Hi Everyone,

I am new here, and this is my first post. I did a fair search to check if others had similar threads to mine.

I have a boat that I am about to keep in Sirius cove in Sydney. As I am paranoid that something will happen to it, and I work in IT, I thought I would put my skills to use and I built a small low power computer that monitors my boat and alerts me if anything is going wrong.

I assumed that there were already things like this on the market, but the other day I showed it to another boat owner and he insisted that I install one on his boat. So I thought I would see if anyone else was interested and ask a few general questions.

It runs on a waterproof quad core single board computer.

It powered from the main or aux battery. There is also a Voltage Detection Module which runs from the 12v battery that is used to measure the battery level of the main battery. A second Voltage Detection Module can be installed for an aux battery if required.

Currently, I am using a usb webcam as a camera, this isn't necessary but I like to over engineer things. But it is good to have if the motion sensor gets triggered.

It has a GPS receiver which reports back location to the monitoring interface, and also can alert via SMS or email if the boat moves out of a defined zone. Currently that zone is a set thing on build, but if people are interested I can add the option of changing the zone to be variable.

It also has a fuel level sensor, 3 float switches which measure if water is present in the bilge, 2 relays for turning on bilge pumps, these are programmed to come on if water detected obciously and the history of operation is recorded. I then have a third automatic pump that sits higher as a backup.

It has 2 motion sensors, these detect motion and alert via sms. Water Temperature Probe, Wind speed and direction is currently read from local weather channels. But could be read from the boat.

It connects to the www with a 4G modem, but can connect to an existing Wifi network if one exists. It doesn't use much data unless you leave the site up, then it uses a little bit for the camera, but not a lot. You would need to provide your own sim card and pay the data bill.

The Questions.
1. Is anyone interested in these?
2. Any suggestions for improvements?
3. How much would one expect to pay for something like this, a setup as complex as mine would cost about $500 to put together. Prices get a lot cheaper for monitoring simple things like water in the hull only.
4. Are people more interested in a kit that you install yourself, or an installed system.

You get to it from any web browser and it looks like this.



Regards,

LJ

www.blueray.com.au/

here is another option:

www.trektransponder.com.au/page1.php

your web-based interface looks good, but it raises the question of what internet infrastructure does it depend on? does it rely on servers that you manage? the concern for me is that this adds another layer where things can malfunction, or go offline. also, users are then dependent on those servers being managed into the future.

one thing i like about Trek's system is that i think it directly SMS'es you from the unit itself, and doesn't rely on any other internet infrastructure...

No, only one piece of hardware. The interface is hosted off the device. Nothing else to manage. To access all you need to do is go to the ip address of the device, this of course will change as it is 4g and fixed IPs are expensive on 4g. So it sms's new ip addresses when they update.

This also SMS's from the unit itself.

okay, so the unit runs it's own web server? is it running a variant of Linux, or something else? how do software updates work?

Yes, it is running a 64 bit arm variant of linux. Would you really need to update the OS? I mean, I could just turn on landscape, which would update automatically based on a schedule I define but is that really important?

having dealt with a lot of tech stuff in the past, i'm just thinking aloud about maintenance, support, upgrades, and bugfixes...

Having administered Linux servers for the last 15 years, I'm positive this won't be an issue.

The question is:

If I bought one, and If you were run over by a bus tomorrow - would it still work?

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fishmonkey said..
here is another option:

www.trektransponder.com.au/page1.php

your web-based interface looks good, but it raises the question of what internet infrastructure does it depend on? does it rely on servers that you manage? the concern for me is that this adds another layer where things can malfunction, or go offline. also, users are then dependent on those servers being managed into the future.

one thing i like about Trek's system is that i think it directly SMS'es you from the unit itself, and doesn't rely on any other internet infrastructure...

HI Fishmonkey, thanks for mentioning my invention It originated when I bought my Martzcraft 35 and it kept trying to sink because of dodgy seacocks. You are right about the infra structure. We chose SMS MMS as a system over internet but first checked out reliability of both - SMS versus Internet. SMS is FAR better and cheaper. The providers attempt to maintain 99.999% up time and argue about how many 9's. Internet goes down all the time - ask Telstra.

People ask me about making a Trek version using Wifi. But that doesnt work unless theres a Wifi server in range. In a marina there sometimes is but when your boats on a swing mooring I dont think so! Then if you actually use your boat and go to a different marina you have to find out its Wifi name, password to use it and sometimes pay a fee. Everytime. What a pain.

Theres also SMS retention/retry. If an alarm SMS doesn't reach its destination the sender (boat) will keep trying to send it for a period maybe a day. Depends on provider. So if by chance an alarm SMS doesnt get through first time it will sooner or later. Not so with the net. It has to work then and there usually. Hence the 99.999% reliability that gets quoted for SMS

And its cheaper - If you put the same provider SIM card in the Trek as in your hand phone chances are the SMS's are free too. Virgin to Virgin is for 6 month blocks. Thats what I use. I think Aldi have the same deal - not sure

Also Net based systems are far heavier on power which is not good on a battery powered yacht or cruiser. The Trek Transponder needs 0.02A. The best net system we could imagine came up as way over 0.1A. The significance of that is Trrek battery life is x5 longer. At least.

I have Trek system,its relatively simple and it works. I wouldn't want something relying on an O/S.
You don't need anything as complex.

The biggest drama with other systems I looked at is power consumption, not everyone is on 240V in a marina.

The drawback for Trek system (which I am sure Trek is working on), it current 3G network.
Aldi is finished, and I am on borrowed time on remaining network that will support Trek transponder.

A new sim is underway but I believe power demand is higher.
Trek, any updates?

Hi Crusty ... the 3G 4G unit is on my desk while software is finalized which is a big job. Its funny, the software has to be complicated to make the unit simple! here's a secret pic.

this will be the Christmas tree version.

Will the led's be selectable to turn off as currently (save power)?
Twin bilge alarm good idea for cats, but I have no bilges.
Optional keyfob entry: you mean, no twin commands needed to disarm anymore?

Can more than one command be entered in one sms (scan relay and arm?)

Did I have a stutter earlier? The box sends an SMS message without relying on 4G or 3G internet, from the unit itself. Unless you are using some sort of magical sms system that I haven't heard of, we are using the same networks.

The web interface simply gives you the ability to log in and look at data coming off the boat.

Can I just ask, what is the price of the Trek if I just want to monitor my battery level, GPS location and Motion on the Boat?

Hi Gridlockc
I'm not sure if you had a stutter or not, and probably should have apologised for adding to the further drift of this thread.
As it was your first post here originally, i'm sure you should have been welcomed etc to the forum.
But it does seem maybe an ad would help Laurie along and you were looking for a market.
Nothing wrong with requesting some feedback from potential customers, but lets hold hands first.

There are other products available, such as that made by other forum members here.
I was following the general discussion, and you may see some of it useful to compare to your product.

I appreciate that. But rather than assume the system is flawed because it isn't the system you went with, maybe everyone should look at it with an open mind. I understand that the trek is a good unit, but it is also an expensive unit. And the fact that people would start with the "If you fell under a bus argument" without knowing anything about the product is just insulting. All the code will be open source, hosted on a repo online. If I fell under a bus, it would still be available in 20 years.

The fact of the matter is, I have a device that is capable of doing the same amount of stuff, and more. It works on the same network, but gives you the ability to actually look at the cockpit to verify the alarm you are seeing and it starts at 1/5th the price of the next available unit on the market. Why did everyone jump to assumptions and try to shoot it down.

And just so you all are aware, I wasn't looking at making a profit off this, I just wanted to offer a solution for people with less funds and a possible way to write my boat off on tax . For me to make a living off these at the price I was looking for I would need to sell over a thousand units a month, and lets face it, the thought of boxing up a thousand of these a month makes me cringe when I could just as easily sit at a desk and fix servers in data centres on the other side of the planet.

Well done, I just lost interest.

gridloc dont give up just because of comments. if you design anything sooner or later someone will question it. Ive been explaining for a year why the trek isnt on wifi! Try a peer review sometime. Your visible interface looks nice. re the sms, the network hardware is the same as for the net now but the software servers and structure are different. Price? cheapest model $475. re the leds you can command them off. all versions also have the option of no leds.

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Gridlok said..
I appreciate that. But rather than assume the system is flawed because it isn't the system you went with, maybe everyone should look at it with an open mind. I understand that the trek is a good unit, but it is also an expensive unit. And the fact that people would start with the "If you fell under a bus argument" without knowing anything about the product is just insulting. All the code will be open source, hosted on a repo online. If I fell under a bus, it would still be available in 20 years.

The fact of the matter is, I have a device that is capable of doing the same amount of stuff, and more. It works on the same network, but gives you the ability to actually look at the cockpit to verify the alarm you are seeing and it starts at 1/5th the price of the next available unit on the market. Why did everyone jump to assumptions and try to shoot it down.

Well done, I just lost interest.

for the record, i'm not trying to shoot you down, just trying to find out more details.

i think maybe you are taking the bus-death comment the wrong way. future support is a valid concern for any tech device, so it's a fair question. at this point, you know your device inside out. we started off knowing almost nothing.

also, when a brand new user turns up on a forum talking about a product, most times it is spam of some kind, so people do tend to be a bit wary on that front.

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Trek said..
gridloc dont give up just because of comments. if you design anything sooner or later someone will question it. Ive been explaining for a year why the trek isnt on wifi! Try a peer review sometime. Your visible interface looks nice. re the sms, the network hardware is the same as for the net now but the software servers and structure are different. Price? cheapest model $475. re the leds you can command them off. all versions also have the option of no leds.

I think I will just put my code on github with a list of parts needed to build it. If there is someone who benefits from it, then yay, if not... no harm done.

sorry Gridlock, but I thought from the questions you posted originally wanted to get some feedback and an idea as to how you should price it.

As someone who has shelled out already, my own responses:
The Questions.
1. Is anyone interested in these?
Yes, the market wasn't flooded with options when I last checked.
2. Any suggestions for improvements?
Maybe figure out who your main market would be. If it those like me on a swing mooring, power is an issue. Whatever you can do to ensure low draw would be an improvement.
3. How much would one expect to pay for something like this, a setup as complex as mine would cost about $500 to put together. Prices get a lot cheaper for monitoring simple things like water in the hull only.
I think you are in the ballpark. Price isn't the main thing for me, it has to be reliable, and a simple system in use.
4. Are people more interested in a kit that you install yourself, or an installed system.
Install yourself. I expect most owners would like to run much of the setup themselves, so it's done "properly'" and to help save some $$. We will have to fault find it, so it makes sense to install it yourself.
Overall, anything that goes on my boat has to be simple, reliable and something I can look after.

Good luck with whatever you are seeking to achieve.
I respect anyone having a go, but maybe be prepared to take comments from all sides when you are putting yourself or your product out there on the market.

Ps I thought Seabreezers are pretty chilled, typical Australian laid back and willing to give anyone a go.
Post the same on an Anarchy site and see how our American friends respond.?

Hi Grilock,
I like your set up and I think a self install kit would be best.
I don't have a boat on a mooring yet but when I do I certainly will be looking for something like this, keep up the great work.
Cheers

I'd love a simple low-power system for moored boats. Basically I want to know whether it is sinking or drifting; nothing else is necessary.