Hi all

Yesterday I went for a sail in my mates new to him boat

We had about 15 to 20 knots of breeze and there were 3 of us onboard and we were out for around 5 hours

My mate who owned the boat was steering it beautifully but was constantly working the main sheet as well as the wind speed fluctuated

I thought this was a bit strange but it didn't mention it as I thought he was just trying to get the best boat speed out of the boat as the boat was designed as a racer and is quite fast and will turn on a dime

When we were coming back he asked me if I wanted to steer and initially I left the main alone as I would on my Sailmaster but I found as the wind increased and decreased it was almost impossible to keep the boat on a constant course without working the main sheet and to be hones we me at the helm we were all over the place as I struggled to steer and work the sheet at the same time

It is amazing how different this was to my Sailmaster where the thing will track along in a strait line without to much effort from the helmsman regardless of what the wind is doing

I guess when you look at the two boats out of the water you could see that they would handle differently but I was amazed at just how much more effort was needed on the smaller but quicker racer

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Hi all

Yesterday I went for a sail in my mates new to him boat

We had about 15 to 20 knots of breeze and there were 3 of us onboard and we were out for around 5 hours

My mate who owned the boat was steering it beautifully but was constantly working the main sheet as well as the wind speed fluctuated

I thought this was a bit strange but it didn't mention it as I thought he was just trying to get the best boat speed out of the boat as the boat was designed as a racer and is quite fast and will turn on a dime

When we were coming back he asked me if I wanted to steer and initially I left the main alone as I would on my Sailmaster but I found as the wind increased and decreased it was almost impossible to keep the boat on a constant course without working the main sheet and to be hones we me at the helm we were all over the place as I struggled to steer and work the sheet at the same time

It is amazing how different this was to my Sailmaster where the thing will track along in a strait line without to much effort from the helmsman regardless of what the wind is doing

I guess when you look at the two boats out of the water you could see that they would handle differently but I was amazed at just how much more effort was needed on the smaller but quicker racer

Regards Don

G'day Don,

been following your comments for some time, very perceptive and constructive, thank you.

with regards to your mates boat needing constant adjustment of the main sheet, think the answer is can be seen in the out of water profiles you posted.

The racer skeg and rudder combination coupled with the extra forward mounted mast and long foot of the main look like giving the boat a very small margin for "balance", on your boat the long keel, mast position and foot length seem to be more balanced. Giving more margin for 'wandering" before the effect is felt on the tiller.

Going on a limb here, I bet your mate's boat kept on dropping off the wind needing you to make adjustments back up on to the wind.

Your boat looks to be better balanced giving positive luff heading into the wind on gusts , ie. sails like a sail boat should.

Just a thought from your comments and images posted.

Safe sailing,

From memory what was happening is that as the wind increased it would want to come up to the wind and I would try to bear away using the tiller but all this did was give a heap of weather helm (but with no change of course) and slow the boat down where as he would let some main sheet out an hold the same speed and course

Regards Don

I use to sail on a Dufour 34 racing in Pittwater. Pretty quick but a horrid boat that would round up uncontrollably in gusts around 12-15kts. We had a person (me) constantly on the main sheet to dump it when a gust started to hit. Just woeful, almost unsailable.

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Donk107 said..
From memory what was happening is that as the wind increased it would want to come up to the wind and I would try to bear away using the tiller but all this did was give a heap of weather helm (but with no change of course) and slow the boat down where as he would let some main sheet out an hold the same speed and course

Regards Don

That keel and rudder would stall out easily. That's the sort of boat that would be better reefing early.

Hi

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Ramona said..

Donk107 said..
From memory what was happening is that as the wind increased it would want to come up to the wind and I would try to bear away using the tiller but all this did was give a heap of weather helm (but with no change of course) and slow the boat down where as he would let some main sheet out an hold the same speed and course

Regards Don

That keel and rudder would stall out easily. That's the sort of boat that would be better reefing early.

Hi Ramona

We had 2 reefs in further down the river when it was blowing a bit harder but when I had a steer it had moderated a bit and we were back to a full main

I had a bit of a google today on this and the common information this seems to suggest that if I wasn't prepared to work the traveller or main sheet I should have steered into the wind before it started to round up instead of trying to bear away as it was happening so perhaps I will try that next time

My other mate who was with us who is a experienced dinghy and yacht sailer seemed to think it is pretty well behaved but commented that you need to sail it more like a big dinghy than a keel boat

Regards Don

My two bobs worth..... With a sports boat like that you need to de power the main via dumping traveler or mainsheet in gusts if you don't you will be on your ear. Basically sail on the headsail and then power the main up as gust passes. it is also possible to flatten the main via vang,out haul,Cunningham so that its totally flat and point way up high go fast and be stable.....but this all comes down to the boat design,conditions,jib-slot and crew!

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southace said..
My two bobs worth..... With a sports boat like that you need to de power the main via dumping traveler or mainsheet in gusts if you don't you will be on your ear. Basically sail on the headsail and then power the main up as gust passes. it is also possible to flatten the main via vang,out haul,Cunningham so that its totally flat and point way up high go fast and be stable.....but this all comes down to the boat design,conditions,jib-slot and crew!

Hi Southace

The funny thing about it is it didn't heel that much (nowhere near as much as I have experienced on other boats) before rounding up and the rounding up was not severe at all

On other boats I have sailed on the rounding up has almost bought the boat to a standstill whereas on this one it was more like I had steered it too high but I know that the tiller was trying to point it in the other direction

Regards Don

Basically when it's all balanced by sail controls and crew it should sail on a knife edge to windward......well that's how I try to sail boats including my 1926 timber full keeler. Where where you guys all sitting? On the windward beam ?

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southace said..
Basically when it's all balanced by sail controls and crew it should sail on a knife edge to windward......well that's how I try to sail boats including my 1926 timber full keeler. Where where you guys all sitting? On the windward beam ?

2 of us were sitting on the windward side and the owner was standing in the cabin with his head sticking out of the hatch pissing himself laughing because I couldn't get it to sail in a straight line

I said I was not to worried because anyone who was watching from shore (there are always plenty of people watching from their homes at Port Huon) would think it was him steering all over the place as it was his boat

Regards Don

You should always have the main sheet or traveller in hand in Tasmania .....end of story Donk!

Use to sail against the "fatbox" as she was known many years ago in JOG class, she was built to exploit the jog rule, not as a sports boat, some of Tassies best sailers have had a go at getting her to perform, but never quite lived up to expectations, but saying that she's not a bad boat and has come through some big blows when she was raced in jogs in the eighties.
would be good donk if you get a pic of her back on to show the guys what they did with the design.

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riverider said..
Use to sail against the "fatbox" as she was known many years ago in JOG class, she was built to exploit the jog rule, not as a sports boat, some of Tassies best sailers have had a go at getting her to perform, but never quite lived up to expectations, but saying that she's not a bad boat and has come through some big blows when she was raced in jogs in the eighties.
would be good donk if you get a pic of her back on to show the guys what they did with the design.

Can do as she is on a mooring across the road

Here is a couple from the advert

Regards Don

Taking the tiller without taking the main sheet control is ummmmm well now someone's saying the design is fraud Could I suggest fitting a new rudder blade? Other than that No more help from me!

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southace said..
You should always have the main sheet or traveller in hand in Tasmania .....end of story Donk!

Hi Southace

My Sailmaster seems to be very forgiving in this regard

In a big gust (well as big as I have experienced on her to date) she will heel and dip the rail under but keeps sailing straight without any drama

I went for a sail with a mate who has a Doven 30 a few weeks ago and he commented that in the conditions we were sailing in his Doven would have been rounding up in the gusts

Regards Don

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southace said..
Taking the tiller without taking the main sheet control is ummmmm well now someone's saying the design is fraud Could I suggest fitting a new rudder blade? Other than that No more help from me!

To be honest I didn't think that the conditions were bad enough at the time to warrant letting the main out

I am not saying it is a bad design but that it just has different sailing characteristics to my larger, heavier and slower boat

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..

southace said..
Taking the tiller without taking the main sheet control is ummmmm well now someone's saying the design is fraud Could I suggest fitting a new rudder blade? Other than that No more help from me!

To be honest I didn't think that the conditions were bad enough at the time to warrant letting the main out

I am not saying it is a bad design but that it just has different sailing characteristics to my larger, heavier and slower boat

Regards Don

Just face it donk your old girl must be well balanced! It also takes time to work out each boats sweet spot. Obviously your time on the tiller on your mates boat was not given...or perhaps some guidance rather than laughter wouldn't have gone astray!

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southace said..

Donk107 said..

southace said..
Taking the tiller without taking the main sheet control is ummmmm well now someone's saying the design is fraud Could I suggest fitting a new rudder blade? Other than that No more help from me!

To be honest I didn't think that the conditions were bad enough at the time to warrant letting the main out

I am not saying it is a bad design but that it just has different sailing characteristics to my larger, heavier and slower boat

Regards Don

Just face it donk your old girl must be well balanced! It also takes time to work out each boats sweet spot. Obviously your time on the tiller on your mates boat was not given...or perhaps some guidance rather than laughter wouldn't have gone astray!

Hi Southace

He was telling me between laughing to let the main out and I was telling him I am not capable of doing two things at once and that his boat was dodgy

Regards Don

Haha mate if someone give you control of the boat from there on you have control! Yell orders! Take the main sheet it's your life line! Dump or sheet on...I prefer to do it all myself but if you have a good main sheet hand they will know the balance......bit like guitar and drummer playing inTime!

I love to motor my little yacht on a calm day and leave the tiller and move to the balance point around midships. From there using my little body weight I can steer the boat.....I then put that to use when my beer gusling mates come out.

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southace said..
Haha mate if someone give you control of the boat from there on you have control! Yell orders! Take the main sheet it's your life line! Dump or sheet on...I prefer to do it all myself but if you have a good main sheet hand they will know the balance......bit like guitar and drummer playing inTime!

Didn't actually think about doing that although I think they were both too busy laughing at me trying to keep the thing sailing straight

Regards Don

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riverider said..
Use to sail against the "fatbox" as she was known many years ago in JOG class, she was built to exploit the jog rule, not as a sports boat, some of Tassies best sailers have had a go at getting her to perform, but never quite lived up to expectations, but saying that she's not a bad boat and has come through some big blows when she was raced in jogs in the eighties.
would be good donk if you get a pic of her back on to show the guys what they did with the design.

Here is a couple of it floating







Regards Don

I bet she gets up and boogies, especially with a kite.

H

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cisco said..
I bet she gets up and boogies, especially with a kite.

Hi Cisco

She doesn't hang around

The owner is going race her when the season starts here in late September so it will be interesting to see how she performs compared to the rest of the fleet

Regards Don