So here's the spec
- Capable of taking 2+ adults
- Suitable for racing/sailing solo or 2 up
- Lightweight for beach launching
- Fully battened main and no boom to avoid headaches
- Asymmetric spinnaker
- Doesn't require extreme fitness
- Under $20K new
- Modern construction (carbon, fibreglass) to save weight

Suggestions?

No idea ..... But for some reason , I think , you may tell me soon enough ....

Weta

You get an old 29er , no seriously, then check out the sites about converting one to single handed sailing including the single handed kite launch and retrieval.
check it out.

Buy an ad.

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Gravy7 said..
Buy an ad.

Except this is Seabreeze not Sailing Anarchy and there's no display ads - just Google ad blocks.
The Buy and Sell ads are free classifieds so I presume that's not what you're referring to.

Brand new Taser for about $15,000 fits the parameters you spelled out.

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Pewit said..
So here's the spec
- Capable of taking 2+ adults
- Suitable for racing/sailing solo or 2 up
- Lightweight for beach launching
- Fully battened main and no boom to avoid headaches
- Asymmetric spinnaker
- Doesn't require extreme fitness
- Under $20K new
- Modern construction (carbon, fibreglass) to save weight

Suggestions?

I can't think of a single dinghy I would want to sail with out a boom. Wont be many capable of carrying 2 plus adults and still be capable of racing solo.
I had an old fibreglass Flying Dutchman I used to sail solo on occasions. Something like an old 505 would carry 2+ and solo on very light days but still be capable of frightening you fartless in a breeze. Taser would work but a tight fit 2+ and a handful solo.

You're describing a beach cat Pewit.

Hobie 16 i have is probably not what you're after as they have a boom which has given me a headache one or twice when i haven't got low enough. They dont have the buoyancy for 2+ either.

However, I haven't tried one but the nacra cats would be what you're looking for. Boomless, kite, able to take 2+, under 20k and plenty of carbon bits to put on.

If its anything like my hobie then you will be able to rig it yourself and take it out solo 20knts and under. I've been out in 25knt gusts solo (unexpected storm cloud) but it really was too much on me and the boat. Two up then no worries.

Heaps of fun.

Pewitt
I nearly got sucked in to this!

But i googled your name

Your question is intended to promote the Weta

Do you have a financial interest?

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Madmouse said..
Pewitt
I nearly got sucked in to this!

But i googled your name

Your question is intended to promote the Weta

Do you have a financial interest?

Kinda - but I'm more interested to see what else mature sailors are sailing and why :

I know "chunky" blokes sail Finns but it takes a certain amount of masochism to do so from what I've seen.

There's lots of people in the Laser masters category but some contacts of mine have said they sail them because everyone else does - which seems a bit lame. They don't drive 1970s cars but still sail a 70s design (albeit with a few improvements).

The Aero has a big following in the USA and UK but it doesn't seem to have done much here.

For those who can find a crew there's the Tasar but finding regular crew is hard whatever you sail.

Many of the suggestions are for 2-handed boats you "can" sail solo if the conditions were right (read under 20 knots). But could you do a full season in one?

Well, if you can't ask a question without insulting one of your largest potential markets - the "lame" Laser sailors - then maybe you won't succeed in working out the "why"?

I don't understand how anyone cannot work out why "everyone else sailing them" isn't a very good reason to buy a boat. Most people would rather sail a strong one design class than sail against a couple of similar boats or a gaggle of different designs. Depending on your aims and skill level, mixed fleet racing can be a very frustrating experience. Your result gets down more to the conditions than the way you sail. Moving into a strong class like the Laser allows you great racing and good feedback on how you are sailing.

Yes, the Laser is a '70s design. So what? If I want to go fast I'll go really fast, and that doesn't mean I'll sail a Weta, one of the slowest 14 foot multis around. Plenty of strong one design classes are basically immortal and the Laser has a very high chance of becoming one of them. If having a new design is so important then we'd all be kitefoiling - until the next new thing comes along.

It's pretty simple - respect your target market instead of calling them lame masochists and they may be interested in your class. Not many of us want to join a class full of people who sneer at others.

Pewitt l see what you are getting at but think you would have got a better response if you had been upfront in the first place.
Good luck

Curious topic.

A few (probably more than a few) of us on here sail one design dinghy's. There is a dinghy to suit all tastes. My taste is a Tasar, which I sail fairly regularly with my partner. I have been through the 'I don't have a crew this week/month/year' and at that time I bought a Laser. Taught me how to sail a boat properly in a large fleet where it was only the hand on the tiller that could be blamed.

There is another topic going on about mono vs catamaran. Very relevant to this topic.

Also, if you have a vested interest in a topic, it is wise to state it up front. We have had enough people on here start topics with hidden agenda's and it tends to leave a bad smell for a while.......

You can of course create specifications which will limit your choice to any boat you want. A 'one" or "two" person boat will always be a compromise - underpowered for two, overpowered for one, and for close tactical racing, not everyone want a multihull (many don't).

But if we go back to the original proposition - a performance dingy for mature folk, that was something I spent a long time looking for.

Because trapezes are easier on the body (even an old one) than hard hiking, because I like fast, spinnaker driven boats, because I like sailing with someone else and because the trouble with a single wire boat is you really want a flyweight skipper and monster crew, I was trying to find a "sensible" high performance twin wire skiff.

49er's, 14's, & 12's were all a bit crazy (especially for the river I sail in).

I eventually found what I wanted in the Formula 15; a sensible, fast, twin wire skiff suitable for ages 18 to 70. And I've loved sailing and racing it from the day I've bought it.

I sail an RS400.

It's a modern performance dinghy that's a hoot to sail. Huge fleets in Europe, not so much here.

Try one of these....National 125

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Chris 249 said..
Well, if you can't ask a question without insulting one of your largest potential markets - the "lame" Laser sailors - then maybe you won't succeed in working out the "why"?

I don't understand how anyone cannot work out why "everyone else sailing them" isn't a very good reason to buy a boat. Most people would rather sail a strong one design class than sail against a couple of similar boats or a gaggle of different designs. Depending on your aims and skill level, mixed fleet racing can be a very frustrating experience. Your result gets down more to the conditions than the way you sail. Moving into a strong class like the Laser allows you great racing and good feedback on how you are sailing.

Yes, the Laser is a '70s design. So what? If I want to go fast I'll go really fast, and that doesn't mean I'll sail a Weta, one of the slowest 14 foot multis around. Plenty of strong one design classes are basically immortal and the Laser has a very high chance of becoming one of them. If having a new design is so important then we'd all be kitefoiling - until the next new thing comes along.

It's pretty simple - respect your target market instead of calling them lame masochists and they may be interested in your class. Not many of us want to join a class full of people who sneer at others.

I hate to say it, but Lasers are pretty poor!!

A poorly built boat that is over priced and is a pain to sail.

Add to that you are looking at basically buying a whole boat, multiple sails and mast sections every year if you want to stay even slightly competitive in a fleet.
Was the Laser dealer in WA a few years back and at a windy nationals we replaced more than 10% or the fleets top sections!!!

Yes there are good fleets but boats like Sabres are taking older guys from Laser fleets who are sick of trying to compete against kids getting top level coaching between races at states/national titles.

That all said, I know plenty of great Laser sailors, great guys who cut their teeth in Lasers and moved on to bigger and better things, I just don't think they are a class for anoyone over 30 to 'get into'

Sabres are great boats! Esp in a bit of a breeze!

Lots of extremely differing replies. What I suggest is, (with the exception of your requirement for "doesn't require extreme fitness") buy anything, load it to the hilt with all the sails it comes with (and more), and go out solo in the most extreme conditions that present themselves on any given weekend/day, have fun (performance). If not satisfied, try again...weather/boat...Sorry if you're the brains trust for the next America's Cup challenge.
Was this really a serious thread? If not what will the future America's Cup yachts look like and does anyone care?

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rumblefish said..

Chris 249 said..
Well, if you can't ask a question without insulting one of your largest potential markets - the "lame" Laser sailors - then maybe you won't succeed in working out the "why"?

I don't understand how anyone cannot work out why "everyone else sailing them" isn't a very good reason to buy a boat. Most people would rather sail a strong one design class than sail against a couple of similar boats or a gaggle of different designs. Depending on your aims and skill level, mixed fleet racing can be a very frustrating experience. Your result gets down more to the conditions than the way you sail. Moving into a strong class like the Laser allows you great racing and good feedback on how you are sailing.

Yes, the Laser is a '70s design. So what? If I want to go fast I'll go really fast, and that doesn't mean I'll sail a Weta, one of the slowest 14 foot multis around. Plenty of strong one design classes are basically immortal and the Laser has a very high chance of becoming one of them. If having a new design is so important then we'd all be kitefoiling - until the next new thing comes along.

It's pretty simple - respect your target market instead of calling them lame masochists and they may be interested in your class. Not many of us want to join a class full of people who sneer at others.

I hate to say it, but Lasers are pretty poor!!

A poorly built boat that is over priced and is a pain to sail.

Add to that you are looking at basically buying a whole boat, multiple sails and mast sections every year if you want to stay even slightly competitive in a fleet.
Was the Laser dealer in WA a few years back and at a windy nationals we replaced more than 10% or the fleets top sections!!!

Yes there are good fleets but boats like Sabres are taking older guys from Laser fleets who are sick of trying to compete against kids getting top level coaching between races at states/national titles.

That all said, I know plenty of great Laser sailors, great guys who cut their teeth in Lasers and moved on to bigger and better things, I just don't think they are a class for anoyone over 30 to 'get into'

Well, we'll have to disagree, and so will many, many guys who have done well in the odd worlds or two in 18s, Solings, Tasars, etc. It's hard work to sail and the rudder design is a bit of a pain, but (particularly in the lighter winds of NSW) many of us find it much more fun than much slower boats like Sabres (which are great in their own way). The guys who make up the huge fleets of masters in Lasers aren't idiots when it comes to choosing boats.

The WA experience is fairly isolated. Yes, we do break the occasional spar but then again the boat is thousands of dollars less than a significantly slower singlehander like a Sabre. I'd trade off replacing Laser spars (as I have done at times) quite happily against replacing the much more expensive spars in my other boats, because the Laser stick costs so much less.

In NSW, at least, you don't need a new boat, multiple sails and new mast sections every year. My brother and I have a pretty full set of NSW championship wins (1st place the junior, Radial open, standard open and Masters state titles) and that was all with pretty much one boat and two sails (one new, one old) each. He got top 25 in the standard open worlds and 1st in the junior nationals and in all his time he used only one (old) borrowed boat to learn on, one new boat of his own with a replacement set of spars and the original sail, and the charter boat at the worlds. That was a long time ago, but from my experience I know you can still get top 10 in the Masters nationals and be very competitive in club racing against guys who are in the top 10 in the open fleet, with a second-hand rag on a 20+ year old hull (130 series) and without much training. I'd say that with a decent sail on that hull you could be top 5 nationally in the masters if you were training hard and properly.

Apart from Victoria, there doesn't seem to be a fleet of singlehanders that can offer anything like the strength in numbers and geography that the Laser can. That alone is a powerful reason for many sailors to go for the Laser.