First time I have had a stack pack type arrangement so wondering which of the two ways to arrive at four supports on the batten is preferable or if it matters?

Whilst I'm asking questions I've temporarily rigged both sides without cutting off any lines and one side has ended up with a substantial concavity between the top line and the aft most line whereas the other side has ended up much straighter on the way from the block on the spreader to the rear of the pack (both sides are pulled tight). Which is more desirable?
Finally do you guys sail with the bag substantially raised above the boom in which case I will probably have to stop the top foremost corner flapping by lashing it to the mast (there is a cringle there) or do you lower them substantially so that the bag lies below the boom and doesn't interfere with wind flow over the bottom of the sail?

There will be very little interference with the wind over the lower part of the sail. I use the four-point system in the photo. As soon as the sail is hoisted the lazyjacks are let off and the plastic pipe in the top edge just lays along the top edge of the boom. The rear is held up by the topping lift. The front of the stackpack has 4 or 5 clips around the mast and this holds the front up so the reefing lines and gooseneck are hidden. With this stackpack I finished the plastic tube just behind the mast so the cover stays close to the boom. Ramona had the plastic tubes up past the mast and that seemed to stick out a bit.

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Ramona said..
There will be very little interference with the wind over the lower part of the sail. I use the four-point system in the photo. As soon as the sail is hoisted the lazyjacks are let off and the plastic pipe in the top edge just lays along the top edge of the boom. The rear is held up by the topping lift. The front of the stackpack has 4 or 5 clips around the mast and this holds the front up so the reefing lines and gooseneck are hidden. With this stackpack I finished the plastic tube just behind the mast so the cover stays close to the boom. Ramona had the plastic tubes up past the mast and that seemed to stick out a bit.

Thank you for that picture. Mine has a piece that goes around the front of the mast and zips onto the bag each side which I presumed was intended to be removed whilst sailing. Anyway hopefully I'll get it all rigged tomorrow so that I can actually put the new sail on. I guess it will become obvious how it is meant to to be set up once I hoist the main. I should have had it all done yesterday but when I pulled tight on the lazy jacks to check for even tension on all lines a block broke because I am using the same old lazy jacks that were on the boat when I bought it (without a bag). All new lines and blocks now so should be good tomorrow.

I bundle the stack-pack sides and tie them together with 2 sail ties - below foot of main and above boom, taking care not to include any slack reefing lines. Lazies are then slackened or could be tied forward for a longer voyage. Very neat and still easy to reef. Important to be able to see what is going on when reefing.

I had a loose footed main and made my stack pack from my sail cover by stitching the lower edges together and unstitching the top join.

A bit of cutting and trimming then webbing strap sewn onto it where the lazy jacks attach except the lazys are not attached to the bag.

They are tied to the slugs in the boom. There is a stopper knot at the eyelets on the top of the bag adjusted so that the bag never carries the weight of the boom and sail even when the topper is let off. The bag will last longer that way.

There is a pvc tube each side but no zips or velcro. Just a simple flap sewn to one side wide enough to tuck down between the sail and other side of the bag to keep the sun off it. Cost me a couple of hundred all up.

Was going to make clip covers for the front and rear of the bag to keep bats and birds from nesting in the sail but the yacht got sold.

There are no zips on mine either. I got sick of replacing them and they were not cheap either from the local sailmaker! I use clips with flaps on the first metre at the top, the rest is just held together to keep the sun off. The straps hold the bag around the front of the mast and this allows the breeze to blow though at all times to allow the sail to dry. Mine is made from Weathermax which is fairly tough but each ring on the lazyjack is held buy 20mm webbing sewn around the bag next to a sail slug in the boom. Probably not needed but looks good. I stole the idea after studying an expensive unit on one of the local yachts!
With the lazyjacks slack it's easy to see whats going on when reefing from the cockpit.

Thanks for the ideas guys. Turns out the foot on my new main is too long (plus the bag too short) plus the slides are a joke (look like adequate for a 20 footer)so it might be a while till I try out the bag while sailing. What a friggin nightmare. Wish I bought a second hand sail from sail exchange.

What a pita, guess you have double checked the measurements on the plan

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julesmoto said..
Thanks for the ideas guys. Turns out the foot on my new main is too long (plus the bag too short) plus the slides are a joke (look like adequate for a 20 footer)so it might be a while till I try out the bag while sailing. What a friggin nightmare. Wish I bought a second hand sail from sail exchange.

Perfect time to gather the bits and make your own. When I brought Ricochet down from Sydney I stitched up a stackpack out of shade cloth just for the trip. I would never go to sea without a stackpack/lazyjack system ever again sailing solo.

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woko said..
What a pita, guess you have double checked the measurements on the plan

Yes finally located the email with 15 pictures of the various lengths and setbacks with tape measures up against them so clearly not my fault despite the fact that the sailmaker has not conceded this yet. Even had the Hyde to send me a short video sewing lesson as he missed out a slide on the boom bag web. Turns out the whole damn thing is too short anyway.

Stack pack aside your going to have to have your new sail recut.

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woko said..
Stack pack aside your going to have to have your new sail recut.

Yep and no sailing for a while. Extremely annoying. I better be getting some apologies and offer to do the work for free as otherwise it's name and shame as well as legal proceedings time. Absolutely disgusting attitude of sailmaker right from the time that he told me sail bags were extra after I had already paid. The workmanship on the $1350 sail bag is hopeless with parts zipped together not being of the same length... the whole thing being too short, missing slides... so I'm not looking forward to looking at the shape of the sails when I can actually use them. I can't even put the main up on the first reef to bypass the oversized foot) he has put the eyes in the wrong place for the (horns) reefing system I have which was clearly visible in the pictures I sent him and also (setback) measured and discussed.

Still need to work out how I am going to secure the front end of the bag from flapping around uncontrollably whilst sailing as it extends a good foot or more in front of the batten. His answer is to leave the front part on and zipped around the front of the mast the whole time but of course there is no way I can reef like that even with my single line back to cockpit reefing system as I have to put the tac over the horns. This is quite apart from manipulating the height of the spinnaker/jockey pole.

He reckons I should ditch my single line reefing system so I can leave the front of the bag attached at all times including reefing. He reckons on his boat he has a luff reefing line passed through the reefing eye on ONE side of the sail only with a knot in the other side. This line is then passed down through a padeye on one side of the mast just below and in front of the gooseneck and then around turning blocks back to the cockpit. He reckons then cut the horns off. The system does require affixing a padeye to the mast and an additional turning block and clutch but ignoring chafe on the bag might allow the front of the bag to remain about the front of the mast whilst sailing. Comments on this reefing arrangement please. Seems to me the reefing line should at least pass through the reefing eye and down to a corresponding eye on the other side of the mast but then friction between eye and line would become a problem. Pretty big main with 13.7 luff and 5.1 foot.

The first thing I did when I got Ricochet home was cut off the reefing horns!

If the foot is too long they will have to recut the leech. How much too long? Then thats just not the same sail? You have moved the draft % and maximum. It may not be much and its not a race sail. BUT it is a new sail that you paid good money for. If the inboard reef eyes are in the wrong spot as well it will be a patchwork in that area. You may find the leech just isn't right once its been recut or the sail dosnt set nicely when reefed.
Have you checked full hoist?
I know there are some sailmakers on here so interesting to see what they say.
If you have evidence in the email with pics and measurements and the sail isn't close to those measurements, in more than 1 spot as well. I would say give it back and ask for a new one.
Again someone else can probably chip in about consumer law in Australia.
I wouldn't touch the sail or do anything to it until you decide what action to take.
Get the email and measurements and measure the sail. Take photos of the new sail and measurements etc. Make a list of the changes that need to be made. Including the bag!
Send it all to the sailmaker and ask what they propose.

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tarquin1 said..
If the foot is too long they will have to recut the leech. How much too long? Then thats just not the same sail? You have moved the draft % and maximum. It may not be much and its not a race sail. BUT it is a new sail that you paid good money for. If the inboard reef eyes are in the wrong spot as well it will be a patchwork in that area. You may find the leech just isn't right once its been recut or the sail dosnt set nicely when reefed.
Have you checked full hoist?
I know there are some sailmakers on here so interesting to see what they say.
If you have evidence in the email with pics and measurements and the sail isn't close to those measurements, in more than 1 spot as well. I would say give it back and ask for a new one.
Again someone else can probably chip in about consumer law in Australia.
I wouldn't touch the sail or do anything to it until you decide what action to take.
Get the email and measurements and measure the sail. Take photos of the new sail and measurements etc. Make a list of the changes that need to be made. Including the bag!
Send it all to the sailmaker and ask what they propose.

Thank you for that. He is proposing cutting 100mm from the foot (of a 5.1 meter foot sail) tapering up to the first batten. Do you think that alone would be enough to compromise the shape of the sail? Would it perhaps be preferable to rivet on some type of headboard thing rather than tapering right up to the first batten.

If its a cross cut sail, 100mm wont make any difference overall. Does he mean the top batten?
To the top batten would be a good fix, if its the first up from the foot then thats a pretty poor way to do it.
As for the reef eyes and horns, the eye rarely goes direct onto the horn, there it usually some kind of strop involved.
with the boom bag, some one piece bags have a zip for reefing access.
Im a sailmaker, sometimes mistakes happen unfortunately.

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stray said..
If its a cross cut sail, 100mm wont make any difference overall. Does he mean the top batten?
To the top batten would be a good fix, if its the first up from the foot then thats a pretty poor way to do it.
As for the reef eyes and horns, the eye rarely goes direct onto the horn, there it usually some kind of strop involved.
with the boom bag, some one piece bags have a zip for reefing access.
Im a sailmaker, sometimes mistakes happen unfortunately.

Thank you very much for that

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stray said..

As for the reef eyes and horns, the eye rarely goes direct onto the horn, there it usually some kind of strop involved.
.

Something like these. Easy to get on and off the reefing horns