Morning All,

As we are preparing to rewire the electrical system in Equinox, I think it would be wise to install extra capacity to accommodate for a navigation system to be installed.

At this point I am looking towards a raspberry computer running a windows operating system on which to run open CPN with future capacity to provide inputs/outputs to auto pilot & AIS. After review I like the philosophy behind open CPN, and the ability to have this drive the navigation & piloting system for the boat. I am treating this as a learning experience by building the hardware and operating system ground up from a components & software perspective.

Now as there is a large amount of collective experience here, it would be greatly appreciated if I could have some feedback on the following:

1. If people are using Open CPN in Aust, feedback on general performance and how does it go with local charts?
2. Anybody have a low draw LED/LCD monitor recommendation that could be suitable for installation in the cabin?
3. General feedback on the proposed system?

Thanks in advance for your help

Raymond put up a good link to usb gps a while back
There is a small screen that's available than plugs into your usb pc that where it gets its power from
I'll find thr link tonight
There is also a key board that you place your tablet into a slot on rhe key board then you have a full size key board for even your phone
I can't remember it if windows OS though it runs on android and apple tablets I think it's a logitech
Product
I use pc case gear a lot over the years
Have most things and reasonably priced
There are others like scorpion tech which ok
Aswell
When I build mine I'll probably use a low power mini itx mother board with a low power CPU I have a 12 volt power supply for it some where in one of my stash draws
So it can be a TV video player and a stereo plus s few other things

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LittleBoris said..
Morning All,

As we are preparing to rewire the electrical system in Equinox, I think it would be wise to install extra capacity to accommodate for a navigation system to be installed.

At this point I am looking towards a raspberry computer running a windows operating system on which to run open CPN with future capacity to provide inputs/outputs to auto pilot & AIS. After review I like the philosophy behind open CPN, and the ability to have this drive the navigation & piloting system for the boat. I am treating this as a learning experience by building the hardware and operating system ground up from a components & software perspective.

Now as there is a large amount of collective experience here, it would be greatly appreciated if I could have some feedback on the following:

1. If people are using Open CPN in Aust, feedback on general performance and how does it go with local charts?
2. Anybody have a low draw LED/LCD monitor recommendation that could be suitable for installation in the cabin?
3. General feedback on the proposed system?

Thanks in advance for your help

Excellent idea. I have used Seaclear 2 for more than 20 years. It's similar to Opencpn and is also free. My present system is on a laptop with XP and a 16 inch screen. Check out the set up in my photos. This unit uses a step up dc to dc for the laptop, modern laptops run 19v. My last unit was an older Toshiba that ran happily on 12v direct from the ships battery. On my fishing vessel I used a work station and a 19 inch lcd running off 240v. 16 inches is the bare minimum I would recommend for a plotter. You can't beat real estate and if you have room start looking at 22 inches and up. For the gps puck buy a cable SIRF4 chip unit. For charts, digital admiralty are the best for offshore and convert the msb free charts off their web page for harbour/estuary/river and close coastal stuff. They are far more accurate than the admiralty when in rivers etc.
With your Defiance I would suggest a 22inch 12volt TV/monitor off eBay mounted so that it can rotate and be viewed in the cabin and from your normal steering position. Perhaps use a wireless trackball that you can hang around your neck. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391555432331?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I have an old lcd 22 inch monitor I am trying to work out how to convert to use 12v down to 5v and screw a rasberry on to the back of for a new system and clear my nav table. Just keeping the logitec trackball. The keyboard gets rarely used once it's all set up.

Hi Littleboris,
Make sure the Rasberry is specced up and not the cheapest possible, and pay attention to where you mount it. We used a few cheaper Rasberry variants as IPTV Set top boxes, (ie: streaming video), mounted on Vesa mounts behind monitors and TV's, and the heat from the monitors killed them all within the first year.

This is the specs for the Rom-Arrange ruggedised PC's for an interesting comparison. This cost me about $2.5K with monitor. The Baytrail option (for Android OS style system) is a fair bit cheaper, but I wanted windows OS.
Don't ignore the interface options you need. I like the range of inputs for example Rom-Arrange provides, especially the 4 x Com ports. I have no spare Com ports left on mine, all 4 Com ports are permanently connected. More would have been nice in hindsight.
Might help as an example of some of the systems out there from a price v hardware point of view.


Rom-Arrange PC Fanless L5 Core I5.

Intel i5-4300U Haswell ULT
SO-DIMM (DDR3-1333 / 1600Mhz) 8 GB (16 Max)

-or-

INTEL® Baytrail
SO-DIMM (DDR3-1333/1600Mhz) 4 Go (16 Max)

HDD:
1 x 2.5 "SATA Device (available)
1 x mSATA SSD 120GB Device (up to 1 to optional)
Front:
2 x USB 2.0
4 x COM
2 x Audio
1 x oN / OFF button
1 x reset button
Rear:
2 x HDMI
4 x USB 3.0
2 x USB 2.0
2 x RJ45
1 x Audio
2 x Antenna hole
1 x DC in
Stuff:
DC 9-24V
AC_90 ~ 240V / DC_12V_5A / 60W
0 ° C ~ 50 ° C
2.2kg
185 x 60 x 142 mm
Aluminum

www.pccasegear.com/category/1552/barebone-nuc
usb monitor

www.newegg.com/global/au-en/aoc-e1759fwu-17-3-hd/p/N82E16824160215?Item=N82E16824160215&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAUAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAUAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Monitors%20-%20LCD%20Flat%20Panel-_-N82E16824160215&gclid=Cj0KEQiAnb3DBRCX2ZnSnMyO9dIBEiQAOcXYH10P4usPZqf53KX4jcugtYLcBEpnTA8_BhiKu5UE-9caAlYs8P8HAQ

www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1098331&gclid=Cj0KEQiAnb3DBRCX2ZnSnMyO9dIBEiQAOcXYH_WQITmI15U4TYrVDVCMIpeZiuClCgOIRyT3knl94vAaAoFj8P8HAQ&is=REG&c3api=1876%2C52243848602%2C%2C&IWB=AU&A=details&Q=&pcur=ZAUD


Asus a bit more expensive
www.pccasegear.com/products/37087/asus-mb169c+-15-6in-full-hd-usb-type-c-portable-monitor/

The key board I was saying about below
www.pccasegear.com/products/32168/logitech-k480-multi-device-bluetooth-keyboard-black

www.pccasegear.com/products/34161/intel-compute-stick-with-windows-10/

www.pccasegear.com/products/37371/pc-on-a-stick-prostick-gen4-win-10-pro-4gb---intel-inside/

Depending or whether or not you only care to run OpenCPN or other apps as well, you may be better using a laptop as your hardware. You'll certainly have a lot more flexibility.

In my case, I redeployed a 10-year-old Dell laptop on which I run a bunch of handy nautical apps, not just OpenCPN,. The laptop is connected via a USB/Serial convertor to a serial GPS, which I wrote about it here:
blog.arribasail.com/2013/10/tech-testing-globalsat-mr-350-gps-with-opencpn.html

I make my own digital charts for OpenCPN, by carefully scanning paper charts I own, which I describe here:
blog.arribasail.com/2013/06/tech-making-charts-for-use-with-opencpn.html

I should mention that I have a Raymarine chartplotter as my main navigation tool, and I use OpenCPN as a backup and for navigation planning. It's particularly useful for the person at the helm to be able to use the Raymarine unit, while the navigator is inside using OpenCPN.

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scruzin said..
Depending or whether or not you only care to run OpenCPN or other apps as well, you may be better using a laptop as your hardware. You'll certainly have a lot more flexibility.

In my case, I redeployed a 10-year-old Dell laptop on which I run a bunch of handy nautical apps, not just OpenCPN,. The laptop is connected via a USB/Serial convertor to a serial GPS, which I wrote about it here:
blog.arribasail.com/2013/10/tech-testing-globalsat-mr-350-gps-with-opencpn.html

I make my own digital charts for OpenCPN, by carefully scanning paper charts I own, which I describe here:
blog.arribasail.com/2013/06/tech-making-charts-for-use-with-opencpn.html

I should mention that I have a Raymarine chartplotter as my main navigation tool, and I use OpenCPN as a backup and for navigation planning. It's particularly useful for the person at the helm to be able to use the Raymarine unit, while the navigator is inside using OpenCPN.

The old Dell laptop is certainly the cheapest and easiest way to go. Removing the battery reduces the power demand as well. The older ones with 4:3 ratio screens suit nav charts better. I just bought another one a few weeks ago for my race car engine tuning. $50. Runs XP as does my yachts unit. Windows 98 extra is more than capable of running Seaclear or Opencpn.
Scanning paper charts is OK if your desperate but will not be anywhere as good as digital charts when fully zoomed at 400%. The advantage of using Seaclear or Opencpn is the ability to swap digital charts with friends or just grab them off the web. If you can get between 2 and 4 co ordinates of a chart then you can calibrate and load. Make a series of charts for your area that are 20 to 30 miles across, calibrate and load. As you transit the charts will just automatically change to the right one. With digital you wont see the grain in the paper.

In LittleBoris's case the 22 inch 12v TV and the computer on a stick HG02 linked to above might be a good starting point for an entertainment/nav station. The charts and programme take up very little storage.

I've scanned most of the charts for SA coastal waters, including overlapping ones at different scales, and OpenCPN swaps in the charts automatically you describe. You just have to be careful to specify the correct scale when you create your chart.

Where is a good source of free digital Australian charts?

Where are the "MSB charts" that you mentioned above?

Good point about removing the laptop battery. When the original battery wore out I yanked it out and never bothered to replace it.

While on the subject of navigation systems would a tablet with a built in gps and running navionics work without coverage ? I seem to draw blank stares from the staff at Harvey Norman,Jb Hi Fi when I ask this.

Cheers for the responses (Ramona, Shaggy, HG & SC), I note the laptop option but I would prefer a permanent processor solution as I found laptops generally have a limited life in harsh environs.

Looking on ebay it seems I can get a 22inch 12 volt screen and the latest raspeberry Pi 3 processeor with keyboard and all cabling for around $280, not a bad price and all that will be needed will be GPS puck. Although I do really like the look of the Breezelite mini PC as so may splash out for that unit.

Whilst I understand why people prefer chart plotters, the far cheaper cost of this alternate system and appeal of building my own set up as I believe I will learn more from is the path than buying an off shelf plotter.

I'll let you know how it goes.....

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't all these solutions draw a lot more current than a plotter? TV about 3 amps, same for a PC. I know the PC solution gives heaps more options, but the options available for a plotter - radar and AIS and grib and tide overlays are not bad. Would be happy to hear Ramonas comment on this.

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PhoenixStar said..
Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't all these solutions draw a lot more current than a plotter? TV about 3 amps, same for a PC. I know the PC solution gives heaps more options, but the options available for a plotter - radar and AIS and grib and tide overlays are not bad. Would be happy to hear Ramonas comment on this.

That's the advantage of a crappy old laptop with a slow processor. In my case, my trusty Dell Inspiron 700m with its ancient Pentium M processor and 12" screen draws only about 1 Amp

Am unsure what a chartplotter draws, sorry, but an 8" 1000 nits sunlight readable display pulls 12V at 0.8 A.

The ruggedised PC pulls 12v at 1-2 amp, and the 15" 500 nits (not sunlight readable) monitor pulls 12V at 2.5amp.
You can upgrade the monitor to a 22" 1000 nits display (sunlight readable) and still pull 2.5A.

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Jayde28 said...
While on the subject of navigation systems would a tablet with a built in gps and running navionics work without coverage ? I seem to draw blank stares from the staff at Harvey Norman,Jb Hi Fi when I ask this.

Yes, I use a budget supermarket tablet and it works brilliantly. You just have to be sure that the tablet has "real" gps and does not emulate it from mobile towers - on one trip it turned out that both iPads did this and could not aquire a location offshore - have not come across an Android device with this problem.

Just make sure you download any chart area you need while on WiFi.

The new auto routing function in Navionics is sensational.

Paper charts, 2 copies of Navionics, saildroid for emergency instruments and an old school garmin hand held gps works really well for me.

Cheers

Bristle

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Bristolfashion said...

Jayde28 said...
While on the subject of navigation systems would a tablet with a built in gps and running navionics work without coverage ? I seem to draw blank stares from the staff at Harvey Norman,Jb Hi Fi when I ask this.

Yes, I use a budget supermarket tablet and it works brilliantly. You just have to be sure that the tablet has "real" gps and does not emulate it from mobile towers - on one trip it turned out that both iPads did this and could not aquire a location offshore - have not come across an Android device with this problem.

Just make sure you download any chart area you need while on WiFi.

The new auto routing function in Navionics is sensational.

Paper charts, 2 copies of Navionics, saildroid for emergency instruments and an old school garmin hand held gps works really well for me.

Cheers

Bristle

Just to add that there are lots of apps in the Google play store which will show you that satellites are being acquired by the gps. Others, such as Anchor alarm programs will also show this info.

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Jayde28 said..
While on the subject of navigation systems would a tablet with a built in gps and running navionics work without coverage ? I seem to draw blank stares from the staff at Harvey Norman,Jb Hi Fi when I ask this.

Tablets are a pain in the butt! Couple of years ago I was walking the streets in Paris using a tablet with a GPS puck and loaded with Seaclear. Viewing in daylight was a problem but then we had a light shower of rain there was only a slight amount of moisture on the screen. It was hopeless, could not do anything. The touch screen just went crazy. Ended up using tourists paper maps. Could not even use the tablets compass app.
The other downside with tablets is they usually only have one mini USB port so you can not recharge and have a real GPS attached. When I got home I sold it on and bought a $4 hand compass to use with tourists maps!

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scruzin said..

PhoenixStar said..
Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't all these solutions draw a lot more current than a plotter? TV about 3 amps, same for a PC. I know the PC solution gives heaps more options, but the options available for a plotter - radar and AIS and grib and tide overlays are not bad. Would be happy to hear Ramonas comment on this.

That's the advantage of a crappy old laptop with a slow processor. In my case, my trusty Dell Inspiron 700m with its ancient Pentium M processor and 12" screen draws only about 1 Amp

I'm putting a finger in each pie . Ive a lap top and Ill fit a plotter on deck and the lappy down stairs. plus my silly tablet as a stand by down stairs
I hope to buy a old sexton and a DIY book on the subject just al cheapo and get plenty of practice .

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PhoenixStar said..
Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't all these solutions draw a lot more current than a plotter? TV about 3 amps, same for a PC. I know the PC solution gives heaps more options, but the options available for a plotter - radar and AIS and grib and tide overlays are not bad. Would be happy to hear Ramonas comment on this.

The PC option is vastly superior to any high end plotter. Plotters have come a long way but the home PC just does everything. Not considering going online but just using an old laptop for navigation you can tailor make charts for what ever use you like. Type in waypoints [millions of them], drag and drop then into new positions. When I was working I would have charts that covered an area of a mile or so and have a handful of waypoints on one side. If I was droplining I would be dragging and dropping the waypoints marking my lines or points of interest off the sounder. The trawlers do the same when trawling and mark certain depths with different symbols as they travel. After a few weeks they end up with detailed charts showing contours.
The other advantage is I can have the whole programme and charts on a USB stick and step onto any boat with a laptop and navigate.
The downside until recently is the problem of 12v power supply. The set up DC to DC converters 12v to 19v consumes power as well as the laptop. Getting rid of the battery makes a big difference. The new LED TVs draw very little power. The trick is to find one that is powered direct off 12v and not through a transformer. Computers are generally operating on 5v so we will always have a step down but if we can have only one step down that has to be more efficient. I was going to try and use one of these to power a monitor but now I'm thinking it's not worth the bother.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190913864131?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is the Rasberry kit people seem to be using for their nav staions. www.ebay.com.au/itm/191555043977?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I'm thinking the 12v LED TV and usb stick windows 10 might be the most economical power way at the moment. More thinking required.

Good luck with the sextant HG. Back in the day it was the only way offshore, but if you could get a fix within 5 miles from a small boat you were an expert. So you knew you were within a 10 mile circle. And the spherical trig is a little daunting.

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scruzin said..
I've scanned most of the charts for SA coastal waters, including overlapping ones at different scales, and OpenCPN swaps in the charts automatically you describe. You just have to be careful to specify the correct scale when you create your chart.

Where is a good source of free digital Australian charts?

Where are the "MSB charts" that you mentioned above?

Good point about removing the laptop battery. When the original battery wore out I yanked it out and never bothered to replace it.

There are no legal free digital charts in Australia unlike most other countries where citizens can enjoy the fruits of their hard earned taxes. There are copies of admiralty charts about used by the navy, water police etc. There are programs that use digital charts but they are careful not to have Lat and Long reference points on them to stop people utilizing them. You still can if you use known reference points taken off a paper chart. Google earth of course is handy.
In NSW we have digital charts available from Maritime services. They sell paper charts but also have digital charts free to download in PDF form. These have to be converted to jpg or BMP files in your favourite picture program, calibrated and loaded. They have lat and long on them and are very accurate.
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/using-waterways/maps/boating-maps.html
They have annoying safety messages on them but you can edit around them. This is my home chart and you can see I'm stationary on my mooring.

I'd be interested in your opinions. Does the risk of making an error in converting a free chart for use make buying electronic charts a better - and safer- option?

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Ramona said...

scruzin said..
I've scanned most of the charts for SA coastal waters, including overlapping ones at different scales, and OpenCPN swaps in the charts automatically you describe. You just have to be careful to specify the correct scale when you create your chart.

Where is a good source of free digital Australian charts?

Where are the "MSB charts" that you mentioned above?

Good point about removing the laptop battery. When the original battery wore out I yanked it out and never bothered to replace it.

There are no legal free digital charts in Australia unlike most other countries where citizens can enjoy the fruits of their hard earned taxes. There are copies of admiralty charts about used by the navy, water police etc. There are programs that use digital charts but they are careful not to have Lat and Long reference points on them to stop people utilizing them. You still can if you use known reference points taken off a paper chart. Google earth of course is handy.
In NSW we have digital charts available from Maritime services. They sell paper charts but also have digital charts free to download in PDF form. These have to be converted to jpg or BMP files in your favourite picture program, calibrated and loaded. They have lat and long on them and are very accurate.
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/using-waterways/maps/boating-maps.html
They have annoying safety messages on them but you can edit around them. This is my home chart and you can see I'm stationary on my mooring.

Agree with the comment about nsw boating maps, they are great. At the moment I just use them in conjunction with the Mark 1.0 eyeball.

Alas, I can't seem to find anything similar to that NSW boating website in SA, except for maps of the state's marine parks! Funny how states are very quick to publish maps when they want something in return. I'll keep looking though.

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PhoenixStar said..
Good luck with the sextant HG. Back in the day it was the only way offshore, but if you could get a fix within 5 miles from a small boat you were an expert. So you knew you were within a 10 mile circle. And the spherical trig is a little daunting.

Ha ha ha should keep me occupied Phoenix Star and I'll be looking for the biggest book of knots also

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HG02 said..

PhoenixStar said..
Good luck with the sextant HG. Back in the day it was the only way offshore, but if you could get a fix within 5 miles from a small boat you were an expert. So you knew you were within a 10 mile circle. And the spherical trig is a little daunting.

Ha ha ha should keep me occupied Phoenix Star and I'll be looking for the biggest book of knots also

Just keep Australia on the left as you head north.

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Bristolfashion said..
I'd be interested in your opinions. Does the risk of making an error in converting a free chart for use make buying electronic charts a better - and safer- option?

This is one of the reasons I won't make my geo-referenced scanned charts available to others. It's one thing if I make a mistake and I get in trouble as a result, but all together different if someone else does. The other reason is copyright. Making a personal digital copy is is generally OK under copyright law, whereas as making copies broadly available is not.

That said, the process of making an accurate geo-referenced chart is pretty straightforward, so with care the risk of making an error is minimal.

These aren't free charts as Ramona says they just don't exist here. But considering the price and what you get these are pretty damn close

www.chartandmapshop.com.au/maps

I have OpenCPN running through OpenPlotter using a RPi3. Plenty of grunt and would be a superior computer to a 10 year old laptop. I run mine into a Kogan 22" LED
TV which I also use as the boat TV.

At the helm I use a tablet linked to OpenCPN via VNC server. Haven't perfected that yet, but it's a working progress.

Things to note: when you buy vector charts (s63) you get instal and user permits which are a pain in the arse and a real hassle. If you had scanned raster charts or pirated s63 then the system would be a lot more user friendly.