Been reading some old posts on peoples paint woes largely caused by people wanting to paint there topsides them selves. I was a painter for over 30 years, rare to find original 40 plus year old gelcoat thats still looking good, I know with my own Tophat which sadly needs a total paint job inside and out, luckily for me I know a painter lol silly old one legged rooster but geez he can pull off a good paint job. Now trying hard not to brag here my current favorite paint is Norglass Modified Polyurethane Enamel, they say not recommended for areas of constant immersion but anyway back to my story, if your preparation is spit on and your fastidious with cleaning, sanding etc I can pull of a job with a brush that is comparable to spray, I can do both but I prefer brush. The act of proper enamelling is an art form, flood coating is an art form, you wont learn this in 5 mins.
i read where one fella bought a yacht freshly painted, in paint used to do metal fences. Now most enamels could be used on fibreglass they lack one thing UV Stability, meaning inside of two years your paints gone chalky, you can solve this by over coating in UV Stabilised Marine Clear , Once you paint over gelcoat look forward to doing it once in a while, a coat of clear every two years isnt too stressing, this applies to your hull sides too

Aldi metal enamel is good on fibreglass hulls. Particularly good to spray. I use it on my dinghies, boat and car trailer etc. About $10 a litre. Gelcoat on my yacht is not perfect, only 39 years old but it wont be seeing paint for a fair while yet. There was a 40 year old Bertram on the slips during the week that had a superb gelcoat, far better than what you see on new yachts.

So a clear coat of what over this?

Select to expand quote

southace said..
So a clear coat of what over this?

Dont put this crap on a yacht, i kniw in the uk the swing is to water based ever for cars, in my years i used plenty of this stuff, might be ok in a house but no good in the weather, proplem here is acrylic water based paints stretch, if you put a clear over coat on it shes gonna crack, come time to recoat its gonna be a turd fight, the acrylic flexs the enamel clears dont stretch, having said that sikkens yacht laquer has some stretch too it, used on teak decks its very grippy, im old fashioned i use old fashioned products and techniques hardly taught today in the trade.

If i had a wood yacht or built one from scratch the traditional method is this, old fashioned pink primer which is hard to get, the dutch make the best, so pink primer essentially is very oily due to linseed, it bites into the wood and makes and furry grain stand up you then sand it nice and smooth, you then use oil based undercoat which fills the grain, after sanding and old fashioned oil based filler is use to fill imperfections, you then sand this back dead smooth,
my method for applying finish coats is using your chosen oil enamel i make a half and half mix so half undercoat half enamel, adding a wee bit linseed and turps ill use a roller and foam is best a good quality wide brush to lay off this coat, working in small sections until finished, a further sand using 240 aluminium oxide paper and any touch up filling done, technically id then do a three coat of the finishing enamel, a drop of 2 K hardner can be added to last coat, given time to dry you end up with ultra smooth high gloss finish, totally fine for timber boats, the good thing is touching up is easy, when time comes to freshen the paint off you just knock the gloss finish off it and refinish, oil based paints weather naturally.

GRP is a different story, gelcoat is the first thing that is applied to a mould, susbsequent layets of glass when the hull is removed its already finished, gelcoat is not easy to gelcoat its crap to use, crap to spray , crap to replucate the factory finish, getting a paint like two pack urethane to last ontop of gelcoat is difficult too,
My system is a repair to any cracks and a real good sand, i then just throw the polyurethane enamel straight on, I dont bother with undercoat, this is my lil vintage Caribbean Galaxy, this boat currently has 6 coats of white 4 coats yellow, both is polyurethane enamel I idid it by hand its glassy smooth and hard as stone, sadly i gotta get rid off this lil guy, i need the money to blow on Tern.
Pulling off a good paint job is hard work, fiddly, but the satisfaction is enormous and its cheap in comparison to sending it off to a yard.

Select to expand quote

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..
So a clear coat of what over this?

Dont put this crap on a yacht, i kniw in the uk the swing is to water based ever for cars, in my years i used plenty of this stuff, might be ok in a house but no good in the weather, proplem here is acrylic water based paints stretch, if you put a clear over coat on it shes gonna crack, come time to recoat its gonna be a turd fight, the acrylic flexs the enamel clears dont stretch, having said that sikkens yacht laquer has some stretch too it, used on teak decks its very grippy, im old fashioned i use old fashioned products and techniques hardly taught today in the trade.

If i had a wood yacht or built one from scratch the traditional method is this, old fashioned pink primer which is hard to get, the dutch make the best, so pink primer essentially is very oily due to linseed, it bites into the wood and makes and furry grain stand up you then sand it nice and smooth, you then use oil based undercoat which fills the grain, after sanding and old fashioned oil based filler is use to fill imperfections, you then sand this back dead smooth,
my method for applying finish coats is using your chosen oil enamel i make a half and half mix so half undercoat half enamel, adding a wee bit linseed and turps ill use a roller and foam is best a good quality wide brush to lay off this coat, working in small sections until finished, a further sand using 240 aluminium oxide paper and any touch up filling done, technically id then do a three coat of the finishing enamel, a drop of 2 K hardner can be added to last coat, given time to dry you end up with ultra smooth high gloss finish, totally fine for timber boats, the good thing is touching up is easy, when time comes to freshen the paint off you just knock the gloss finish off it and refinish, oil based paints weather naturally.

GRP is a different story, gelcoat is the first thing that is applied to a mould, susbsequent layets of glass when the hull is removed its already finished, gelcoat is not easy to gelcoat its crap to use, crap to spray , crap to replucate the factory finish, getting a paint like two pack urethane to last ontop of gelcoat is difficult too,
My system is a repair to any cracks and a real good sand, i then just throw the polyurethane enamel straight on, I dont bother with undercoat, this is my lil vintage Caribbean Galaxy, this boat currently has 6 coats of white 4 coats yellow, both is polyurethane enamel I idid it by hand its glassy smooth and hard as stone, sadly i gotta get rid off this lil guy, i need the money to blow on Tern.
Pulling off a good paint job is hard work, fiddly, but the satisfaction is enormous and its cheap in comparison to sending it off to a yard.

It's water based enamel not acrylics in my opinion oil based acrylic paints are crap far better water based enamels out now with uv protection and all the technology thrown in to give you at least 5 years before re coat.

Select to expand quote

southace said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..
So a clear coat of what over this?

Dont put this crap on a yacht, i kniw in the uk the swing is to water based ever for cars, in my years i used plenty of this stuff, might be ok in a house but no good in the weather, proplem here is acrylic water based paints stretch, if you put a clear over coat on it shes gonna crack, come time to recoat its gonna be a turd fight, the acrylic flexs the enamel clears dont stretch, having said that sikkens yacht laquer has some stretch too it, used on teak decks its very grippy, im old fashioned i use old fashioned products and techniques hardly taught today in the trade.

If i had a wood yacht or built one from scratch the traditional method is this, old fashioned pink primer which is hard to get, the dutch make the best, so pink primer essentially is very oily due to linseed, it bites into the wood and makes and furry grain stand up you then sand it nice and smooth, you then use oil based undercoat which fills the grain, after sanding and old fashioned oil based filler is use to fill imperfections, you then sand this back dead smooth,
my method for applying finish coats is using your chosen oil enamel i make a half and half mix so half undercoat half enamel, adding a wee bit linseed and turps ill use a roller and foam is best a good quality wide brush to lay off this coat, working in small sections until finished, a further sand using 240 aluminium oxide paper and any touch up filling done, technically id then do a three coat of the finishing enamel, a drop of 2 K hardner can be added to last coat, given time to dry you end up with ultra smooth high gloss finish, totally fine for timber boats, the good thing is touching up is easy, when time comes to freshen the paint off you just knock the gloss finish off it and refinish, oil based paints weather naturally.

GRP is a different story, gelcoat is the first thing that is applied to a mould, susbsequent layets of glass when the hull is removed its already finished, gelcoat is not easy to gelcoat its crap to use, crap to spray , crap to replucate the factory finish, getting a paint like two pack urethane to last ontop of gelcoat is difficult too,
My system is a repair to any cracks and a real good sand, i then just throw the polyurethane enamel straight on, I dont bother with undercoat, this is my lil vintage Caribbean Galaxy, this boat currently has 6 coats of white 4 coats yellow, both is polyurethane enamel I idid it by hand its glassy smooth and hard as stone, sadly i gotta get rid off this lil guy, i need the money to blow on Tern.
Pulling off a good paint job is hard work, fiddly, but the satisfaction is enormous and its cheap in comparison to sending it off to a yard.

It's water based enamel not acrylics in my opinion oil based acrylic paints are crap far better water based enamels out now with uv protection and all the technology thrown in to give you at least 5 years before re coat.

Water based enamel , water based acrylics are much the same both are based on water both are equally useless, maybe water based might be ok on top deck , using it below waterline, well you will have big blisters full of sea water in no time, i will never be sold on any water based paint being ok for anything to do with a vessel subjected to the elements we get in this country

Select to expand quote

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..
So a clear coat of what over this?

Dont put this crap on a yacht, i kniw in the uk the swing is to water based ever for cars, in my years i used plenty of this stuff, might be ok in a house but no good in the weather, proplem here is acrylic water based paints stretch, if you put a clear over coat on it shes gonna crack, come time to recoat its gonna be a turd fight, the acrylic flexs the enamel clears dont stretch, having said that sikkens yacht laquer has some stretch too it, used on teak decks its very grippy, im old fashioned i use old fashioned products and techniques hardly taught today in the trade.

If i had a wood yacht or built one from scratch the traditional method is this, old fashioned pink primer which is hard to get, the dutch make the best, so pink primer essentially is very oily due to linseed, it bites into the wood and makes and furry grain stand up you then sand it nice and smooth, you then use oil based undercoat which fills the grain, after sanding and old fashioned oil based filler is use to fill imperfections, you then sand this back dead smooth,
my method for applying finish coats is using your chosen oil enamel i make a half and half mix so half undercoat half enamel, adding a wee bit linseed and turps ill use a roller and foam is best a good quality wide brush to lay off this coat, working in small sections until finished, a further sand using 240 aluminium oxide paper and any touch up filling done, technically id then do a three coat of the finishing enamel, a drop of 2 K hardner can be added to last coat, given time to dry you end up with ultra smooth high gloss finish, totally fine for timber boats, the good thing is touching up is easy, when time comes to freshen the paint off you just knock the gloss finish off it and refinish, oil based paints weather naturally.

GRP is a different story, gelcoat is the first thing that is applied to a mould, susbsequent layets of glass when the hull is removed its already finished, gelcoat is not easy to gelcoat its crap to use, crap to spray , crap to replucate the factory finish, getting a paint like two pack urethane to last ontop of gelcoat is difficult too,
My system is a repair to any cracks and a real good sand, i then just throw the polyurethane enamel straight on, I dont bother with undercoat, this is my lil vintage Caribbean Galaxy, this boat currently has 6 coats of white 4 coats yellow, both is polyurethane enamel I idid it by hand its glassy smooth and hard as stone, sadly i gotta get rid off this lil guy, i need the money to blow on Tern.
Pulling off a good paint job is hard work, fiddly, but the satisfaction is enormous and its cheap in comparison to sending it off to a yard.

It's water based enamel not acrylics in my opinion oil based acrylic paints are crap far better water based enamels out now with uv protection and all the technology thrown in to give you at least 5 years before re coat.

Water based enamel , water based acrylics are much the same both are based on water both are equally useless, maybe water based might be ok on top deck , using it below waterline, well you will have big blisters full of sea water in no time, i will never be sold on any water based paint being ok for anything to do with a vessel subjected to the elements we get in this country

Just to clarify any paint made for domestic market using water is classed as acrylic paint, the enamel side of means it has slightly different base so different polymers, still full of water, polymer, titanium oxide, ammonia. The gloss level of water enamels is crap, there full gloss about on par with real enamel semi gloss, i love satin enamel as a finish but its not designed to be used outside, i will be using satin off white in the cabin.
Real enamel ranges from flat, low sheen, satin, semi, full gloss, first four are inside only, full gloss enamel ok for sheltered exterior, the sun flogs the guts out of it.
Now industrial and paints made specifically for steel outside open a huge range of suitable products, epoxy enamels are great, for the budget minded yachties and thats me i dont got heaps of surplus money laying around to shoot a lazy 20 grand at a yard to do it, my budget is more like 20 bux and it must last a lifetime lol thats never gonna happen, im lucky i guess to have my trade behind me.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..
Aldi metal enamel is good on fibreglass hulls. Particularly good to spray. I use it on my dinghies, boat and car trailer etc. About $10 a litre. Gelcoat on my yacht is not perfect, only 39 years old but it wont be seeing paint for a fair while yet. There was a 40 year old Bertram on the slips during the week that had a superb gelcoat, far better than what you see on new yachts.

Indeed ramona, there are some very fussy people that look after there boats.

Select to expand quote

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..
So a clear coat of what over this?

Dont put this crap on a yacht, i kniw in the uk the swing is to water based ever for cars, in my years i used plenty of this stuff, might be ok in a house but no good in the weather, proplem here is acrylic water based paints stretch, if you put a clear over coat on it shes gonna crack, come time to recoat its gonna be a turd fight, the acrylic flexs the enamel clears dont stretch, having said that sikkens yacht laquer has some stretch too it, used on teak decks its very grippy, im old fashioned i use old fashioned products and techniques hardly taught today in the trade.

If i had a wood yacht or built one from scratch the traditional method is this, old fashioned pink primer which is hard to get, the dutch make the best, so pink primer essentially is very oily due to linseed, it bites into the wood and makes and furry grain stand up you then sand it nice and smooth, you then use oil based undercoat which fills the grain, after sanding and old fashioned oil based filler is use to fill imperfections, you then sand this back dead smooth,
my method for applying finish coats is using your chosen oil enamel i make a half and half mix so half undercoat half enamel, adding a wee bit linseed and turps ill use a roller and foam is best a good quality wide brush to lay off this coat, working in small sections until finished, a further sand using 240 aluminium oxide paper and any touch up filling done, technically id then do a three coat of the finishing enamel, a drop of 2 K hardner can be added to last coat, given time to dry you end up with ultra smooth high gloss finish, totally fine for timber boats, the good thing is touching up is easy, when time comes to freshen the paint off you just knock the gloss finish off it and refinish, oil based paints weather naturally.

GRP is a different story, gelcoat is the first thing that is applied to a mould, susbsequent layets of glass when the hull is removed its already finished, gelcoat is not easy to gelcoat its crap to use, crap to spray , crap to replucate the factory finish, getting a paint like two pack urethane to last ontop of gelcoat is difficult too,
My system is a repair to any cracks and a real good sand, i then just throw the polyurethane enamel straight on, I dont bother with undercoat, this is my lil vintage Caribbean Galaxy, this boat currently has 6 coats of white 4 coats yellow, both is polyurethane enamel I idid it by hand its glassy smooth and hard as stone, sadly i gotta get rid off this lil guy, i need the money to blow on Tern.
Pulling off a good paint job is hard work, fiddly, but the satisfaction is enormous and its cheap in comparison to sending it off to a yard.

It's water based enamel not acrylics in my opinion oil based acrylic paints are crap far better water based enamels out now with uv protection and all the technology thrown in to give you at least 5 years before re coat.

Water based enamel , water based acrylics are much the same both are based on water both are equally useless, maybe water based might be ok on top deck , using it below waterline, well you will have big blisters full of sea water in no time, i will never be sold on any water based paint being ok for anything to do with a vessel subjected to the elements we get in this country

Just to clarify any paint made for domestic market using water is classed as acrylic paint, the enamel side of means it has slightly different base so different polymers, still full of water, polymer, titanium oxide, ammonia. The gloss level of water enamels is crap, there full gloss about on par with real enamel semi gloss, i love satin enamel as a finish but its not designed to be used outside, i will be using satin off white in the cabin.
Real enamel ranges from flat, low sheen, satin, semi, full gloss, first four are inside only, full gloss enamel ok for sheltered exterior, the sun flogs the guts out of it.
Now industrial and paints made specifically for steel outside open a huge range of suitable products, epoxy enamels are great, for the budget minded yachties and thats me i dont got heaps of surplus money laying around to shoot a lazy 20 grand at a yard to do it, my budget is more like 20 bux and it must last a lifetime lol thats never gonna happen, im lucky i guess to have my trade behind me.

Those " epoxy enamels " have sweet f*** all to do with epoxy mostly just zinc rich oil base and clean up in diesel. Best I've found so far in single Pak has been Dulux jet dry, paving paint clean up turps minimum, better with thinners, the really fast drying stuff is a pita for anything other than horizontal surfaces tho cause it starts out very runny drys quick and hard, but it is possible to get a good finish that's dry in no time. I guess it's got a different a sort of solvent / hardener ?
.

water based enamel is an oxymoron !!! there is only one enamel and its oil based !!!

Select to expand quote

woko said..

Those " epoxy enamels " have sweet f*** all to do with epoxy mostly just zinc rich oil base and clean up in diesel. Best I've found so far in single Pak has been Dulux jet dry, paving paint clean up turps minimum, better with thinners, the really fast drying stuff is a pita for anything other than horizontal surfaces tho cause it starts out very runny drys quick and hard, but it is possible to get a good finish that's dry in no time. I guess it's got a different a sort of solvent / hardener ?
.

Have not tried the Dulux paving paint but I always used White Knight oil based paving paint on my timber fishing boat. The only paint that could handle the wear and abrasions. Only paint that would last on hardwood gunwales. Stock range of colours.



Net boat is foam glass construction and is sprayed with two pot

Whilst we are on the subject of paint has anybody had any experience using this: shedheads.net/raptor-liner/

One of my young blokes mates swears by it although he has yet to use it on his boat. The job he did on his car is very impressive.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

woko said..

Those " epoxy enamels " have sweet f*** all to do with epoxy mostly just zinc rich oil base and clean up in diesel. Best I've found so far in single Pak has been Dulux jet dry, paving paint clean up turps minimum, better with thinners, the really fast drying stuff is a pita for anything other than horizontal surfaces tho cause it starts out very runny drys quick and hard, but it is possible to get a good finish that's dry in no time. I guess it's got a different a sort of solvent / hardener ?
.

Have not tried the Dulux paving paint but I always used White Knight oil based paving paint on my timber fishing boat. The only paint that could handle the wear and abrasions. Only paint that would last on hardwood gunwales. Stock range of colours.



Net boat is foam glass construction and is sprayed with two pot

Sweet old girl, unfortunately a paint that will last to knocks that gunnels gets doesn't exist, just keep touching them up bout all you can do

Select to expand quote

woko said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

southace said..
So a clear coat of what over this?

Dont put this crap on a yacht, i kniw in the uk the swing is to water based ever for cars, in my years i used plenty of this stuff, might be ok in a house but no good in the weather, proplem here is acrylic water based paints stretch, if you put a clear over coat on it shes gonna crack, come time to recoat its gonna be a turd fight, the acrylic flexs the enamel clears dont stretch, having said that sikkens yacht laquer has some stretch too it, used on teak decks its very grippy, im old fashioned i use old fashioned products and techniques hardly taught today in the trade.

If i had a wood yacht or built one from scratch the traditional method is this, old fashioned pink primer which is hard to get, the dutch make the best, so pink primer essentially is very oily due to linseed, it bites into the wood and makes and furry grain stand up you then sand it nice and smooth, you then use oil based undercoat which fills the grain, after sanding and old fashioned oil based filler is use to fill imperfections, you then sand this back dead smooth,
my method for applying finish coats is using your chosen oil enamel i make a half and half mix so half undercoat half enamel, adding a wee bit linseed and turps ill use a roller and foam is best a good quality wide brush to lay off this coat, working in small sections until finished, a further sand using 240 aluminium oxide paper and any touch up filling done, technically id then do a three coat of the finishing enamel, a drop of 2 K hardner can be added to last coat, given time to dry you end up with ultra smooth high gloss finish, totally fine for timber boats, the good thing is touching up is easy, when time comes to freshen the paint off you just knock the gloss finish off it and refinish, oil based paints weather naturally.

GRP is a different story, gelcoat is the first thing that is applied to a mould, susbsequent layets of glass when the hull is removed its already finished, gelcoat is not easy to gelcoat its crap to use, crap to spray , crap to replucate the factory finish, getting a paint like two pack urethane to last ontop of gelcoat is difficult too,
My system is a repair to any cracks and a real good sand, i then just throw the polyurethane enamel straight on, I dont bother with undercoat, this is my lil vintage Caribbean Galaxy, this boat currently has 6 coats of white 4 coats yellow, both is polyurethane enamel I idid it by hand its glassy smooth and hard as stone, sadly i gotta get rid off this lil guy, i need the money to blow on Tern.
Pulling off a good paint job is hard work, fiddly, but the satisfaction is enormous and its cheap in comparison to sending it off to a yard.

It's water based enamel not acrylics in my opinion oil based acrylic paints are crap far better water based enamels out now with uv protection and all the technology thrown in to give you at least 5 years before re coat.

Water based enamel , water based acrylics are much the same both are based on water both are equally useless, maybe water based might be ok on top deck , using it below waterline, well you will have big blisters full of sea water in no time, i will never be sold on any water based paint being ok for anything to do with a vessel subjected to the elements we get in this country

Just to clarify any paint made for domestic market using water is classed as acrylic paint, the enamel side of means it has slightly different base so different polymers, still full of water, polymer, titanium oxide, ammonia. The gloss level of water enamels is crap, there full gloss about on par with real enamel semi gloss, i love satin enamel as a finish but its not designed to be used outside, i will be using satin off white in the cabin.
Real enamel ranges from flat, low sheen, satin, semi, full gloss, first four are inside only, full gloss enamel ok for sheltered exterior, the sun flogs the guts out of it.
Now industrial and paints made specifically for steel outside open a huge range of suitable products, epoxy enamels are great, for the budget minded yachties and thats me i dont got heaps of surplus money laying around to shoot a lazy 20 grand at a yard to do it, my budget is more like 20 bux and it must last a lifetime lol thats never gonna happen, im lucky i guess to have my trade behind me.

Those " epoxy enamels " have sweet f*** all to do with epoxy mostly just zinc rich oil base and clean up in diesel. Best I've found so far in single Pak has been Dulux jet dry, paving paint clean up turps minimum, better with thinners, the really fast drying stuff is a pita for anything other than horizontal surfaces tho cause it starts out very runny drys quick and hard, but it is possible to get a good finish that's dry in no time. I guess it's got a different a sort of solvent / hardener ?
.

Any oil based paint will clean with Dieso kero, turps is just ****, so the old jet dry is not bad kucka, the solvent is turps, it's a qwick dry enamel, can't remember its actual make but its alkyd based with a **** ton of dryers added

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

woko said..

Those " epoxy enamels " have sweet f*** all to do with epoxy mostly just zinc rich oil base and clean up in diesel. Best I've found so far in single Pak has been Dulux jet dry, paving paint clean up turps minimum, better with thinners, the really fast drying stuff is a pita for anything other than horizontal surfaces tho cause it starts out very runny drys quick and hard, but it is possible to get a good finish that's dry in no time. I guess it's got a different a sort of solvent / hardener ?
.

Have not tried the Dulux paving paint but I always used White Knight oil based paving paint on my timber fishing boat. The only paint that could handle the wear and abrasions. Only paint that would last on hardwood gunwales. Stock range of colours.



Net boat is foam glass construction and is sprayed with two pot

Very nice boat, I like it

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

woko said..

Those " epoxy enamels " have sweet f*** all to do with epoxy mostly just zinc rich oil base and clean up in diesel. Best I've found so far in single Pak has been Dulux jet dry, paving paint clean up turps minimum, better with thinners, the really fast drying stuff is a pita for anything other than horizontal surfaces tho cause it starts out very runny drys quick and hard, but it is possible to get a good finish that's dry in no time. I guess it's got a different a sort of solvent / hardener ?
.

Have not tried the Dulux paving paint but I always used White Knight oil based paving paint on my timber fishing boat. The only paint that could handle the wear and abrasions. Only paint that would last on hardwood gunwales. Stock range of colours.



Net boat is foam glass construction and is sprayed with two pot

Very nice boat, I like it