don't you use your 5kg epoxy paint and 3kg copper dust mixture.?.??

Well, good point! Got in touch with coppercote in England and based on my location they got me a number of a person who is working with coppercote (Cockatoo Island marina).Spoke with him today and he knows the boat and previous owner. From memory he used a special material pad every year to expose a new copper dust in the paint. He told me it's not a sand paper. According to his memory boat has few more years of scribing before new applications should be done. Will let him do the job and when time comes he will reapply another 6 cotes of coppercotes so apart of lightly scrubbing it and changing the anode every 12 months I should be problems free for another 15 years. This sounds good. No more experiments with paint, toxins and what not.
I just don't understand why every single boat owner does not think the same? Must be a catch. Why so much hard work every 12 months and expenses ( paint and so on when coppercote if applied properly can last 15 plus years). In addition, Helpel made a product called Silca one and it is even better than coppercote and no toxic at all. Let's hope that silicon based will became a standard so we can keep our seas biocide and copper free. Happy new year my dear friends and family.

I would take this course of action if I already had copper coat on my boat. If the results are poor you can always apply anti foul at a later date. Fingers crossed it works, keep us posted.

Ok will do. Well I spent 3 months in Europe and boat didn't move for that period of time. before the trip I moved the boat every 5 days for an hour and slime would disappear. Boat was flying. Anyway once out and sanded back to copper it will be ok.

Antifouling update!!!!

Applied 3 coats of Jotun Sea guardian 7 September 2023. Dived on the boat last weekend and covered with small barnacles. Boat is used (moved) regularly average once a week since painting.
Can anyone recommend a good hull cleaner diver who will carefully clean the bottom. The guy i used previously has retired.