Hi All

I'm after some recommendations for coastal navigation courses. This is one area I have done no training whatsoever but I need the skills so I can:

1. Safely navigate from Pittwater to Sydney Harbour at easter as a first test run (will be in convoy with other vessels from the club)
2. Navigate to Port Stephens some time in the next 12 months and spend a couple of weeks exploring.
3. Qualify to charter a Seawind (bareboat) next season possibly in the whitsundays. (therefore an official qualification would be needed and would be useful).

The guys at the sailing club recommended a few options but interested to find out any others? I was hoping for a classroom setting so I could help my mum do the course at the same time and get qualified. But if people who did the online course found it good value for money I might just do that instead.

East Sail - Pricey but quality? Classroom setting is a good learning environment
Online courses (Day Skipper): www.navathome.com.au/
TAFE? Couldnt find any courses but does anyone know if they do it?
Self Teaching? Should I just buy a couple of books to start or just go straight into the qualification?

Just for background I have done:
VHF radio course/license
NSW Boat license
YA competent crew course. (although I never got the piece of paper!)

Any help appreciated!

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FelixdeCat said..
Hi All

I'm after some recommendations for coastal navigation courses. This is one area I have done no training whatsoever but I need the skills so I can:

1. Safely navigate from Pittwater to Sydney Harbour at easter as a first test run (will be in convoy with other vessels from the club)
2. Navigate to Port Stephens some time in the next 12 months and spend a couple of weeks exploring.
3. Qualify to charter a Seawind (bareboat) next season possibly in the whitsundays. (therefore an official qualification would be needed and would be useful).

The guys at the sailing club recommended a few options but interested to find out any others? I was hoping for a classroom setting so I could help my mum do the course at the same time and get qualified. But if people who did the online course found it good value for money I might just do that instead.

East Sail - Pricey but quality? Classroom setting is a good learning environment
Online courses (Day Skipper): www.navathome.com.au/
TAFE? Couldnt find any courses but does anyone know if they do it?
Self Teaching? Should I just buy a couple of books to start or just go straight into the qualification?

Just for background I have done:
VHF radio course/license
NSW Boat license
YA competent crew course. (although I never got the piece of paper!)

Any help appreciated!

You really do not need any course to sail from Pittwater to the harbour or Port Stephens.
Just pick your day.
If you are worried go outside a couple of times before your trip.
As for the chartering call and see if they require it before spending the money.

Hi Felix
I think you should do a course,
Then when you go out, the knowledge will be applied and it will fall into place.
When under way you can pick up your text or open the lesson and double check anything that you feel a little wary about.

I looked at the courses that you quoted and they are very pricey.
I just found this www.coastalnavigation.com.au/
Have no experience with them but at $100 look reasonable.

It looks like TAFE only offer "professional degree" courses.

After all , all you need is a text and some exercises to practice, then experience.
My guess is that most course material is about the same.
AND you have the knowledge and experience of Seabreezers to turn to to assist you.

Gary

As Twodogs said, you don't need official qualifications for what you want to do. Although, knowledge never hurt anyone.

From what I understand of the bareboat charters in the Whitsundays, they will take you out for a couple of hours. Actually, some say, as long as it takes to get you competent to sail the boat, anchor, moor and set/pack sails. Most of the charter websites have a FAQ page that covers what you need. I think they rely on the fact that it would be rare for anyone who couldn't, hasn't ever sailed to even want to charter a sailing yacht.

As for Pittwater to Sydney, just keep the shoreline on your Starboard side, and keep your distance from Newport Reef, Long Reef and don't be tempted to go in too close to North Head on your way in to the harbour. Pick your day.

Well I guess you are right in the sense that I don't neeeeed to get qualified to do these small trips but I wanted to do a course before I do them so I could practice the skills during an actual trip and bed the knowledge with experience. I am not at all worried about the trip to the harbour but for port Stephens I would like to be able to be confident in planning.

Up till now I just use navionics around Pittwater and Hawkesbury.

Hey Felix

The Northern Beaches Community College used to do coastal nav, I did my weather course with them many years ago. I just had a quick look at their website and couldn't find it, but it might be worth giving them a call. They're based out of Narrabeen Public School or the big facility next door.

Jethrow

RYA Day Skipper theory & practical courses are excellent and would give you everything you need. If you're good on the practical aspects & just want the theory, just do that course. We did a combined course & it was worth every penny.

I've recently done the navathome Coastal Skipper/Yachtmaster online course. Personally I loathed it, but think that was more down to our situation at the time. There are a few annoying features, but if you're o.k. with online courses, can put in the time, have somewhere to work in peace & don't need the camaraderie of a class , it could be good (at Day Skipper level I mean).

It's amazing how much confidence a combination of training and practice can give you.

Cheers

Bristol

You definitely don't need any qualifications to bareboat the Whitsundays. That said, they test you to ensure that you can handle the boat, have common sense, assess/manage risks etc.

Regardless navigation is really required learning, I'm keen to understand nav without land features

15 years ago I did a course at our TAFE but run by Yachtmaster. It was about 6 weeks and almost 3 hours per evening, but I see on the brochure now that it can be done in a weekend, alas it is in Melbourne. The next course is 9-10 Feb.
Date and prices: https://yachtmaster.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dates-201819.pdf
brochure and syllabus: yachtmaster.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/brochure2007b.pdf

Another school in Melb has a one day plus 2 evenings navigation course: rycv.com.au/training-centre/rya-courses/
but the back-and-forth is not practical for you in Sydney.
I could not find similar courses online in Sydney. I saw Nav-at-home at only $295. I found classroom experience, feedback and explanations very good, because a lot of it was using the tools (dividers, parallel rules and Breton/Portland plotter, etc) and I sometimes need to see things, rather than hear instructions. The same with deviation: it was great to have constant reminders and mnemonics for this.

The other thing I found was that much of the course was also contained in Jeff Toghill's book www.bookdepository.com/Coastal-Navigation-Jeff-Toghill/9780393302936?ref=grid-view&qid=1548414894462&sr=1-1

I second the Jeff Toghill book, Coastal Navigation. If you read this book cover to cover( it's only a small paperback) you'll have the knowledge to practice all the Nav skills like fixing position, dead reckoning, running fixes, etc etc, when you go sailing up or down the coast.

Felix. There was a course run at Church Point in a shack on the ferry wharf by Mike De burgh. He sold out
to someone who is still there ( i think ) because their boats are still moored off the Marina.

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samsturdy said..
Felix. There was a course run at Church Point in a shack on the ferry wharf by Mike De burgh. He sold out
to someone who is still there ( i think ) because their boats are still moored off the Marina.

www.allsail.com.au
No specific mention of coastal navigation in their courses but I'm sure it would be in there somewhere. A pretty active group and a great way to build confidence with a combination of theory and practical experience.

Yeah I did the competent crew course with allsail back in 2016. I'll give them a call and order the Jeff Toghill book to get started.

'Afloat' magazine ran a three part series 'Coastal Navigation Made Easy' a couple of years ago. The archive is on-line and the articles are well worth looking up. And the price is right - as it says on the cover of each edition - 'Priceless'
Part 1 - http://magazine.afloat.com.au/?iid=134027#folio=32
Part 2 - magazine.afloat.com.au/?iid=145803#folio=26
Part 3 - magazine.afloat.com.au/?iid=149350#folio=36

HI Felix,
I'm doing the RYA Essential Navigation and Seamanship course at the moment, and can give it a big tick for coastal/bay relevance.
You ring your local RYA school and buy the course, they send you out your pack. It comes with a couple of charts, a navigation instruments and a couple of worthwhile handbooks.
You get an online login and you have the choice of following the online training almanac or the printed one. The exam is online and really well thought out.
The recommended minimum time is 16 hours to complete the course as a reference, I found I needed a bit more.
I've attached a picture of the training syllabus in case this is any help. I've found it really interesting, a fair bit I knew but I still got caught out a few times, it's been really cool in that regard.
Cheers,
SB

Hi felix. I've done the navathome course and found it quite good and comprehensive but a bit expensive
I've all so done a navigation course through the volunteer coast guard. Was free for me as I'm a volunteer there. So you could check your local coast guard if and when they do the course.
But i have never put it into practice as Navionics is just to easy and accurate

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shaggybaxter said..
HI Felix,
I'm doing the RYA Essential Navigation and Seamanship course at the moment, and can give it a big tick for coastal/bay relevance.
You ring your local RYA school and buy the course, they send you out your pack. It comes with a couple of charts, a navigation instruments and a couple of worthwhile handbooks.
You get an online login and you have the choice of following the online training almanac or the printed one. The exam is online and really well thought out.
The recommended minimum time is 16 hours to complete the course as a reference, I found I needed a bit more.
I've attached a picture of the training syllabus in case this is any help. I've found it really interesting, a fair bit I knew but I still got caught out a few times, it's been really cool in that regard.
Cheers,
SB

Thanks Shaggy

Ok so Eastsail offers just such a course for $225 plus postage. That sounds pretty reasonable. They say 8-12 hours to complete. I will order that one as it covers just what I want.

Thanks Gravy7, I will also read through those while I wait for the RYA kit.

East Sail Syllabus:

Essential Navigation and Seamanship Course Topics

Charts and publications
Safety
Engine checks
Buoyage
Tidal awareness
Visual and electronic navigation
Pilotage
Right of way rules
Anchoring
Weather forecasts

Select to expand quote

FelixdeCat said..

shaggybaxter said..
HI Felix,
I'm doing the RYA Essential Navigation and Seamanship course at the moment, and can give it a big tick for coastal/bay relevance.
You ring your local RYA school and buy the course, they send you out your pack. It comes with a couple of charts, a navigation instruments and a couple of worthwhile handbooks.
You get an online login and you have the choice of following the online training almanac or the printed one. The exam is online and really well thought out.
The recommended minimum time is 16 hours to complete the course as a reference, I found I needed a bit more.
I've attached a picture of the training syllabus in case this is any help. I've found it really interesting, a fair bit I knew but I still got caught out a few times, it's been really cool in that regard.
Cheers,
SB

Thanks Shaggy

Ok so Eastsail offers just such a course for $225 plus postage. That sounds pretty reasonable. They say 8-12 hours to complete. I will order that one as it covers just what I want.

Thanks Gravy7, I will also read through those while I wait for the RYA kit.

East Sail Syllabus:

Essential Navigation and Seamanship Course Topics

Charts and publications
Safety
Engine checks
Buoyage
Tidal awareness
Visual and electronic navigation
Pilotage
Right of way rules
Anchoring
Weather forecasts

My personal opinion is that Syllabus is nothing that you couldn't achieve yourself for a lot less and get a tonne more information. For $225 you will be able to buy/download/google/YouTube much more detail/information/instructions that any of these all encompassing types of courses could possibly offer. You could build yourself a library of books and references that would offer so much more.

Would you seriously pay for a topic covering right of way rules?

Select to expand quote

FreeRadical said..

FelixdeCat said..

shaggybaxter said..
HI Felix,
I'm doing the RYA Essential Navigation and Seamanship course at the moment, and can give it a big tick for coastal/bay relevance.
You ring your local RYA school and buy the course, they send you out your pack. It comes with a couple of charts, a navigation instruments and a couple of worthwhile handbooks.
You get an online login and you have the choice of following the online training almanac or the printed one. The exam is online and really well thought out.
The recommended minimum time is 16 hours to complete the course as a reference, I found I needed a bit more.
I've attached a picture of the training syllabus in case this is any help. I've found it really interesting, a fair bit I knew but I still got caught out a few times, it's been really cool in that regard.
Cheers,
SB

Thanks Shaggy

Ok so Eastsail offers just such a course for $225 plus postage. That sounds pretty reasonable. They say 8-12 hours to complete. I will order that one as it covers just what I want.

Thanks Gravy7, I will also read through those while I wait for the RYA kit.

East Sail Syllabus:

Essential Navigation and Seamanship Course Topics

Charts and publications
Safety
Engine checks
Buoyage
Tidal awareness
Visual and electronic navigation
Pilotage
Right of way rules
Anchoring
Weather forecasts

My personal opinion is that Syllabus is nothing that you couldn't achieve yourself for a lot less and get a tonne more information. For $225 you will be able to buy/download/google/YouTube much more detail/information/instructions that any of these all encompassing types of courses could possibly offer. You could build yourself a library of books and references that would offer so much more.

Would you seriously pay for a topic covering right of way rules?

+1 FR, there's a ton of really good stuff on YouTube.
Felix, unless you really want a piece of paper validating your knowledge, you can learn a lot more from YouTube and practical experience.
good luck.

Whilst I fully respect right of anyone to learn in the best way for them, I'd make a few comments :

A structured course makes you study every area of the syllabus and achieve the required standard. If you don't have certain features in your local area, they can be difficult to learn about by practical experience alone - and then a rude shock when you meet 'em.

Learning from others is great, but you can pick up a few short cuts that may not always be appropriate or just plain bad habits.

Books are often great. YouTube can be useful, very much personal opinion or just plain dangerous.

It's really hard to make yourself sit down and do chartwork exercises etc without some pressure - and a bit too easy to persuade oneself that your answer is near enough.

Personally, I find the mix of practical experience, input from loads of other sailors , books, YouTube, formal courses and, of course, interaction with my more experienced "brains trust" on forums such as this to be ideal.

Cheers

Bristol

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Bristolfashion said..
Whilst I fully respect right of anyone to learn in the best way for them, I'd make a few comments :

A structured course makes you study every area of the syllabus and achieve the required standard. If you don't have certain features in your local area, they can be difficult to learn about by practical experience alone - and then a rude shock when you meet 'em.

Learning from others is great, but you can pick up a few short cuts that may not always be appropriate or just plain bad habits.

Books are often great. YouTube can be useful, very much personal opinion or just plain dangerous.

It's really hard to make yourself sit down and do chartwork exercises etc without some pressure - and a bit too easy to persuade oneself that your answer is near enough.

Personally, I find the mix of practical experience, input from loads of other sailors , books, YouTube, formal courses and, of course, interaction with my more experienced "brains trust" on forums such as this to be ideal.

Cheers

Bristol

That pretty much sums it up. I know myself well enough that putting some structure around the topic will make me sit down and learn it. If I am left to my own devices I might skip bits or not do it at all. For sure I will also buy the other texts mentioned here for reference because as Bristol said its always best to get different sources and combine with practical.

I just put the syllabus there for comparison/others who might be interested.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to put a reef in and sail a ways out of broken bay. The holding tank is full and needs emptying I'll mark the spot on my chart.

Thanks all!

I agree completely, each to their own, I get more benefit from tuition, probably because I'm pretty simple.

I'm embarrassed to admit being caught out a few times debating even Aids to Nav at the bar, a couple of notable ones I shot myself in the foot over;
- You are transiting from PNG to the Phillipines, What lateral marks are kept to port entering harbor for both countries? (I said red)
- Or what lights are required to be shown at night for a sailing vessel under 7mtrs? (I said the standard tri color)
- A ship is displaying red over white over red lights, with a further red over red. What does this signify? (I thought it was you're approaching on port side to a vessel restricted in ability to manouver)
Doh!
I should preface this by stating you only need to know all this if you intend to sail in these conditions /areas of course!
Cheers,
SB

Over my lifetime I've got a few 'pieces of paper' and I've found I respond well to the 'classroom' situation. Nothing
like the pressure of someone else's expectation of your capacity to learn. Works for me.

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Datawiz said..

FreeRadical said..

FelixdeCat said..

shaggybaxter said..
HI Felix,
I'm doing the RYA Essential Navigation and Seamanship course at the moment, and can give it a big tick for coastal/bay relevance.
You ring your local RYA school and buy the course, they send you out your pack. It comes with a couple of charts, a navigation instruments and a couple of worthwhile handbooks.
You get an online login and you have the choice of following the online training almanac or the printed one. The exam is online and really well thought out.
The recommended minimum time is 16 hours to complete the course as a reference, I found I needed a bit more.
I've attached a picture of the training syllabus in case this is any help. I've found it really interesting, a fair bit I knew but I still got caught out a few times, it's been really cool in that regard.
Cheers,
SB

Thanks Shaggy

Ok so Eastsail offers just such a course for $225 plus postage. That sounds pretty reasonable. They say 8-12 hours to complete. I will order that one as it covers just what I want.

Thanks Gravy7, I will also read through those while I wait for the RYA kit.

East Sail Syllabus:

Essential Navigation and Seamanship Course Topics

Charts and publications
Safety
Engine checks
Buoyage
Tidal awareness
Visual and electronic navigation
Pilotage
Right of way rules
Anchoring
Weather forecasts

My personal opinion is that Syllabus is nothing that you couldn't achieve yourself for a lot less and get a tonne more information. For $225 you will be able to buy/download/google/YouTube much more detail/information/instructions that any of these all encompassing types of courses could possibly offer. You could build yourself a library of books and references that would offer so much more.

Would you seriously pay for a topic covering right of way rules?

+1 FR, there's a ton of really good stuff on YouTube.
Felix, unless you really want a piece of paper validating your knowledge, you can learn a lot more from YouTube and practical experience.
good luck.

I neglected to mention books - particularly the RYA series which are often the textbooks for formal certification courses.
regards,
allan

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FelixdeCat said..
If I am left to my own devices I might skip bits or not do it at all.

Yep, this was me.... If I hadn't paid for an expensive course that had an expiry date, I probably wouldn't of completed any course (and minimal reading).

I did the Navathome course both day skipper and Yachtmaster. Would I recommend it! I don't know. Like you I learn more from practical then theory. My personal opinion is that this course is probably not the best for that kind of person. I liked where the were going with the course, but it seemed a bit 'clunky'. I had already had a very good grasp of navigation and chart work, communications, meteorology and other aspects of the syllabus, but I think the level of the support service from your theory provider will make or break this course.

I would not not recommend Navathome, but it sounds to me you would better benefit from something a little more hands on.

PS. +1 for FreeRadicals and Datawiz' comment. Most of the online content as well as the hardcopy manuals provided on the above course can be found at any Whitworths or Chartshop stores for a fraction of the course cost.

If one wants to educate him/herself to a professional standard on coastal navigation AND what goes with it, the Queensland Transport "Small Ship's Manual" is one of the best tomes you could lay your hands on.

Laying your hands on a copy will be the hardest part. You ain't getting my copy at any price.