Went to the local RTM shop here chatting too a yachtie got talking boat mooring lines and fittings, he told me braided line as little a 200 k breaking strain would hold my girl in a storm, so with that I thought 1600 kg breaking strain will do me so picked up 30 meters of braided line, my 10 mm swivel looked cheesy to me so a 16 mm swivel which is almost as heavy as the boat will do, 2 ton rated shackles.
im still stumped on couple things, the chain that attaches to the block itself he recommended 10 mm chain , that sound ok? And how do you attach the line to the swivel, he said tie it, I thought me and knots and actually pulling of a knot that would secure it, which knot would I use? I still like the idea of doubling the rope,

Hey mate, I'm in exactly the same situation. Setting up a swing mooring with new pennant.
Mine is 5ton so I'm going with 16mm 3 strand nylon. I'm still trying to find out what the breaking loads of the swivels are. They all seem to be RWB (brand) galvanised mooring swivels but I guess what has stumped me is how much load am I trying to accomodate? Obviously I'm not trying to pick the whole boat up but what are the loads on a swing moorings gear when it's a full gale or even a storm?
Line to shackle, is as I have seen through all this research, a cow hitch, so slice a loop, pass the loop through the shackle then thread the line through the loop, pulls tight but no chafe or splice a thimble onto the end and thread through the shackle.
What was the breaking load of the 16mm swivel you picked up? Do you know?

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LandofNod said..
Hey mate, I'm in exactly the same situation. Setting up a swing mooring with new pennant.
Mine is 5ton so I'm going with 16mm 3 strand nylon. I'm still trying to find out what the breaking loads of the swivels are. They all seem to be RWB (brand) galvanised mooring swivels but I guess what has stumped me is how much load am I trying to accomodate? Obviously I'm not trying to pick the whole boat up but what are the loads on a swing moorings gear when it's a full gale or even a storm?
Line to shackle, is as I have seen through all this research, a cow hitch, so slice a loop, pass the loop through the shackle then thread the line through the loop, pulls tight but no chafe or splice a thimble onto the end and thread through the shackle.
What was the breaking load of the 16mm swivel you picked up? Do you know?

Gday mate, I don't know the breaking strain of the swivel but the one I got is massive and heavy, the lil piddly 10 mm one I got is like comparing a matchbox car to a truck,, the Tophats I believe are 2.5 ton so mine is overkill but better safe then a drifting yacht causing problems, I got braided rope breaking strain 1500 kilo, my shakers are rated to 2 ton being 13 mm gal with the yellow pin, they said 10 mm chain between block and shackle which I don't like I'll look later in week for chain but it will be not 10 mm, I don't trust thimbles either not if I spliced it lol I couldn't splice my way out of a bread fruit.

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TopHat 25 Mk2 said..

LandofNod said..
Hey mate, I'm in exactly the same situation. Setting up a swing mooring with new pennant.
Mine is 5ton so I'm going with 16mm 3 strand nylon. I'm still trying to find out what the breaking loads of the swivels are. They all seem to be RWB (brand) galvanised mooring swivels but I guess what has stumped me is how much load am I trying to accomodate? Obviously I'm not trying to pick the whole boat up but what are the loads on a swing moorings gear when it's a full gale or even a storm?
Line to shackle, is as I have seen through all this research, a cow hitch, so slice a loop, pass the loop through the shackle then thread the line through the loop, pulls tight but no chafe or splice a thimble onto the end and thread through the shackle.
What was the breaking load of the 16mm swivel you picked up? Do you know?

Gday mate, I don't know the breaking strain of the swivel but the one I got is massive and heavy, the lil piddly 10 mm one I got is like comparing a matchbox car to a truck,, the Tophats I believe are 2.5 ton so mine is overkill but better safe then a drifting yacht causing problems, I got braided rope breaking strain 1500 kilo, my shakers are rated to 2 ton being 13 mm gal with the yellow pin, they said 10 mm chain between block and shackle which I don't like I'll look later in week for chain but it will be not 10 mm, I don't trust thimbles either not if I spliced it lol I couldn't splice my way out of a bread fruit.

Looked at the cowhitch, not sure on that one,


Chalk n cheese lol

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LandofNod said..
Hey mate, I'm in exactly the same situation. Setting up a swing mooring with new pennant.
Mine is 5ton so I'm going with 16mm 3 strand nylon. I'm still trying to find out what the breaking loads of the swivels are. They all seem to be RWB (brand) galvanised mooring swivels but I guess what has stumped me is how much load am I trying to accomodate? Obviously I'm not trying to pick the whole boat up but what are the loads on a swing moorings gear when it's a full gale or even a storm?
Line to shackle, is as I have seen through all this research, a cow hitch, so slice a loop, pass the loop through the shackle then thread the line through the loop, pulls tight but no chafe or splice a thimble onto the end and thread through the shackle.
What was the breaking load of the 16mm swivel you picked up? Do you know?

You can get a 3/4 inch swivel that'll hold anything

The pin in the swivel should be bigger in daimeter than the chain links to which you are attaching it.

I would suggest a nylon riser in 3 strand or braid spliced direct to the swivel. Use a piece of rubber or plastic hose instead of a thimble, have it long enough so that it comes back on itself and secure that with a strong electrical tie. Have enough rope pulled through the hose and splice that. Other side of the swivel attach that with a shackle to your bottom chain and mouse it with a couple of electrical ties or 2mm spectra. Use good quality chain on the bottom and cheap shackles that you replace regularly. Where you propose to have your mooring is subject to a very strong tidal flow and shortly there will be strong Westerlies and your vessel will be subjected to strong winds against the current. It will be sitting sideways to the weather and regularly sailing around your mooring. Ensure you have some abrasion resistant material over your riser where it comes over the bow roller. That blue fire hose is good. Make sure the bow area is free from sharp edges etc.

We are wary about cheap shackles in our mooring ground as cheapies have failed due to corrosion of the pin threads, which are often machined after galvanizing. Some of them are simply rubbish regardless, with very poorly cut threads which will never tighten properly, and the cost difference is insignificant in the overall picture.

The corrosion in the thread allows the pin to loosen and move around, and then it is reliant only on the mousing. Nylon cable tie mousing doesn't survive well in this situation either. They don't tend to fail in heavy conditions as the high forces tend to hold the pin in position. They mostly fail in in moderate to light conditions where things are free to rattle around, allowing the pin to rotate and drop out. So based on our experience, good quality shackles and wire (monel is best) mousing are preferred.

Cheers, Graeme

As for the breaking strain. The breaking strain or "Safe Working Load" is usually about a quarter of the load it will snap at. I have seen shackles rated to 500kg hold 1400kg and it didn't look like it was going to break.

As for 10mm chain, that is ok. I like to be overkill so I would go 12mm that way there is no doubt.

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wongaga said..
We are wary about cheap shackles in our mooring ground as cheapies have failed due to corrosion of the pin threads, which are often machined after galvanizing. Some of them are simply rubbish regardless, with very poorly cut threads which will never tighten properly, and the cost difference is insignificant in the overall picture.

The corrosion in the thread allows the pin to loosen and move around, and then it is reliant only on the mousing. Nylon cable tie mousing doesn't survive well in this situation either. They don't tend to fail in heavy conditions as the high forces tend to hold the pin in position. They mostly fail in in moderate to light conditions where things are free to rattle around, allowing the pin to rotate and drop out. So based on our experience, good quality shackles and wire (monel is best) mousing are preferred.

Cheers, Graeme

When I mentioned cheap shackles I mean the items you buy from Whitworths and other ship chandlers. The shackles need to of a poorer quality than the chain or you will be forever changing the chain. Shackles are cheaper! If you use a mooring contractor use the shackles he supplies, keep away from rated shackles, just use a larger cheap one.

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Ramona said..

wongaga said..
We are wary about cheap shackles in our mooring ground as cheapies have failed due to corrosion of the pin threads, which are often machined after galvanizing. Some of them are simply rubbish regardless, with very poorly cut threads which will never tighten properly, and the cost difference is insignificant in the overall picture.

The corrosion in the thread allows the pin to loosen and move around, and then it is reliant only on the mousing. Nylon cable tie mousing doesn't survive well in this situation either. They don't tend to fail in heavy conditions as the high forces tend to hold the pin in position. They mostly fail in in moderate to light conditions where things are free to rattle around, allowing the pin to rotate and drop out. So based on our experience, good quality shackles and wire (monel is best) mousing are preferred.

Cheers, Graeme

When I mentioned cheap shackles I mean the items you buy from Whitworths and other ship chandlers. The shackles need to of a poorer quality than the chain or you will be forever changing the chain. Shackles are cheaper! If you use a mooring contractor use the shackles he supplies, keep away from rated shackles, just use a larger cheap one.

I got a pile of 13 mm 2 ton shackles from Bunnings, nylon or poly what's the best for the line itself? I need 4.5 meters, water depth is 3 meters, how long should the chain be?
i have a 5/8 swivel biggest I could find though 3/4 are around, I'll use the black rated chain 12-14 mm, mooring block will have three loops of reo bar I'm using a 44 full of cement and old crankshafts, seabed is mud so it should sink enough to hold it,

Sorry guys but you're creating under water batteries!!

Black chain, black swivels and black shackles only with no galv!!

I have found 3 strand to untwist even with a swivel as the swivel fills with crap quickly and doesn't rotate.

I use no swivel and 8 plait line, most boats don't do enough circles to bother it and it untwist as soon as you take the boat off.

It is harder to splice but easy to learn.

Speaking of which, current job splicing 40mm 8 plait for a fish farm!!
And yes this thimble is galv but it's in a low salinity environment and the rope wears out first anyway!

Very nice job

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rumblefish said..
Sorry guys but you're creating under water batteries!!

Black chain, black swivels and black shackles only with no galv!!

I have found 3 strand to untwist even with a swivel as the swivel fills with crap quickly and doesn't rotate.

I use no swivel and 8 plait line, most boats don't do enough circles to bother it and it untwist as soon as you take the boat off.

It is harder to splice but easy to learn.

Speaking of which, current job splicing 40mm 8 plait for a fish farm!!
And yes this thimble is galv but it's in a low salinity environment and the rope wears out first anyway!

Where Tophat25's mooring is going will definitely need a very good swivel. The yacht will be rotating around the mooring several times a day on a good day. During the winter months with tide against the howling Westerlies the yacht at times will be rotating around the mooring once every minute or so!
In situations like this it often pays to install a swivel half way up the riser to keep it clear of the bottom at all times.

My mooring is also in 3 metres in a strong tidal area. I have a train wheel, 5 metres of black 25mm chain, 7 metres of 3 strand nylon riser [to a deck cleat].
This is a shameless selfie from 4 years ago, chain has worn a bit since then. I now use polypropylene spacers over the shackle pins to isolate the different steels a bit.

So many mooring threads ! I won't bore you with my construction details as its horses for courses. If your in a potential wind over tide situation, I recommend setting your buoy up like this, it gives plenty of opportunities to hook it, a knot before the onboard eye splice stops the buoy pendant pulling through and the buoy is easily lifted on board "after" the morning line is made fast. Buoy stays clean and more importantly doesn't bang away at your bow/ topsides!

A good mooring apparatus spec I came across is from across the ditch here; google

waikato regional council swing mooring report ocel

Hi all,
this may have been covered previously but if you make your own mooring apparatus and your boat comes off, for whatever reason, and creates damage to another boat or property, how does your insurance company view this??
There may be a lot of opinions regarding this issue and I know that construction of mooring apparatus and the qualifications of mooring inspectors is a dogs breakfast here in NSW, but has anyone asked their insurance company how they would view a claim for damage resulting from a amateur built mooring failure???
Mike

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Magpiemike said..
Hi all,
this may have been covered previously but if you make your own mooring apparatus and your boat comes off, for whatever reason, and creates damage to another boat or property, how does your insurance company view this??
There may be a lot of opinions regarding this issue and I know that construction of mooring apparatus and the qualifications of mooring inspectors is a dogs breakfast here in NSW, but has anyone asked their insurance company how they would view a claim for damage resulting from a amateur built mooring failure???
Mike

Become a mooring contractor. Go to your local council and put your name down. That's it. Congratulations!

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Ramona said..

rumblefish said..
Sorry guys but you're creating under water batteries!!

Black chain, black swivels and black shackles only with no galv!!

I have found 3 strand to untwist even with a swivel as the swivel fills with crap quickly and doesn't rotate.

I use no swivel and 8 plait line, most boats don't do enough circles to bother it and it untwist as soon as you take the boat off.

It is harder to splice but easy to learn.

Speaking of which, current job splicing 40mm 8 plait for a fish farm!!
And yes this thimble is galv but it's in a low salinity environment and the rope wears out first anyway!

Where Tophat25's mooring is going will definitely need a very good swivel. The yacht will be rotating around the mooring several times a day on a good day. During the winter months with tide against the howling Westerlies the yacht at times will be rotating around the mooring once every minute or so!
In situations like this it often pays to install a swivel half way up the riser to keep it clear of the bottom at all times.

My mooring is also in 3 metres in a strong tidal area. I have a train wheel, 5 metres of black 25mm chain, 7 metres of 3 strand nylon riser [to a deck cleat].
This is a shameless selfie from 4 years ago, chain has worn a bit since then. I now use polypropylene spacers over the shackle pins to isolate the different steels a bit.

Ramona I remember you had to retrieve your boat a little way back, what part let go and have you changed any of the design since?. BTW have you got a licence to show those legs in public?

Thanks Ramona,
but that's not what I asked, my question was.
"this may have been covered previously but if you make your own mooring apparatus and your boat comes off, for whatever reason, and creates damage to another boat or property, how does your insurance company view this??
There may be a lot of opinions regarding this issue and I know that construction of mooring apparatus and the qualifications of mooring inspectors is a dogs breakfast here in NSW, but has anyone asked their insurance company how they would view a claim for damage resulting from a amateur built mooring failure???

If what Ramona says is correct, then doesn't that make an even greater joke of the whole mooring issue. Surely there would be some review of your qualifications and or experience. Shoe salesman today, mooring contractor tomorrow. You've got to do a course to be a Stop & Go (Traffic Solutions Engineer) person these days so why wouldn't you have to have some sort of qualification for moorings. What about insurance companies, wouldnt they want to see some sort of qualification/experience before they either cover mooring contractors, public liability ect or pay out for damage to a boat or property caused by a failed mooring?

Mike

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GKandCC said..

Ramona said..

Ramona I remember you had to retrieve your boat a little way back, what part let go and have you changed any of the design since?. BTW have you got a licence to show those legs in public?

Chinese swivel corroded after about 6 months leaving two saw tooth rows on one end. The teeth were similar to a power hack saw blades and simply cut though the abrasion sleeve and 3 strand nylon riser.

In the recent mooring survey/review the mooring contractors just handed out receipts or in my case it was a matter of a stat. declaration. The BO then did a check and I received a "Congratulations" letter!

As to the batteries issue - galvanising should not be an issue. All my moorings have had gal on swivels and thimbles. The anode is the metal that will lose electrons and degrade. The job of galvanising is to plate the steel so that you get physical protection and then when there are cracks or fissures in the zinc, you get cathodic protection.
So having some parts galvanised will protect all of the steel that is connected to the zinc galvanising. That is how zincs protect propellers and motors. The zinc will lose electrons and degrade, which is what we want to do. Being part of a galvanic cell, is fine if the part you want to keep is the cathode. So use gal swivels and the zinc coating will protect the black steel chain too, but it will make the gal wear away quicker when connected to another cathode.
cheers
Phil