all good guys i work in construction/engineering i'm pretty use to criticism on any level, i'm a big believer in the 10th man

But very good point Cisco, i had these concerns to when i sketched up this design, the reason i went ahead with it is the witch is design that all weight is to sit on the keel, the rollers are purely there for stability, the original design of the slide bars worked like that too actually, i do plan on placing a keel roller at the front about 1' in front of the keel.

if i find it starts to be an issue ill be able to install a third roller in on each side with the yacht insitu easy enough, and there is plenty of space to fit more rollers in under the existing rollers.


also peoples thought, should i fit a hand winch to the front? or an electric one? or none? :)

how steeps are the ramps in WA Stuman?
Seeing where the waterline is, I'm surprised they can be launched and pulled out afterward, but of course they must be able to.

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southace said..
It's his boat Cisco not your loadass 9.5 let him be with the final product!

Just trying to be helpful.

Where would I be morally if I saw he was headed for a disaster and did not at least mention it??

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Stuman92 said..

also peoples thought, should i fit a hand winch to the front? or an electric one? or none? :)

For the sake of saving your hands I think having a winch is a good idea. A hand winch can be turned into an electric one by simple putting a pulley wheel on the input shaft and belting it to a second hand starter motor from the auto wreckers bolted onto your upright.

Try one of these first, cheap enough, and see how it goes.

www.whitworths.com.au/manual-trailer-winch-4-1

Well hopefully not destruction, seeing as there's many yachts out there with only 4 rollers.
In regards to the starter motor idea not bad, might use something else though as the dc draw would ruin a battery very quickly. Torque wise a drill sized motor would be more than adequate. Potentially just leave a 1/2" drive and use a cordless drill, one of my Makita drills has 125nm which would be plenty.
Or I just down $100 on an electric winch and fit an sla battery to the front.

There are plenty of ramps to my knowledge, as the witch was designed as a trailer sailed for Perth there are plenty of options around.

Hey HG hill and co who made the red witch made a catamaran called a red baron, that could be my next project instead of two witches.

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Stuman92 said..
Well hopefully not destruction, seeing as there's many yachts out there with only 4 rollers.
In regards to the starter motor idea not bad, might use something else though as the dc draw would ruin a battery very quickly. Torque wise a drill sized motor would be more than adequate. Potentially just leave a 1/2" drive and use a cordless drill, one of my Makita drills has 125nm which would be plenty.
Or I just down $100 on an electric winch and fit an sla battery to the front.

There are plenty of ramps to my knowledge, as the witch was designed as a trailer sailed for Perth there are plenty of options around.

Hey HG hill and co who made the red witch made a catamaran called a red baron, that could be my next project instead of two witches.

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Stuman92 said..
Well hopefully not destruction, seeing as there's many yachts out there with only 4 rollers.
In regards to the starter motor idea not bad, might use something else though as the dc draw would ruin a battery very quickly. Torque wise a drill sized motor would be more than adequate. Potentially just leave a 1/2" drive and use a cordless drill, one of my Makita drills has 125nm which would be plenty.
Or I just down $100 on an electric winch and fit an sla battery to the front.

There are plenty of ramps to my knowledge, as the witch was designed as a trailer sailed for Perth there are plenty of options around.

Hey HG hill and co who made the red witch made a catamaran called a red baron, that could be my next project instead of two witches.

The Red Baron is a bit of a slug. Aldi had the electric boat winch on sale recently. These days items like these are so cheap!

Unfortunately aldi hasn't opened in WA yet.
But there's plenty on eBay. Just trying to decide if Its worth having an electric or just put some elbow grease in and get a manual.

Thoughts on these two electric winches?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-2000LBS-907kg-Detachable-Portable-Electric-Winch-Marine-Boat-4WD-ATV-/400745955422?hash=item5d4e52005e

www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wireless-3000LBS-12V-Steel-Wire-Cable-Electric-Winch-Remote-ATV-4WD-Boat-Truck-/390457328300?hash=item5ae91202ac


i prefer the 3000lbs one as it can be properly secured and has the wireless remote.
their both pretty cheap when you consider a manual one is $40.

for running them id probably install a 12v 9ah sla battery ( should be good for 3-4 minutes solid winching) into a abs enclosure and maybe fit a tiny solar panel and 20amp regulator, that way it will always be charged and ready to go.

Just looking at your trailer I would suggest putting some carpeted guides to get the keel into position.

As for a winch, I used to sail at SoPYC where alot of keel boats were trailer launched with either a rope or solid trailer extension and very few of them use a winch. most just a manual winch as with the trailer as deep as it will need to be you tend to float a keel boat onto the trailer anyway.

Cheers runblefish
Out of curiosity do you have any picture examples of the carpet runners?

Yeah I'm thinking manual winch then, it has a solid trailer extension for launching the yacht, adds an extra 2m to the trailer.

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Ramona said..

Aldi had the electric boat winch on sale recently. These days items like these are so cheap!

To date I have bought a torch, tablet, cordless drill and a camera from Aldi all of which have failed or not performed as expected. The warranty/return process is too much to be bothered with. I just won't buy anything electrical there anymore.

Something like these white pieces but I would do them at less angle to the keel. Looking at your trailer, one either side @ 30deg to straight. Can just be steel wleded to the back of your trailer keel box with carpet covering them.

I've been reading your topic with great interest as I had a red witch for over 10 years - an absolutely fantastic fun (though wet boat) which can handle any condition thrown at it And is extremely forgiving. You are doing a fantastic job of renovation on the trailer. I sailed mainly from Mandurah and raced in Perth, and Albany in the red witch titles for a few years.
just a few comments on my experiences which may help with your trailer.
The yacht is a float off, float on the trailer type- in other words I don't think you would find winches or rollers of any value.
in launching I would tie a rope to the trailer (it appears you have a swing out tow bar extension which should work in most cases) and vehicle to get the trailer as far into the water to float the boat, pull the pin from the front and retreive with a line tied to the boat.
in retrieving, it was basically the same with submerging the trailer until the eye at the front of the trailer was the same height as the eye on the boat to slide the pin in. Both retrieving and launching was a wet job - but that's what crew is for ( although mine always seemed to disappear at this point??.
Two things you may find handy to include on your trailer is
1) a tube either side of the side mounts of your trailer to help align the boat to the trailer as you bring it in and also to climb on board
2) guides at the base of the trailer to align the keel.
In regards to 2 you already have these in place but you may find you need to extend these higher and flare them. I would try using what you have and if they work then leave them as they are.
remember the ramps in WA vary in both steepness and clarity of water and when the trailer is in the water fully submerged you can't see a thing. Plenty of times I would have to feel with my feet if the keel was lined up.
Keep up the great work and keep posting the results - you won't regret the boat.

great work stuman
here is my recent elec winch story
very rewarding
www.trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12221&start=75
see latter discussiion

Solid draw bar extensions usually work pretty well. The only times I have had problems is when the ramp is two planes and the section into the water is steep. The draw bar extension bottoms out on the apex until the tow vehicle gets on the same plane as the trailer and if under enough load, things can bend. The rope works better in that situation. You also have to watch the trailer doesn't drop off the end of the ramp, If that happens its better to have a solid draw bar extension. Some trailers have skids to protect the mudguards in case that happens.
Might see you over at Rotto in the very near future. Nice work BTW

Hi Stuman,

That trailer looks fantastic. I like the idea of a solid extension bar to maintain control of the trailer (better than a rope), but there are some shallow ramps around the river that will mean the extension won't be long enough to get your trailer deep enough.

I also like the idea of the tail at the end of the trailer to stop the boat from tipping over backwards. I've seen that happen to a couple of Witches and my mate was nearly seriously injured when he tried climbing over the transom of his boat on the hard stand after some rain and the boat upended on him and dumped a cockpit full of water over him!

Come down to Nedlands Yacht Club sometime. We have about a dozen Red Witches lined up on the hard stand and you can have a look at their trailer setup.

I'm not sure that any of them have a winch fitted as they tend to submerge the trailer and sail the boat right on to it - so no winching required.

BTW - I don't sail a Witch, but my boat is in the same class, so I race against them.

Mike

Cheers for the picture Rumblefish

look like a good idea, as it looks easy enough to add one at any point i might keep it as is for now and see how i go.
i will be adding the upper rollers soon which will be beneficial for lining it up in the ramp.

i will be fitting it with a rope point too the idea is that it will be able to work in any ramp environment, as some ramps are a bit precarious with just rope whilst as mentioned some ramps work great with extension bars.

Mike the main reason i added the anti tip bar is because within 5 minutes of the yacht being at mine a mate who will remain nameless jumped up at the stern causing it to tip back.

In other news im thinking about redesigning the axle to route around the front of the keel as im not sure if im happy with the "solidness" of the flex axle.

in regards to the winch ill leave it for now as it can always be added later.

cheers for all the hints everyone, probably going to try and focus on that axle over the next few days, unfortunately away for work in the middle of the week so that will slow it down.

anybody had any experience with "indirect" axles.

Here's a quick sketch of the new axle design, Thoughts?

Should clear everything nicely

Back in town. hopefully going to get that new axle all together tomorrow.
in regards to winches anyone have any thoughts on put the winch on the back of the car, ie a reese hitch mounted winch? mechanical or electrical?

You're doin' a great job Stuman. I don't really think you need a winch on your draw-bar as you'll probably yuse the solid bar most times.
I have a 12000lb version of this one on my RL28 trailer and it is the best thing ever,gets my boat up about as fast as madmissions and my hubs don't get wet.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/251525752707?limghlpsr=true&hlpht=true&ul_noapp=true&hlpv=2&chn=ps&lpid=107&ops=true&viphx=1
Keep up the good work and pictures

Had a senior moment there. What I meant to say is that my winch mounts on the trailer-post the same way as the hayman reece tow bar ,so I can take it off when I leave the trailer at the ramp for a few days or mount it in the tow-bar if I want to go bush bashing or something.

Cheers lloydyboy53

yeah going to forget about the winch for now maybe after a bit of use ill revisit it,
ive decided to go with a different axle, going to make a gull wing one and go under the main beam, so ill probably have to notch the chassis.

just going to use 40mm box section same as before. hopefully post pics soon.

New Gullwing axle is all built (may have slightly over engineered it). where i had to notch the chassis i may add some fly braces for additional strength. should be fine without it but we shall see.

ive also had a third roller on each side and an adjustable height center roller.
hopefully put it all back together this afternoon just need to lathe up 2 new rollers.

Awesome job Stuman

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Stuman92 said..
New Gullwing axle is all built (may have slightly over engineered it). where i had to notch the chassis i may add some fly braces for additional strength. should be fine without it but we shall see.

ive also had a third roller on each side and an adjustable height center roller.
hopefully put it all back together this afternoon just need to lathe up 2 new rollers.

Looking forward to a photo of the axle. I've made drop axles before and I can not see why your set up would not work. The spring and plates will be supporting the unit pretty much. What material are you turning the rollers out of?

Hey Ramona

axles done, fits up nicely too, just got it off drying currently,


The Gull wing clears the ground by about 125mm (so nice and legal)
the original ground clearance was 140mm

Nice job.

Not sure it would be legal in Qld. The rules here say a trailer axle must be solid steel right the way across. No doubt there would be some concessions for a specialized trailer.

odd considering the weakest parts are now the non welded areas, plus you queenslanders always do have funny rule's :P spent a lot of time working and driving between Roma and Gladstone, got a fair few finds for doing 110km/h instead of 100.
Most ski boats in WA seem to use a gull-wing axle like this (most are not gusseted) so as to reduce the required draft when launching.

starting to look into the navigation side a bit, my current thoughts are to use a raspberry pi with a 10" touch screen, running Mapinfo and a Trimble GPS receiver.
this will allow me to use just about any file format for charts, i have most of Australia in .EWS format which will come in handy.
im hoping to also be able to integrate a transducer into it and display the data on screen, and log depths.

just wondering what other people have used

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Stuman92 said..
Hey Ramona

axles done, fits up nicely too, just got it off drying currently,


The Gull wing clears the ground by about 125mm (so nice and legal)
the original ground clearance was 140mm

Nice job. Stub axles for round and square section are still available in NSW so I guess I'm still legal.

I use a 16 inch laptop with Seaclear 2 and a GPS puck with a SIRF 4 chip. Digital admiralty charts. Laptop is screwed to the nav table and also the Logitech TrackMan Wheel Track Ball Mouse.

Don't bother with screens smaller than 16 inch. The old 19 inch 4 x 3 screen on my fishing boat was nice but I would go bigger now. Real estate is everything! Forget touch screens if you ever get wet fingers.