Hi, I am new to sailing and want to buy my own boat that I can go coastal and ocean cruising on. I have been reading up on a lot of different types of boats but there are just so many and some I am just unable to find out if they are suitable for ocean going. What are some good ocean going sail boats?

You might want to narrow it down a bit by giving an idea of size, budget and what you intend to do with it.

Top Hat...... people rave about them and sail them around the world......

This is some of the things I looked for in a boat with similar plans in mind ie living aboard and going on extended cruising.

A strong stiff hull, I opted for West system composite construction because I wanted an epoxy boat if possible but Aluminium and solid fibreglass were on the table. Steel is obviously very very strong I am just scared of dealing with rust.
A moderate displacement hull with a deep vee forward so she wouldn't pound to windward and so she would sit in the Ocean not on top of it but still not be very heavy
Also I didn't want a large internal volume to get thrown around in but I did want a boat that would sail nicely and be able to go to windward when required.
No windows in the actual hull and no big windows on the coachhouse but I did want enough portlights and hatches to allow for good ventilation.
Low aspect keel of moderate draft, around 2 mtrs give or take 0.2 with a very substantial connection to the hull in terms of the size and number of bolts and the structure the bolts were connected to.
Skeg hung rudder for strength and protection but also the skeg to assist the way the hull tracks.
Shaft drive
Good access to machinery, actually good access to everything, I didn't want internal linings, I would rather be able to see and access everything.
Keel stepped mast
Cutter rig was high up the list for all the sail options available and the ease of handling smaller headsails instead of one big one.
Easy sail handling systems like lazy jacks, furlers, stack packs, reefing lines etc
I wasn't specifically looking for a centre cockpit but I ended up with one and no regrets, distance from the companionway to all the controls in minimal and your surrounded by high combings and lots of deck so it feels very protected. A hard dodger was also a want to have.
Substantial tankage for fuel and water
I only wanted a single head and one master cabin and accomodation for occasional guests plus a central sea berths
I also wanted something in the 40 to 45ft range so that it could be sailed easily by two without massive loads or the need for power winches but still large enough to be a comfortable live aboard, and all within fixed budget



Other things that were on the list but less important because they could be added were stuff like a water maker, genset, hot water tank, chart plotter etc etc


When I put all that together the list of available boats dropped dramatically and it got a lot less confusing

"Tell him the price son"????

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welsh said..
"Tell him the price son"????

Apart from size a Top Hat will tick off quite a bit on that list whereas a brand new Beneteau or Hanse may not.

Just depends how committed - Moore 24 anyone around the world
GANNET in the Indian Ocean 1 - YouTube

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cammd said..
This is some of the things I looked for in a boat with similar plans in mind ie living aboard and going on extended cruising.

A strong stiff hull, I opted for West system composite construction because I wanted an epoxy boat if possible but Aluminium and solid fibreglass were on the table. Steel is obviously very very strong I am just scared of dealing with rust.
A moderate displacement hull with a deep vee forward so she wouldn't pound to windward and so she would sit in the Ocean not on top of it but still not be very heavy
Also I didn't want a large internal volume to get thrown around in but I did want a boat that would sail nicely and be able to go to windward when required.
No windows in the actual hull and no big windows on the coachhouse but I did want enough portlights and hatches to allow for good ventilation.
Low aspect keel of moderate draft, around 2 mtrs give or take 0.2 with a very substantial connection to the hull in terms of the size and number of bolts and the structure the bolts were connected to.
Skeg hung rudder for strength and protection but also the skeg to assist the way the hull tracks.
Shaft drive
Good access to machinery, actually good access to everything, I didn't want internal linings, I would rather be able to see and access everything.
Keel stepped mast
Cutter rig was high up the list for all the sail options available and the ease of handling smaller headsails instead of one big one.
Easy sail handling systems like lazy jacks, furlers, stack packs, reefing lines etc
I wasn't specifically looking for a centre cockpit but I ended up with one and no regrets, distance from the companionway to all the controls in minimal and your surrounded by high combings and lots of deck so it feels very protected. A hard dodger was also a want to have.
Substantial tankage for fuel and water
I only wanted a single head and one master cabin and accomodation for occasional guests plus a central sea berths
I also wanted something in the 40 to 45ft range so that it could be sailed easily by two without massive loads or the need for power winches but still large enough to be a comfortable live aboard, and all within fixed budget



Other things that were on the list but less important because they could be added were stuff like a water maker, genset, hot water tank, chart plotter etc etc


When I put all that together the list of available boats dropped dramatically and it got a lot less confusing

So the answer for you was?

At the end of the day I think the captain has more to do with blue water ability than the type of yacht. They talk about mechanical sympathy with race car drivers and how drivers like Allan Moffat were able to get a big fat GTHO Falcon with pathetic brakes around Bathurst quickly without cooking the brakes or tyres. Whatever boat you get you need to understand it's limitations. Bill Hatfield, an octogenarian who recently circumnavigated nonstop the wrong way in a Northshore 38 like mine, circumnavigated in his younger days with a family in a Triton 24.
Maybe I would prefer to be in a Triton 24 in extreme conditions than a new Beneteau with thin flat hull areas which smash and pound into seas and a relatively light keel anchorage.
You need to know your boat and it's weaknesses and don't pound into seas if it has flat hull sections or a rig prone to pump.
I keep thinking it would be nice to have a larger boat than my Northshore 38 but as I find myself single handing a lot of the time (effectively whether my wife is on board or not) I keep coming to the conclusion that I would have difficulty handling a bigger rig with bigger headsails and also I would have extreme difficulty picking up a mooring in windy conditions if the boat were heavier or was a high freeboard caravan with more windage (ie any recentish Bavaria, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Dufour, Hanse...

As mentioned a Tophat would be an excellent and economical choice if the small internal size of a 25 footer is OK. Not going to be as fast as fin keel designs however. Can't have everything :(.

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julesmoto said..

cammd said..
This is some of the things I looked for in a boat with similar plans in mind ie living aboard and going on extended cruising.

A strong stiff hull, I opted for West system composite construction because I wanted an epoxy boat if possible but Aluminium and solid fibreglass were on the table. Steel is obviously very very strong I am just scared of dealing with rust.
A moderate displacement hull with a deep vee forward so she wouldn't pound to windward and so she would sit in the Ocean not on top of it but still not be very heavy
Also I didn't want a large internal volume to get thrown around in but I did want a boat that would sail nicely and be able to go to windward when required.
No windows in the actual hull and no big windows on the coachhouse but I did want enough portlights and hatches to allow for good ventilation.
Low aspect keel of moderate draft, around 2 mtrs give or take 0.2 with a very substantial connection to the hull in terms of the size and number of bolts and the structure the bolts were connected to.
Skeg hung rudder for strength and protection but also the skeg to assist the way the hull tracks.
Shaft drive
Good access to machinery, actually good access to everything, I didn't want internal linings, I would rather be able to see and access everything.
Keel stepped mast
Cutter rig was high up the list for all the sail options available and the ease of handling smaller headsails instead of one big one.
Easy sail handling systems like lazy jacks, furlers, stack packs, reefing lines etc
I wasn't specifically looking for a centre cockpit but I ended up with one and no regrets, distance from the companionway to all the controls in minimal and your surrounded by high combings and lots of deck so it feels very protected. A hard dodger was also a want to have.
Substantial tankage for fuel and water
I only wanted a single head and one master cabin and accomodation for occasional guests plus a central sea berths
I also wanted something in the 40 to 45ft range so that it could be sailed easily by two without massive loads or the need for power winches but still large enough to be a comfortable live aboard, and all within fixed budget



Other things that were on the list but less important because they could be added were stuff like a water maker, genset, hot water tank, chart plotter etc etc


When I put all that together the list of available boats dropped dramatically and it got a lot less confusing

So the answer for you was?

In prior cammd post - brilliant yacht

RYD should have the rig drawing on file - you might have it in your documents from the previous owner. On that should be indicated the luff length of the kites recommended. Or you could scale from the dwg included at the below link.

www.radford-yacht.com/dsn053/dsn053S44.html

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julesmoto said..
At the end of the day I think the captain has more to do with blue water ability than the type of yacht.

True but we are not born with that ability we have to earn it and for myself and the author of this thread, selecting a boat that will be easily handled and will look after us and be forgiving while we gain that ability is a good decision and good seamanship is founded on good decisions.

I can think of a couple of occasions in +30knots where, to quote Captain Jack Aubrey, I have been a bit "lubberley" in getting in reefs or trimming sails etc and Wapiti has just waited patiently for me to get my act together. That builds confidence.

Totally agree and I swore I would never get another boat with a bolt on keel but in the end I got sick of looking and Northshore yachts do have a very good reputation and I was looking very carefully when it came up on the slings for any sign of any hairline cracks between the keel and the hull.

Totally agree and I swore I would never get another boat with a bolt on keel but in the end I got sick of looking and Northshore yachts do have a very good reputation and I was looking very carefully when it came up on the slings for any sign of any hairline cracks between the keel and the hull.

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r13 said..

julesmoto said..

cammd said..
This is some of the things I looked for in a boat with similar plans in mind ie living aboard and going on extended cruising.

A strong stiff hull, I opted for West system composite construction because I wanted an epoxy boat if possible but Aluminium and solid fibreglass were on the table. Steel is obviously very very strong I am just scared of dealing with rust.
A moderate displacement hull with a deep vee forward so she wouldn't pound to windward and so she would sit in the Ocean not on top of it but still not be very heavy
Also I didn't want a large internal volume to get thrown around in but I did want a boat that would sail nicely and be able to go to windward when required.
No windows in the actual hull and no big windows on the coachhouse but I did want enough portlights and hatches to allow for good ventilation.
Low aspect keel of moderate draft, around 2 mtrs give or take 0.2 with a very substantial connection to the hull in terms of the size and number of bolts and the structure the bolts were connected to.
Skeg hung rudder for strength and protection but also the skeg to assist the way the hull tracks.
Shaft drive
Good access to machinery, actually good access to everything, I didn't want internal linings, I would rather be able to see and access everything.
Keel stepped mast
Cutter rig was high up the list for all the sail options available and the ease of handling smaller headsails instead of one big one.
Easy sail handling systems like lazy jacks, furlers, stack packs, reefing lines etc
I wasn't specifically looking for a centre cockpit but I ended up with one and no regrets, distance from the companionway to all the controls in minimal and your surrounded by high combings and lots of deck so it feels very protected. A hard dodger was also a want to have.
Substantial tankage for fuel and water
I only wanted a single head and one master cabin and accomodation for occasional guests plus a central sea berths
I also wanted something in the 40 to 45ft range so that it could be sailed easily by two without massive loads or the need for power winches but still large enough to be a comfortable live aboard, and all within fixed budget



Other things that were on the list but less important because they could be added were stuff like a water maker, genset, hot water tank, chart plotter etc etc


When I put all that together the list of available boats dropped dramatically and it got a lot less confusing

So the answer for you was?

In prior cammd post - brilliant yacht

RYD should have the rig drawing on file - you might have it in your documents from the previous owner. On that should be indicated the luff length of the kites recommended. Or you could scale from the dwg included at the below link.

www.radford-yacht.com/dsn053/dsn053S44.html

Thanks. Presumably here too.
www.yachtandboat.com/listing/graham-radford-44/5068794/

Obviously it has turned out to be really good although insignificant numbers built and the timber construction would have scared me off.

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cammd said..

julesmoto said..
At the end of the day I think the captain has more to do with blue water ability than the type of yacht.

True but we are not born with that ability we have to earn it and for myself and the author of this thread, selecting a boat that will be easily handled and will look after us and be forgiving while we gain that ability is a good decision and good seamanship is founded on good decisions.

I can think of a couple of occasions in +30knots where, to quote Captain Jack Aubrey, I have been a bit "lubberley" in getting in reefs or trimming sails etc and Wapiti has just waited patiently for me to get my act together. That builds confidence.

So Cammd, what were the 3 boat manufacturers you narrowed it down to and what have you settled on?

Please fill us in?

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BeamReach said..

cammd said..

So Cammd, what were the 3 boat manufacturers you narrowed it down to and what have you settled on?

Please fill us in?

Sure thing BeamReach

Here is the three I was most interested in.

Radford 13.4 "Wapiti" (I Bought)

Lidgard 47 " Chance"(I got outbid on)


Sayer 11.6 "Belle" a well know racer converted to cruising

Thanks Cammd, you put alot of reseach and thought into it..I have seen that Radford, a nice cruiser.I wasn't quite sure you bought it.
What keel boats have you owned leading up to the Radford and where are you going cruising?
Thanks, Mike.

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BeamReach said..
Thanks Cammd, you put alot of reseach and thought into it..I have seen that Radford, a nice cruiser.I wasn't quite sure you bought it.
What keel boats have you owned leading up to the Radford and where are you going cruising?
Thanks, Mike.

I had a 26ft swing keel yacht before having kids, Electric 26, never seen one since and cannot find anything about them, a couple of trailer sailers (RL24. Careel18, Jarcat) and otb dinghys and a pile of windsurfers, I still race windsurfers on a Saturday arvo.

Wapiti is the first "big" boat I have owned, I was widowed a few years ago so thought to myself, life is short chase the dream, so that led to a position where I had the means to buy a boat, could have bought an investment property or shares or something smart but I didn't, I bought a boat and plans are to rent the house sometime next year and move aboard, put a cruising kitty together and then go sailing. As far as destinations go, downwind somewhere or everywhere, see what happens.

Thanks for the reply Cammd. Sorry to hear your loss and you are correct in saying life is too short. Chasing the dream is a good choice, You don't want to leave this World, wondering What If??

Enjoy the boat and where it takes you. Happy and Safe Sailing.

Cheers, Mike.

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lydia said..
Just depends how committed - Moore 24 anyone around the world
GANNET in the Indian Ocean 1 - YouTube

Yes, and a Moore 24 is a gin-palace when compared to Webb Chiles first world-cruise in an open, Drascombe Lugger. As you say: committed. I'd also add, a willingness to put up with a fair bit of discomfort. Meanwhile Webb has circumnavigated 6 times, while many delay and save for that perfect "blue water" cruising boat.

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duncansayers said..

lydia said..
Just depends how committed - Moore 24 anyone around the world
GANNET in the Indian Ocean 1 - YouTube

Yes, and a Moore 24 is a gin-palace when compared to Webb Chiles first world-cruise in an open, Drascombe Lugger. As you say: committed. I'd also add, a willingness to put up with a fair bit of discomfort. Meanwhile Webb has circumnavigated 6 times, while many delay and save for that perfect "blue water" cruising boat.

About 2009, met a couple with a Van de Stadt Forna, I had a 43, in Hobart.
They had come across the Southern Ocean from Patagonia.
They said they had left Germany about 4 years earlier and the boat had wind generator, diesel generator, water maker, heaps of the supposed required gear.
They said every major stop they had sent gear including all of the above back to Germany.
The boat was quite stripped down by Hobart.
Clearly knew one a thing or two.

Select to expand quote

lydia said..

duncansayers said..

lydia said..
Just depends how committed - Moore 24 anyone around the world
GANNET in the Indian Ocean 1 - YouTube

Yes, and a Moore 24 is a gin-palace when compared to Webb Chiles first world-cruise in an open, Drascombe Lugger. As you say: committed. I'd also add, a willingness to put up with a fair bit of discomfort. Meanwhile Webb has circumnavigated 6 times, while many delay and save for that perfect "blue water" cruising boat.

About 2009, met a couple with a Van de Stadt Forna, I had a 43, in Hobart.
They had come across the Southern Ocean from Patagonia.
They said they had left Germany about 4 years earlier and the boat had wind generator, diesel generator, water maker, heaps of the supposed required gear.
They said every major stop they had sent gear including all of the above back to Germany.
The boat was quite stripped down by Hobart.
Clearly knew one a thing or two.

You can fully appreciate why sailors like Roger Taylor and his small MingMing philosophy gets it. He by all means is not unique, practical minded sailors like Hal Roth, Pardeys and the Hiscock's preached this simple message about everything being reliable and maintainable by yourself. This wisdom and messaging is being lost in the youtube Patreon era of cruisers. How can you get a message through when everything is being peddled by influencers trying to make a quid by selling something to support their lifestyles.

Can't imagine why you would remove a wsternaker, for some philosophical ideological purity? I assume it's not to save weight.

I will keep the abundant fresh water and all the luxury and safety that it provides, may as well keep the hot water tank and pressure pumps while I am at it.

Maybe 2 litres a day person for 6 weeks coming west at 40 south.
Two people, so under 200 litres.
All depends.
Our fridges use about 4 amps north of 25 S in summer and 1 amp south of 40 S
Depending on how many times it gets open for a beer of course.
Beer is now isolated in a different beer only fridge.