Any tips for re-painting topsides with beautiful stick-on vynil name/number/port on the transom????
I could never cut around all the letters.

Awlgrip have excellent product and application web links for rolling and tipping a new 2 pack polyurethane topside finish on - see a good summary article and youtube here and Awlgrip themselves have a suitable articles and videos.............

www.fortifiedoceanic.com.au/blogs/news/professional-tips-for-rolling-and-tipping-awlgrip



www.awlgrip.com/north-america/cases

There must be some slipways in Melbourne who are known for their excellence in this work.

As for your stick on vinyl name/number/port the only way to go is to a suitable company who does this professionally - the whole lot would be on one clear plastic locating sheet - on application the backing paper adhered to the stick on side of the signage is carefully removed and the lot applied smoothly without crinkling anything - so a 2-3 person job. Leave it for a suitable time then removed the clear plastic locating sheet. Two such companies are as below. There would be similar in Melb - not sure where boatstickers is located. Note that the vinyl of boat signage needs to be heavier weight than land based applications etc.

www.boatnames.com.au/contact/

boatstickers.com.au/boat-stickers-product-guide/

If the paint in the area of the name plate / sticker is ok, how about masking an oval shaped section around the name plate, leave it as is. Would work best if you were changing topside colour rather than trying to match in, or you could paint a border around the lettering and disguise the colour difference that way ?

Thanks Woko, and for the others, the photo shows lettering as is now (from last anti-foul).
And looking at this I realise I was not going to paint deck/coamings anyway. Perhaps a mask out of the lower lines would work. Starboard side has significantly more marina rash than port.

Before committing to refinishing, have a look at wet sanding. The guys who do this for a living get some amazing results.

MM, by wet-sanding are you meaning re-finishing without re-painting or as preparation for re-painting. NB the current surface is paint, not gelcoat.

Yeah nah..wetsanding is for gelcoat

Do a fair bit of testing before you get onto the topsides job. A mate of mine does topsides with a roller for his job. He uses Alexseal and can get very nice results. I get good results with Watty PolyU 400 (which is about 8 times cheaper) but I have to push the retarding thinners up to 20% instead of the recommended 5%. What you need is time, time to keep a wet edge of the paint and also allow it to "pull" and get smooth. I don't tip, I use 4mm mohair rollers - I never use foam - it imparts ways too many tiny bubbles into to the paint. I use Trojan rollers from Bunnings. Never go over the paint for a second coat when wet like in spraying - it will pull off the mohair and make the paint job furry. Wait until it goes hard - sand lightly with 240 or 320 and then paint again. I often just need one coat but two is fine. I would just remove your letters and do the transom when I do the topsides. Easy to buy and put them on when the paint is all done.

At the risk of telling anyone how to suck eggs - remember that much of the painting job is good prep. I really like to roll on two coats of Wattyl UC 230 High build and then do a super light guide coat (I have used old enamel black paint thinned to the max and wipe it over the surface with a rag - it looks awful). Sand down with 180 and then 240 until all the guide coat is gone. Then you are guaranteed a good surface which the top coat will like to stick to. If you want to pay trade at the Wattyl stores, go in and ask for the correct paints and thinners in the 5 litre packs (4 litres Part A and 1 litre Part B). Go in your painted clothes and ask if they can do you a trade deal. The guys at my locak often find me an account I get to use and then pay with the card. I never, ever, ever buy paint or resins from Whitworths.

Thanks Phil. I did the topsides of a Farr 727 with the roll and tip method, using Norglass 2 pack paints. It turned out ok but if I did it again it would have turned out a lot better after the first go learnings. Can you expand on sanding which is a critical part of the prep as you allude to - I assume you used long torture boards fore and aft with 2 persons one on each end - if so what length, width and thickness of the boards. Thanks in advance.

Sanding with 2 part epoxy primer is done AFTER fairing. Fairing is done with epoxy filler and then longboarded. I have longboarded 38ft boats with 1 metre long longboards. I like to use the bead and cove method but this is when the hull is quite rough after glassing. If you have a boat that just needs a little love then you can use a one metre long board to check for fairness. I have a few different boards - 1 to 1.2 metres long. My favourite is just a piece of 25mm Klegecell the same width as a sanding roll (125mm I think). If you go over a surface with a longboard it will pivot and touch on the high spots. If you put some chalk on the board it will chalk up all the high spots. Then lay the board over the low spots. Hopefully the gaps under it are less than 1 mm and you can just roll on some extra high build and not have to do epoxy filler fairing - that is much more of a pain. As for Norglass - I would stay away from them. My mate who does rolling for a living has told me plenty of examples of people trying to get it to work but it is very thin and dries too quickly. The ideal is to get a really long working time when rolling - up to 15 minutes. My mate can stop and have a can of coke and then pick up again. His boats look really good and although he tries to retire people keep getting him to do their boats. Torture boarding a monohull topsides up to say 30ft should only take about a day to get it quite nice. It goes slow when you have to fill again. I start really rough - using 40 grit paper on filler but then pulling back to 80 bgrit on the board and even 120. Then a nice couple of coats of clear epoxy and then we are onto high build. Two coats of rolled on high build are good and then you are onto power sanding with an orbital or random orbital. But play with a dinghy or something else before you start painting topsides. I have only one paint that I know - Wattyl PolyU 400 with 20% L 754 retarding thinners. I would not use another paint if you gave it to me free because it takes serious time to understand a paint system. So paint your dinghy or something else first and make your mistakes and sand them off and do it again before you slip the boat. Don't buy the paint and try to get it right for the first time on your topsides.

Great thanks for this comprehensive response. Will look into the Wattyl system.

Great thanks for this comprehensive response. Will look into the Wattyl system.

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r13 said..
Great thanks for this comprehensive response. Will look into the Wattyl system.

So will I !!
Thanks KK.

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Kankama said..
Do a fair bit of testing before you get onto the topsides job. A mate of mine does topsides with a roller for his job. He uses Alexseal and can get very nice results. I get good results with Watty PolyU 400 (which is about 8 times cheaper) but I have to push the retarding thinners up to 20% instead of the recommended 5%. What you need is time, time to keep a wet edge of the paint and also allow it to "pull" and get smooth. I don't tip, I use 4mm mohair rollers - I never use foam - it imparts ways too many tiny bubbles into to the paint. I use Trojan rollers from Bunnings. Never go over the paint for a second coat when wet like in spraying - it will pull off the mohair and make the paint job furry. Wait until it goes hard - sand lightly with 240 or 320 and then paint again. I often just need one coat but two is fine. I would just remove your letters and do the transom when I do the topsides. Easy to buy and put them on when the paint is all done.

Hey @Kankama you mention above that you have used 4mm mohair rollers for painting with Wattyl Poly U400. In an earlier post you made two years ago you said "I also used a short nap microfibre roller from Bunnings"

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/2-pack-paint-recommendations-for-topsides-and-hull-?page=1

Which do you recommend, 4mm mohair or microfibre?

Also, I can't find a "trojan" brand roller at the Bunnings website or elsewhere. They sell a Uni-Pro branded 5mm nap 100mm mohair roller and a 4mm nap 100mm micro-fibre roller, but neither description explicitly states these as being solvent resistant as far as I can tell.

I've been reading your posts with interest and also the advice of others as I am putting my boat onto hardstand in a few weeks and hope to paint the topsides and deck. I am leaning towards using the Wattyl Poly U400 for that, although I am planning to use Altex Epoxy Barrier Undercoat instead of Epinamel, because I'm also going to be stripping all the antifoul back to gel coat. I plan on sticking with Altex No5 Plus for the antifoul and they are very specific about applying the first coat onto a tacky coat of their epoxy primer. Also, if I use the one epoxy primer across the whole boat it should be more economic with less wastage and I can pick up a 10l kit for $307 online (Fortified Oceanic).

Thanks in advance for your reply.

I just started repainting the deck this week. Have started on the bulwarks first. The boat was done in awlgrip in the past. The international paint rep came out to the boat to look at the issues and advise on a system to repaint.

He recommended perfection pro for rolling and tipping. I have to removed paint that is failing, dand and spot fill, 3 coats of primer, 3 coats of undercoat and two or 3 top coats. I will post some pics on how it goes.

I have used poly u400 in the past to spray but this is the first time I have rolled and tipped.

I've found there's a 50/50 chance of either the mohair or microfibres pulling hair/ fibre out some do some don't ( out of the same packet) recently I've been getting good results from the unipro foam roller, I have seen the bubble effect and then tried to replicate it for some nonslip in the dinghy and I ended up with smooth shiny slippery, doh ! They do swell up after awhile with the hardtop but the jotamastic doesn't seem to affect them. For what its worth anything that really matters, like a topside job I will be using rollers designed for 2pak. Ps I bought some dulux branded mini rollers that didn't lose hair but couldn't roll a straight line, they were terrible

I read the reviews on the Bunnings rollers and lots of people dislike them. I do have to pick fluff out of them IF and this is a big if, IF the paint is not thin enough. Thick paint will pull them apart.

It's not a bad way to know you have too little thinners or that you are repainting way too early. I have tried going over tacky paint and the rollers fall to bits. But if I have thin paint and only roll when the surface is not tacky they work really well.

www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-100mm-little-ripper-microfibre-mini-roller-covers-10-pack-10mm-nap_p156023944

These are similar to the ones I use but I couldn't find the 4mm nap on the website. Also remember to wrap tape around the roller and then pull it off, pulling any loose stuff with it.

You couldn't pay me to use foam rollers - the bubbles captured in the rollers are just too much of a pain. Experiment with your own paints - with 20% Wattyl Poly U 400, these rollers work well. My friend who paints boats with a roller for a living buys packs of high quality rollers. I can ask him what brand when I next see him.

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Kankama said..
I read the reviews on the Bunnings rollers and lots of people dislike them. I do have to pick fluff out of them IF and this is a big if, IF the paint is not thin enough. Thick paint will pull them apart.

It's not a bad way to know you have too little thinners or that you are repainting way too early. I have tried going over tacky paint and the rollers fall to bits. But if I have thin paint and only roll when the surface is not tacky they work really well.

www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-100mm-little-ripper-microfibre-mini-roller-covers-10-pack-10mm-nap_p156023944

These are similar to the ones I use but I couldn't find the 4mm nap on the website. Also remember to wrap tape around the roller and then pull it off, pulling any loose stuff with it.

You couldn't pay me to use foam rollers - the bubbles captured in the rollers are just too much of a pain. Experiment with your own paints - with 20% Wattyl Poly U 400, these rollers work well. My friend who paints boats with a roller for a living buys packs of high quality rollers. I can ask him what brand when I next see him.

I purchased some 4mm mohair rollers at bunnings.

Wrap them in masking tape and remove it a couple
of times to get rid of any loose hair before painting

I haven't done any top coats with them yet

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Kankama said..
I read the reviews on the Bunnings rollers and lots of people dislike them. I do have to pick fluff out of them IF and this is a big if, IF the paint is not thin enough. Thick paint will pull them apart.

It's not a bad way to know you have too little thinners or that you are repainting way too early. I have tried going over tacky paint and the rollers fall to bits. But if I have thin paint and only roll when the surface is not tacky they work really well.

www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-100mm-little-ripper-microfibre-mini-roller-covers-10-pack-10mm-nap_p156023944

These are similar to the ones I use but I couldn't find the 4mm nap on the website. Also remember to wrap tape around the roller and then pull it off, pulling any loose stuff with it.

You couldn't pay me to use foam rollers - the bubbles captured in the rollers are just too much of a pain. Experiment with your own paints - with 20% Wattyl Poly U 400, these rollers work well. My friend who paints boats with a roller for a living buys packs of high quality rollers. I can ask him what brand when I next see him.

20-25% Thinners - not 20% paint

Select to expand quote

Kankama said..
I read the reviews on the Bunnings rollers and lots of people dislike them. I do have to pick fluff out of them IF and this is a big if, IF the paint is not thin enough. Thick paint will pull them apart.

It's not a bad way to know you have too little thinners or that you are repainting way too early. I have tried going over tacky paint and the rollers fall to bits. But if I have thin paint and only roll when the surface is not tacky they work really well.

www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-100mm-little-ripper-microfibre-mini-roller-covers-10-pack-10mm-nap_p156023944

These are similar to the ones I use but I couldn't find the 4mm nap on the website. Also remember to wrap tape around the roller and then pull it off, pulling any loose stuff with it.

You couldn't pay me to use foam rollers - the bubbles captured in the rollers are just too much of a pain. Experiment with your own paints - with 20% Wattyl Poly U 400, these rollers work well. My friend who paints boats with a roller for a living buys packs of high quality rollers. I can ask him what brand when I next see him.

Thanks for the reply.

I found what you are suggesting at the bunnings website:UNi-PRO 100mm 4mm Nap Little Ripper Microfibre Mini Roller SetUNi-PRO 100mm Little Ripper Microfibre Mini Roller Covers 10 Pack 4mm Nap

If you get the chance, ask your mate about what brand roller he uses. If I am going to be spending $800 on top coat paint I might as well spend a few extra dollars on the roller. I am booked to haul out on 21 Oct and will give Wattyl a call tmorrow for their advice, then post a new thread here with what I am planning to use to get further advice.

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cammd said..

I just started repainting the deck this week. Have started on the bulwarks first. The boat was done in awlgrip in the past. The international paint rep came out to the boat to look at the issues and advise on a system to repaint.

He recommended perfection pro for rolling and tipping. I have to removed paint that is failing, dand and spot fill, 3 coats of primer, 3 coats of undercoat and two or 3 top coats. I will post some pics on how it goes.

I have used poly u400 in the past to spray but this is the first time I have rolled and tipped.

I hope it's going well. It would be great to see your progress picts and your feedback on how it has gone. Also, how long it has taken.

Couple of pics, first one shows the current state of the pwint on the deck, topsides are still intact although the gloss is gone.

Second pic is the transom with the first coat of undercoat on. Two more coats of undercoat then two topcoats.

Starting to get a feel for the paint and our technique is getting better. I think by the time we are ready for the show coat we will be much better at applying the paint and will get a good result that hopefully is durable for a number of years.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..
Couple of pics, first one shows the current state of the pwint on the deck, topsides are still intact although the gloss is gone.

Second pic is the transom with the first coat of undercoat on. Two more coats of undercoat then two topcoats.

Starting to get a feel for the paint and our technique is getting better. I think by the time we are ready for the show coat we will be much better at applying the paint and will get a good result that hopefully is durable for a number of years.

Cammd, what product stack did you end up going with? What is this undercoat? International or Wattyl? I just had a phone call with Wattyl tech support and am now looking at using Epinamel UC230 (as recommended above by Kankama) as it is high build and can go onto straight onto prepared fibreglass/gelcoat. Keep posting your progress. Thanks.

Select to expand quote

Kankama said..
Do a fair bit of testing before you get onto the topsides job. A mate of mine does topsides with a roller for his job. He uses Alexseal and can get very nice results. I get good results with Watty PolyU 400 (which is about 8 times cheaper) but I have to push the retarding thinners up to 20% instead of the recommended 5%. What you need is time, time to keep a wet edge of the paint and also allow it to "pull" and get smooth. I don't tip, I use 4mm mohair rollers - I never use foam - it imparts ways too many tiny bubbles into to the paint. I use Trojan rollers from Bunnings. Never go over the paint for a second coat when wet like in spraying - it will pull off the mohair and make the paint job furry. Wait until it goes hard - sand lightly with 240 or 320 and then paint again. I often just need one coat but two is fine. I would just remove your letters and do the transom when I do the topsides. Easy to buy and put them on when the paint is all done.

Kankama, what sort of temperatures are you applying the Poly U 400 in when you are using 20% thinner for rolling? Do you always apply in the shade? According to ChatGPT, these are the conditions I can expect in Sydney this month (hauling out in three weeks):

Assumed Climate / Conditions in Sydney late October Daytime ambient temperature: ~ 18-24 ?C (could drop to ~12-15 ?C early morning / evening) Relative humidity: likely moderate (50-70 %)

I'll start off testing/getting the hang of it by painting the washboards and cockpit locker lids first.

Select to expand quote

Jormungadr said..

Cammd, what product stack did you end up going with? What is this undercoat? International or Wattyl? I just had a phone call with Wattyl tech support and am now looking at using Epinamel UC230 (as recommended above by Kankama) as it is high build and can go onto straight onto prepared fibreglass/gelcoat.

I am using International Paints
Primer is Interprotect, 3 or 4 coats 1st coat prior to spot filling
Undercoat is YRA600, 2 coats
Finish will be Perfection Pro, 2 coats (for white)
Thinner is YTA100

Pic below is final undercoat done by brush only this morning.

Looks perfect and correlates with the old school saying "when the undercoat looks like topcoat start the topcoat".

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Kankama said..
At the risk of telling anyone how to suck eggs - remember that much of the painting job is good prep. I really like to roll on two coats of Wattyl UC 230 High build and then do a super light guide coat (I have used old enamel black paint thinned to the max and wipe it over the surface with a rag - it looks awful). Sand down with 180 and then 240 until all the guide coat is gone. Then you are guaranteed a good surface which the top coat will like to stick to. If you want to pay trade at the Wattyl stores, go in and ask for the correct paints and thinners in the 5 litre packs (4 litres Part A and 1 litre Part B). Go in your painted clothes and ask if they can do you a trade deal. The guys at my locak often find me an account I get to use and then pay with the card. I never, ever, ever buy paint or resins from Whitworths.

Thanks for all the advice you have posted. I've been consulting with ChatGPT quite extensivly as well as with Altex and Wattyl tech support because other than to anti-foul the bottom and slap paint onto a tender, I have never attempted to properly paint a boat before. I'm pretty much decided on Wattyl UC230 and Poly U 400 and I am tossing up whether to prime everything with Altex Epoxy Barrier Undercoat first, not just below the water line. Chat GPT has pretty much confirmed the advice you have given regarding application.

Have you used a non-slip aggregate with the Poly U 400? What did you use and what was your technique? Thanks.

Here are the rollers my mate uses

www.tradegear.com.au/products/monarch-100mm-high-density-foam-9mm-nap-mini-roller?variant=40930888614065&country=AU¤cy=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22857583830&gbraid=0AAAAAoLznQyADOwQ_0Gu4ainl4AtWXjgl&gclid=CjwKCAjw6P3GBhBVEiwAJPjmLhyslkYJSZSMu1jMIu-HEuF4xqWoOKuptiGXnVQ9Ww5F9spFWCEh3hoCUNYQAvD_BwE

I have done deck paint with a mix of medium and fine grit from marinetradesupplies.com.au/product-category/boat-paint/altex-paints/anti-skid/

I need to get better at putting it on. Lots of techniques but I am not an expert. My idea of putting it in the paint is okay but not as even as other methods. Maybe watch how these guys do it



cheers

Phil

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Kankama said..
Here are the rollers my mate uses

www.tradegear.com.au/products/monarch-100mm-high-density-foam-9mm-nap-mini-roller?variant=40930888614065&country=AU¤cy=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22857583830&gbraid=0AAAAAoLznQyADOwQ_0Gu4ainl4AtWXjgl&gclid=CjwKCAjw6P3GBhBVEiwAJPjmLhyslkYJSZSMu1jMIu-HEuF4xqWoOKuptiGXnVQ9Ww5F9spFWCEh3hoCUNYQAvD_BwE

I have done deck paint with a mix of medium and fine grit from marinetradesupplies.com.au/product-category/boat-paint/altex-paints/anti-skid/

I need to get better at putting it on. Lots of techniques but I am not an expert. My idea of putting it in the paint is okay but not as even as other methods. Maybe watch how these guys do it

cheers

Phil

Thanks again for your detailed response!

I'm getting closer to finishing my research and ordering product. One more question...

Do I need to remove masking tape after I roll each coat of Poly U 400 polyurethane while it is wet and remask between coats?

Thanks
Mark

Pretty happy with the toe rail, I think I can keep going with the next section