Hello tigers, just watched a documentary on a young lady who went sailing around the world 12 years ago on S&S34. On documentary that boat looked solid as a double brick wall.
Now I have met a gentleman who is the owner of the S&S 39 and he told me that in a year or two he will be selling it. I am aware that S&S 39 is a vary rarely seen boat for sale. My question to you all, if that boat is in fairly condition would it be a better investment than a serial produced boat like Jeanneau 36 or something like Catalina 42?

Jeanneau, Bavaria, Benetau, Hense they are modern and wonderfully looking boats but I have feeling that quality in not the same as S&S39 and even price wise they might not keep the value as Sparkman and Stephenson in the future.
I am really confused when it comes to understanding why some boats even 40 years old cost more than 12 years old Jeanneau for example. When I show the picture of the Jeanneau to my wife she is all in but when I show her s&s39 she says it's old and it must stink inside..????

I personally like quality build boats and If I have billions I would definitely buy Hallberg Russy sailing boat but if S&S 39 in just a third of HR that will do for me.
Any opinion how one can compare a serial production modern boat with an old S&S39 and can they even be compared. Am I underestimating the modern boats like Bavaria, Elan and like? Or maybe just in love with boats built in Australia with their own characters inherited from Peter Cole, Lexon, Joe Adams and many legendary boat designers.. Does it really matter in 2023?Thank you for your patience, I am still learning and your opinion is greatly appreciated. Before I buy bigger boat I must take into consideration all possible factors. It will be easy to get rid off small Tasman completely rebuild with new carbon sails but 40f boat doesn't sell that easy and fixing cost is a bit of a different story from little Adams Tasman 26 where everything can be fixed with a simple screwdriver.
Thanks Fellows

It will depend entirely on what SS39 you are referring to. I personally would love to own one and should have bought Mark Twain when she was a bit run down and very cheap. Next time she appears on the market it will be a different story! SS39's do come on the market occasionally but they vary a lot in condition and asking prices. Also there are stock boats and one offs. I'm sure we have listers here that own one and will comment shortly.

Fantastic classic old boat. Below is an extract from an S&S 39 currently for sale. What are your future sailing plans?
'But everything in boat design and construction is a tradeoff. The low windage rendered by Pachuca's low freeboard means that she is a wet boat by contemporary boating standards. The performance and stability of her hull form results in less space below deck. However, the simplicity of her interior means that all of her equipment, cabling, plumbing, etc can be accessed with relative ease.

Those interested in club racing, coastal cruising, and well planned cruises into the trade wind areas will understandably be attracted to the modern popular contemporary boats. This S&S 39 will be of interest to those looking for a medium size and easily managed boat for ocean racing or perhaps cruising beyond latitude 50 or any ocean crossing. Pachuca is a proven sea boat that has circumnavigated the world and rounded Cape Horn.'

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Bananabender said..
What are your future sailing plans?


Those interested in club racing, coastal cruising, and well planned cruises into the trade wind areas will understandably be attracted to the modern popular contemporary boats. This S&S 39 will be of interest to those looking for a medium size and easily managed boat for ocean racing or perhaps cruising beyond latitude 50 or any ocean crossing. Pachuca is a proven sea boat that has circumnavigated the world and rounded Cape Horn.'

As bananabender said, in a nutshell, what do you want the boat for, coastal cruising with your family in tropical locations or Ocean racing and offshore adventures to remote locations in wild places.

Answer yourself that question first, that will clear up a lot of the confusion. When you know what you want it for you can then apply filters

As your first filter you could consider displacement ie
Offshore/longterm cruising - moderate to heavy
Coastal cruiser/racer - Light to moderate
racer- ultralight

Second filter might be construction methods ie
no ferro cement or steel etc etc

third may be length, fourth budget, 5th age, 6th location etc etc etc, it will soon narrow down to a small field of suitable boats

plucky did a good video on sailboat ratio's recently, worth a look

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Serb1980 said..

When I show the picture of the Jeanneau to my wife she is all in but when I show her s&s39 she says it's old and it must stink inside..????

If you want an understanding wife and continue to sail with her, then your question is already answered....

Note: You may have to alter your ambitions to suit.

Thanks guys. What I want is to take my family to Batman's bay moored there for a week and come back in more safely and comfortable manner, but in the same time be able to get my 100k back in 10 years time when my kids tell me off and a sailing boat would mean nothing to them.

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Ramona said..
I personally would love to own one and should have bought Mark Twain when she was a bit run down and very cheap. Next time she appears on the market it will be a different story! SS39's do come on the market occasionally but they vary a lot in condition and asking prices. Also there are stock boats and one offs. I'm sure we have listers here that own one and will comment shortly.

Ramona, here is a shot that I took of Mark Twain as she was getting ready for the S2H at Blairgowrie a few years ago. There was quite a bit of work going on at the time, but she looks good in the photo. I recall that at one stage in the S2H before a major weather changer she was performing quite well on handicap. Pity we haven't seen here back, I wonder what she is up to now ?

Looking back I don't think they were asking for very much compared to the one on the market right now.

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Ramona said..
I personally would love to own one and should have bought Mark Twain Andrew68 said..

Ramona, here is a shot that I took of Mark Twain as she was getting ready for the S2H at Blairgowrie a few years ago.

Press release from back then: www.smh.com.au/sport/sailing/the-ichi-ban-of-1971-mark-twain-sets-sail-again-20181224-p50o3h.html and the RSHYR entry data here: rolexsydneyhobart.com/the-yachts/2018/mark-twain/?raceId=113&SeriesId=2

Now showing as owned by Murray Spence.

I reckon that Jon Sanders knows a bit about boats. He's got one. Perie Banou 2 [ Parry Endeavour]..After sailing around the world in his SS34 multiple times he said he would like something a bit bigger that is still managable single handed. He bought theSS39. He also mentioned that somewhere in the 40ft.. 10 ton displacement range would be ideal...just to have a bit of size and boomfa when things got a little lively...and of course a lot more room down below than his famous 34' Perie Banou.... He has recently just come back from another circumnavigation in it..he was taking water samples to test the amount of PLASTIC in the worlds oceans for scientific research...he's 83yrs old now and still sailing solo....... an absolute living legend..... Id have a SS39 in a heartbeat if I could.....

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Serb1980 said..
Thanks guys. What I want is to take my family to Batman's bay moored there for a week and come back in more safely and comfortable manner, but in the same time be able to get my 100k back in 10 years time when my kids tell me off and a sailing boat would mean nothing to them.

Up and down the coast any production boat will be fine so go with what your wife wants.
Any boat you get of that size will cost you an extra 100 grand over 10 years and if you spend that on maintenance and renewal/repairs you may get your original money (but not maintenance/updates/renewals/repairs) back depending upon the economy at the time.
If you don't spend that and let everything get old then you probably won't get your money back.
A Jenneau will cost you way more than 100000 and newer boats depreciate faster just like cars.

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Andrew68 said..

Ramona said..
I personally would love to own one and should have bought Mark Twain when she was a bit run down and very cheap. Next time she appears on the market it will be a different story! SS39's do come on the market occasionally but they vary a lot in condition and asking prices. Also there are stock boats and one offs. I'm sure we have listers here that own one and will comment shortly.

Ramona, here is a shot that I took of Mark Twain as she was getting ready for the S2H at Blairgowrie a few years ago. There was quite a bit of work going on at the time, but she looks good in the photo. I recall that at one stage in the S2H before a major weather changer she was performing quite well on handicap. Pity we haven't seen here back, I wonder what she is up to now ?

Looking back I don't think they were asking for very much compared to the one on the market right now.

Thanks for that. Mark Twain was for sale for sometime for $25,000 before being snapped up. I just could not get my wife to come around to the idea. There was a full fibreglass 39 for sale at Williamstown at the same time for just over 40 grand when most went for just over a 100 grand and above.

I am going to give a female perspective here. I have been on board an S and S 39 and also a Catalina 42. They are completely different boats. The S and S is a lovely boat to sail, looks gorgeous but is very different below to a Catalina 42. The Catalina is roomy, spacious and has all the mod cons, far easier to spend time on, has a massive cockpit and great access for boarding. I know of a few that have been brought out from America with no problem. They sail well but handle differently to an S and S as completely different hull shape. The S and S is narrower, the Catalina carries its width further aft. The truth is your wife is going to look at one of these and will be far happier than the S and S. Realistically, your budget is going to be the deciding factor. Oh one more thing, look at side access for going forward. The Catalina has great access forward, she may feel more comfortable with that than the S and S.

Also to keep in mind - Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau , Hanse, Catalina etc are all builders(who design in-house), but S&S are primarily designers - their designs are built by many different builders (in many countries).
As others have said generally discussing S&S in other posts, it's pretty hard to find more than a handful that are identical, tough as they are.
The euro production yachts are always the same, and it's often that feature of consistency that people are after, when in the used boat market.

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Serb1980 said..
Thanks guys. What I want is to take my family to Batman's bay moored there for a week and come back in more safely and comfortable manner, but in the same time be able to get my 100k back in 10 years time when my kids tell me off and a sailing boat would mean nothing to them.

Many boats, production, or one offs, will be safely able to take the family coastal sailing - in the hands of a competent sailor. Lots will be faster and more comfortable than an S&S in most conditions.

The money you get back is proportional to the money you invest in maintenance. If you buy a $50k boat and invest $50k over a decade in maintenance, you may sell her for $45k ten years later...
Very rough numbers, but you get the point(s).

Compared to the Olympic 40, the s&s 39 sails better to windward, but a bit more rolly downwind
Certainly a solid boat that I'd feel comfortable and confident taking into a heavy sea.
Built by Prestige Yachts in WA during summer so a great climate for laying glass. 1982 build.
Production boats are certainly more spacious but there's plenty of room for just the 2 of us + our staffie, and we find her very comfy. Price was a factor (as always) on buying her but at $70k, and the extra time and $ spent I'm pretty happy. Likely I'll be selling her in the next 12 months having completed our period of sailing and passage making.
She sails comfortably doing be an easy 8kn to windward flat water ( 15kn wind) and downwind double figures are constantly touched in a following sea at 20kn breeze. Any questions feel free to send a message

Hey serb
What ever you do dont show your wife this random add for a boat for sail

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/outremer-45/288702

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Serb1980 said..
Thanks guys. What I want is to take my family to Batman's bay moored there for a week and come back in more safely and comfortable manner, but in the same time be able to get my 100k back in 10 years time when my kids tell me off and a sailing boat would mean nothing to them.

My sister just spent a week at Batemans Bay (Valiant 40) on her way south to Tassie. As you can't get under the bridge anymore you have to stay in the bay. BB is a rough rolly anchorage. The week was forced by weather and felt like a month.

Modern boats are wonderful for living on and evening cocktails. That is where you will spend most of your time onboard.

On my Lord Howe rallies (it is called a Classic Rally so most are older boats) a few more modern boats usually came over. I don't remember which year, probably 2014 when we had the worst weather, one Catalina lost a window due to hull flexing and a Jeanneau suffered a bad knockdown. Not a big sample size but I have my doubts that some modern boats are suited to going offshore.

If you stick to the coast and run for shelter before bad weather I'd go modern. Just don't cock up the running for shelter up because you wouldn't want to be near land in severe weather trying to sort out a broken boat.

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saltiest1 said..
Compared to the Olympic 40, the s&s 39 sails better to windward, but a bit more rolly downwind
Certainly a solid boat that I'd feel comfortable and confident taking into a heavy sea.
Built by Prestige Yachts in WA during summer so a great climate for laying glass. 1982 build.
Production boats are certainly more spacious but there's plenty of room for just the 2 of us + our staffie, and we find her very comfy. Price was a factor (as always) on buying her but at $70k, and the extra time and $ spent I'm pretty happy. Likely I'll be selling her in the next 12 months having completed our period of sailing and passage making.
She sails comfortably doing be an easy 8kn to windward flat water ( 15kn wind) and downwind double figures are constantly touched in a following sea at 20kn breeze. Any questions feel free to send a message

I think this is currently on the Hacking? lovely boat!

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Watermark said..
I am going to give a female perspective here. I have been on board an S and S 39 and also a Catalina 42. They are completely different boats. The S and S is a lovely boat to sail, looks gorgeous but is very different below to a Catalina 42. The Catalina is roomy, spacious and has all the mod cons, far easier to spend time on, has a massive cockpit and great access for boarding. I know of a few that have been brought out from America with no problem. They sail well but handle differently to an S and S as completely different hull shape. The S and S is narrower, the Catalina carries its width further aft. The truth is your wife is going to look at one of these and will be far happier than the S and S. Realistically, your budget is going to be the deciding factor. Oh one more thing, look at side access for going forward. The Catalina has great access forward, she may feel more comfortable with that than the S and S.

Ummmm......it depends on your "female perspective" because as you know, there's more than one. My wife would go for an S&S over a Catalina but she'd prefer a J/ or X-Yacht over either of them because she's a keen performance sailor.

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MorningBird said..

Serb1980 said..
Thanks guys. What I want is to take my family to Batman's bay moored there for a week and come back in more safely and comfortable manner, but in the same time be able to get my 100k back in 10 years time when my kids tell me off and a sailing boat would mean nothing to them.

My sister just spent a week at Batemans Bay (Valiant 40) on her way south to Tassie. As you can't get under the bridge anymore you have to stay in the bay. BB is a rough rolly anchorage. The week was forced by weather and felt like a month.

Modern boats are wonderful for living on and evening cocktails. That is where you will spend most of your time onboard.

On my Lord Howe rallies (it is called a Classic Rally so most are older boats) a few more modern boats usually came over. I don't remember which year, probably 2014 when we had the worst weather, one Catalina lost a window due to hull flexing and a Jeanneau suffered a bad knockdown. Not a big sample size but I have my doubts that some modern boats are suited to going offshore.

If you stick to the coast and run for shelter before bad weather I'd go modern. Just don't cock up the running for shelter up because you wouldn't want to be near land in severe weather trying to sort out a broken boat.

BB is poor in a southerly but very nice in a NE or westerly, if you know where to go.

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Lenn said..

saltiest1 said..
Compared to the Olympic 40, the s&s 39 sails better to windward, but a bit more rolly downwind
Certainly a solid boat that I'd feel comfortable and confident taking into a heavy sea.
Built by Prestige Yachts in WA during summer so a great climate for laying glass. 1982 build.
Production boats are certainly more spacious but there's plenty of room for just the 2 of us + our staffie, and we find her very comfy. Price was a factor (as always) on buying her but at $70k, and the extra time and $ spent I'm pretty happy. Likely I'll be selling her in the next 12 months having completed our period of sailing and passage making.
She sails comfortably doing be an easy 8kn to windward flat water ( 15kn wind) and downwind double figures are constantly touched in a following sea at 20kn breeze. Any questions feel free to send a message

I think this is currently on the Hacking? lovely boat!

It is but not for much longer. Heading north and hopefully eventually Japan and onto British Columbia but the best plans are those never made.

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nbjs said..
I reckon that Jon Sanders knows a bit about boats. He's got one. Perie Banou 2 [ Parry Endeavour]..After sailing around the world in his SS34 multiple times he said he would like something a bit bigger that is still managable single handed. He bought theSS39. He also mentioned that somewhere in the 40ft.. 10 ton displacement range would be ideal...just to have a bit of size and boomfa when things got a little lively...and of course a lot more room down below than his famous 34' Perie Banou.... He has recently just come back from another circumnavigation in it..he was taking water samples to test the amount of PLASTIC in the worlds oceans for scientific research...he's 83yrs old now and still sailing solo....... an absolute living legend..... Id have a SS39 in a heartbeat if I could.....

Spied this one at Xmas time , I see it has the Aries Number 5 lift up on the stern .






A few years back , I'm sure I saw ss 39 Pachuca visiting the same mooring field

Thank legends.

Just politely,,, Jon Sanders boat Parry Endeavour was a Phil Curran design and not an SS 39 as often mistaken.
Parry Endeavour is located in the Fremantle maritime museum for all to see and rumour has it that the ss 34 Perie Banou is hidden away there too.

Parry Endeavour is a foam core hull .

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Jolene said..
Just politely,,, Jon Sanders boat Parry Endeavour was a Phil Curran design and not an SS 39 as often mistaken.
Parry Endeavour is located in the Fremantle maritime museum for all to see and rumour has it that the ss 34 Perie Banou is hidden away there too.

Parry Endeavour is a foam core hull .

The 34 is in a storage facility in Welshpool last I heard with its keel off and mast in 2 pieces. A bit of a tragedy.

It was quite a few years ago I was told the museum had it,,, that is a shame.

Museum still owns it but dont have the money or desire to do anything with it so it just sits there gathering dust.