I've got PTSD recently. No it's not work related.
Recently I've went thru serious gale of Gold Coast.
It scare the **** out of me. Safely returned but now each time I'm thinking going out to open ocean my stomach turn upside down and fear getting into me.
Please don't lough.
Would appreciate anyone's advice if anyone got same thing in past and overcome this scare.

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Kryspen said..
I've got PTSD recently. No it's not work related.
Recently I've went thru serious gale of Gold Coast.
It scare the **** out of me. Safely returned but now each time I'm thinking going out to open ocean my stomach turn upside down and fear getting into me.
Please don't lough.
Would appreciate anyone's advice if anyone got same thing in past and overcome this scare.

G'day Kryspen,
Any mongrel that would laugh at that is beneath contempt, mental health should be treated no differently than sustaining a physical injury. It's unfortunate that it still carries a stigma in certain circles, I've long ago realised they are circles I don't want to associate in :).
Good on you for posting, I admire your courage mate.

I was fortunate enough to work with a charity that used sail training as a recovery strategy for PTSD sufferers. My role was to provide the boat one day a week, the charity would supply an experienced crewmember and we would take up to half a dozen clients that ranged from severe to mild PTSD.
On the first outing 'the crew' were typically the most anxious, I rarely got anyone to utter more than mono syllables in response to any questions and I and the co-crew would largely sail the boat for them, concentrating on teaching them the various terms and watch for the changes when we pulled this, eased that.
The second outing, one would get tentative smiles and the occasional conversation. We would encourage participation but again, primarily you are sailing the boat for them. We would get some people agree to take the helm, and we would stand next to them and gently provide basic inputs, steer more left, steer more right, but essentially leave them to stooge anywhere they desired, the idea being to instill a feeling of confidence, not try and turn them into Volvo racers.
By the third outing, we are pushing for them to actively assist in trimming the boat as well as taking the helm. We would keep the intensity dialled way down, simply assign them a winch and let them make a meal of the trim, then point out how to use the telltales or windvane and leave them to make the decisions. It didn't matter if our course track looked like a drunken sailor or the trim was all over the shop, it was all about getting them to communicate with each other and start making decisions that didn't involve the experienced crew. It was designed to build their confidence back up, making autonomous decisions but in baby steps.
By the sixth outing, we would ask them if they wanted to do a WAGS, ie: they would be racing the boat. The overwhelming answer by then was...YES! By this stage , and the most rewarding thing of all, was watching people emerging out of their shells, some (not all) would be chatting with each other, smiling and laughing, you could see their old personality peeking back out and realising it was ok to be themselves.

Some of the most rewarding moments of my sailing was this period. We had the entire spectrum, all walks of life, from professionals to service veterans to single mums that had suffered horrific domestic violence. The good thing was we had an incredible success rate of improving their mental health, so much so it was taken up by a Uni as a test study.

The point of all this is to let you know that it will get better, and don't you dare feel lesser because of your condition, PTSD can impact anyone! Make sure you have support when you try and go sailing, stick to sheltered waters and throw the watch overboard, take your time and focus on the baby steps, getting onto the water, making decisions again, build your confidence slowly and make sure your crew is experienced enough to assist if you do start to get overwhelmed.

If you're in Brisbane mate and you need it, drop me a PM, I'll gladly come sailing with you if this helps.
All the best to you Kryspen, good on you for sharing.
SB

Kryspen you are already on the way out mate and hopefully onto recovery.

I'm watching my wife recently being diagnosed with PTSD, and see the absolute fear and panic it can generate.
Hers is not due to the boat, (car accident) but I could easily visualise it after the gale you mentioned.
I don't think anyone who's been responsible for a boat, their crew, their loved ones etc would consider laughing for one minute.

My only suggestion: After I survived the same car accident, I had what's best described as something like a europhic sort of reset: Not leaping around feeling invincible, maybe a just a true understanding that I'd come through something that could have simply ended me. I got the same a few years ago when a medical diagnoses went the good way. Perhaps you will come to think similar, you got through it, the boat looked after you, you looked after the boat, and ** you really did well after all.



And SB, from so many of your posts, you continue to prove genuinely good people are still amongst us.

Stay well everyone.

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shaggybaxter said..

Kryspen said..
I've got PTSD recently. No it's not work related.
Recently I've went thru serious gale of Gold Coast.
It scare the **** out of me. Safely returned but now each time I'm thinking going out to open ocean my stomach turn upside down and fear getting into me.
Please don't lough.
Would appreciate anyone's advice if anyone got same thing in past and overcome this scare.

G'day Kryspen,
Any mongrel that would laugh at that is beneath contempt, mental health should be treated no differently than sustaining a physical injury. It's unfortunate that it still carries a stigma in certain circles, I've long ago realised they are circles I don't want to associate in :).
Good on you for posting, I admire your courage mate.

I was fortunate enough to work with a charity that used sail training as a recovery strategy for PTSD sufferers. My role was to provide the boat one day a week, the charity would supply an experienced crewmember and we would take up to half a dozen clients that ranged from severe to mild PTSD.
On the first outing 'the crew' were typically the most anxious, I rarely got anyone to utter more than mono syllables in response to any questions and I and the co-crew would largely sail the boat for them, concentrating on teaching them the various terms and watch for the changes when we pulled this, eased that.
The second outing, one would get tentative smiles and the occasional conversation. We would encourage participation but again, primarily you are sailing the boat for them. We would get some people agree to take the helm, and we would stand next to them and gently provide basic inputs, steer more left, steer more right, but essentially leave them to stooge anywhere they desired, the idea being to instill a feeling of confidence, not try and turn them into Volvo racers.
By the third outing, we are pushing for them to actively assist in trimming the boat as well as taking the helm. We would keep the intensity dialled way down, simply assign them a winch and let them make a meal of the trim, then point out how to use the telltales or windvane and leave them to make the decisions. It didn't matter if our course track looked like a drunken sailor or the trim was all over the shop, it was all about getting them to communicate with each other and start making decisions that didn't involve the experienced crew. It was designed to build their confidence back up, making autonomous decisions but in baby steps.
By the sixth outing, we would ask them if they wanted to do a WAGS, ie: they would be racing the boat. The overwhelming answer by then was...YES! By this stage , and the most rewarding thing of all, was watching people emerging out of their shells, some (not all) would be chatting with each other, smiling and laughing, you could see their old personality peeking back out and realising it was ok to be themselves.

Some of the most rewarding moments of my sailing was this period. We had the entire spectrum, all walks of life, from professionals to service veterans to single mums that had suffered horrific domestic violence. The good thing was we had an incredible success rate of improving their mental health, so much so it was taken up by a Uni as a test study.

The point of all this is to let you know that it will get better, and don't you dare feel lesser because of your condition, PTSD can impact anyone! Make sure you have support when you try and go sailing, stick to sheltered waters and throw the watch overboard, take your time and focus on the baby steps, getting onto the water, making decisions again, build your confidence slowly and make sure your crew is experienced enough to assist if you do start to get overwhelmed.

If you're in Brisbane mate and you need it, drop me a PM, I'll gladly come sailing with you if this helps.
All the best to you Kryspen, good on you for sharing.
SB

Appreciate your comments, thank you.
Looks like back to baby steps gaining confidence again.

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shaggybaxter said..

Kryspen said..
I've got PTSD recently. No it's not work related.
Recently I've went thru serious gale of Gold Coast.
It scare the **** out of me. Safely returned but now each time I'm thinking going out to open ocean my stomach turn upside down and fear getting into me.
Please don't lough.
Would appreciate anyone's advice if anyone got same thing in past and overcome this scare.

G'day Kryspen,
Any mongrel that would laugh at that is beneath contempt, mental health should be treated no differently than sustaining a physical injury. It's unfortunate that it still carries a stigma in certain circles, I've long ago realised they are circles I don't want to associate in :).
Good on you for posting, I admire your courage mate.

I was fortunate enough to work with a charity that used sail training as a recovery strategy for PTSD sufferers. My role was to provide the boat one day a week, the charity would supply an experienced crewmember and we would take up to half a dozen clients that ranged from severe to mild PTSD.
On the first outing 'the crew' were typically the most anxious, I rarely got anyone to utter more than mono syllables in response to any questions and I and the co-crew would largely sail the boat for them, concentrating on teaching them the various terms and watch for the changes when we pulled this, eased that.
The second outing, one would get tentative smiles and the occasional conversation. We would encourage participation but again, primarily you are sailing the boat for them. We would get some people agree to take the helm, and we would stand next to them and gently provide basic inputs, steer more left, steer more right, but essentially leave them to stooge anywhere they desired, the idea being to instill a feeling of confidence, not try and turn them into Volvo racers.
By the third outing, we are pushing for them to actively assist in trimming the boat as well as taking the helm. We would keep the intensity dialled way down, simply assign them a winch and let them make a meal of the trim, then point out how to use the telltales or windvane and leave them to make the decisions. It didn't matter if our course track looked like a drunken sailor or the trim was all over the shop, it was all about getting them to communicate with each other and start making decisions that didn't involve the experienced crew. It was designed to build their confidence back up, making autonomous decisions but in baby steps.
By the sixth outing, we would ask them if they wanted to do a WAGS, ie: they would be racing the boat. The overwhelming answer by then was...YES! By this stage , and the most rewarding thing of all, was watching people emerging out of their shells, some (not all) would be chatting with each other, smiling and laughing, you could see their old personality peeking back out and realising it was ok to be themselves.

Some of the most rewarding moments of my sailing was this period. We had the entire spectrum, all walks of life, from professionals to service veterans to single mums that had suffered horrific domestic violence. The good thing was we had an incredible success rate of improving their mental health, so much so it was taken up by a Uni as a test study.

The point of all this is to let you know that it will get better, and don't you dare feel lesser because of your condition, PTSD can impact anyone! Make sure you have support when you try and go sailing, stick to sheltered waters and throw the watch overboard, take your time and focus on the baby steps, getting onto the water, making decisions again, build your confidence slowly and make sure your crew is experienced enough to assist if you do start to get overwhelmed.

If you're in Brisbane mate and you need it, drop me a PM, I'll gladly come sailing with you if this helps.
All the best to you Kryspen, good on you for sharing.
SB

Thank you, appreciate very much

Great question and a great response. First class effort, everybody. I'm proud of you.

hey Kryspen,
Thanks for sharing your experience. While it may have scared you, you got through it and that shows you did lots of things right. You obviously love sailing otherwise your would just walk away. Perhaps just get comfortable again with short duration day sails with someone else in the boat or have a fang in a dingy on a lake. Once you start smiling again the rest will follow.

+1 to above comments, really nice to see people showing empathy in these anxious times

So, Does this unfortunate experience affect you in other ways other than the thought of going out on the water again . I can appreciate the apprehension in going out on the water next time but I'm not sure its PTSD .
For me I would be looking at how come I got caught out there . Did I not check the weather forecasts. What can I do to build up my confidence .
eg. go for a sail with Shaggy, study weather forecasting, do a sailing course , crew in some races. Perhaps mother nature just reminded you she's the boss and don't ignore her warnings.
I got caught in nasty weather with family on my 27footer once without a motor We ended up literally beached on the beach between St. Kilda Marina and Luna Park . The misses never went sailing again and as recent as yesterday would only go on daughters Riv.6000 provided we did not exit the canal. but I don't think she has PTSD .
The girls hopped back on the bike and two of three still go boating 30 years later.

Appreciate all comments, I'm still on my boat and don't think i give up sailing.
I know that i have to go out again, but ATM i wait for better sea condition. Will be just few hrs day out.
Might list myself for crew on another boat it will help.

Before - i did check the weather forecast but I've got caught out.
Thank you all for your kind support, really appreciate .

Like you used get to get taught once, just because you are immediately safe, does not mean you have survived.

A friend of mine was captain of a large container boat that cracked in half in the middle of the Atlantic in a force 11storm he had his wife & two year old daughter on board and the crew wanted to abandon ship but he decided it was safer on the boat for his wife & daughter and he told me he had to pull the gun on the crew to make them stay .
The boat didn't sink but it was broken all through the hull only the deck held it together.
But he's never stepped foot on a boat again and he walked away from 25 year's career.
Ive always thought that gave him ptsd
my wife has it also & really really bad atm it's just lucky I'm able to look after her or she would be hospitalised & it's not nice I've been through that before
So I completely understand but you're willing to tackle it so complete congratulations if you start feeling really depressed go & see your doctor
best of luck

Gday Kryspen

Everyone will have their horror stories but most people get back on the boat. A good friend did the 97 Hobart and was sailing again straight after. I have been caught in a few gales on the east coast but nothing so bad as him. Usually out the next day or week.
Use the opportunity to get better. I stuffed up a forecast 30 years ago and got crunched. Now I am pretty religious about checking Meteye, Predictwind and Windy and do not go out if I am just going to squeeze in before a major blow. Timing is everything. If you wait or move forward your trip by a day or two then you can have a lovely trip, and those with hard and fast plans can have awful trips - be flexible when it comes to the weather and use multiple weather modelling tools that agree. Don't look for what you want - look for a consistent pattern in multiple models (Predict wind have four models) before you think the model is reliable.
Most ocean racers and cruisers have had a bad time offshore and got back out there again. You have learnt that your weather forecast was not correct, so get better at reading more accurate forecasts and don't put yourself in a similar position again. Learning about your own boundaries is a good thing.
In a bit of time you may be able to get out there again in similar conditions. I was fully aware of a gale brewing when I left Jervis one day headed for Sydney but it was at the end of a Hobart trip and I had sailed the same boat for 20 years. As I passed Port Kembla they broadcast a Securite and stated gusts of 45 knots had passed through. But we knew it would blow up and with a scrap of headsail we scooted up the coast, it was a day we had to be alert all the time, harnesses on and extra lashings, but we were very prepared for it and all was fine. For someone not prepared (or going the other way) it would have been awful. With skill and a good boat (and the correct planning) you can handle nasty weather, it just takes baby steps.

Get out there on a good day and try again

cheers

Phil

Having received some good, professional counselling for anxiety (not sailing-related), but not being a professional counsellor, my 2 cents are ...

* Good on you for acknowledging the issue.
* You might know this already, but its not your rational brain setting off the alarms. Its your irrational brain taking over, which doesn't know anything more than fight, freeze or flight. (You need both brains, and the trick is to get them to talk to each other. Also, try to identify the triggers - you might not be able to avoid them, but if you see them coming, you can, at least, know what to expect so that you can, hopefully, manage the situation)
* If I were in your position, the most important question I would ask is "do I want to get back on the water?" You need to say to yourself that you will not be a failure if you say "no". Don't let what you think other people might think be the primary factor in your considerations. If the answer is "no", treat it like so many of life's experiences - good while it lasted, but it had its time, and now its time for something else. If you answer "yes", then you can begin to plan your return. Importantly, your return will be on your own terms.
* If you plan to return to the water, do it with baby-steps and with trusted people who don't panic or who are impatient. Pick your sailing-buddies.
* Don't set yourself a timetable or deadline or targets. It's OK to go slower, or faster, than you expected. If you're not enjoying it, step away.

Finally, and please don't misunderstand me here, although its good to talk about this stuff, social media is not the best platform for you to get the counselling and support you might need.

Thank you all for kind words and support appreciate very much.
I'm not giving up on sailing, will build my confidence again slowly and carefully.
Back to Moreton bay for time before trying open ocean again.