Have this unusual rigged Cat looking for repairs to the rotating 25 meter mast!

Nah, tell him it can't be done and make a silly offer to buy.

So what repairs does it need? Is it strong enough for the loads?

It has 3 nylon/steel collars at deck level middle and lower deck all cracked and broken. The new owners must be devastated . Only 2 of a kind in Australia.

From the photos it looks like all up hill sailing to me

I hear cats rigging is designed to break to stop capsizing. True or not?

Select to expand quote

Craig66 said..
From the photos it looks like all up hill sailing to me

Well yes but not in til insurance pays out to get it fixed properly.

Select to expand quote

southace said..
It has 3 nylon/steel collars at deck level middle and lower deck all cracked and broken. The new owners must be devastated . Only 2 of a kind in Australia.

Probably why you don't see more around.

Select to expand quote

southace said..
It has 3 nylon/steel collars at deck level middle and lower deck all cracked and broken. The new owners must be devastated . Only 2 of a kind in Australia.

Can you get some pics? Collars part of mast or mast supports part of boat? Three supports may be the problem. Uneven load sharing?

Interesting to see this. Who built and designed the boats and rigs?

There are plenty of fans of unconventional rigs who are fond of ranting on the net about how terrible the modern stayed sloop rig is, and how the alternatives are all superior. It's rather disturbing how often they get their facts wrong, even very simple ones. For example they will say that conventional rigs are popular only because they are favoured by rating rules (they aren't - they rate higher than other rigs) or that they are used for racing only when required by rules (they aren't - the rules for skiffs, racing multis, Moths etc don't require conventional rigs but they use them) and how often they fall down. The funny thing is that I have never seen any statistical analysis of how often "unconventional" rigs falls down compared to normal ones.

Considering the previous replies of genuine interest in the "unconventional" rig, i'm not sure where your "Rant" came from Chris.
Yes Yara, maybe the three supports could be the problem, I would have thought 2 beefier supports would be better. Ditching the rotating aspect of it would no doubt simplify things too.

Select to expand quote

Yara said..

southace said..
It has 3 nylon/steel collars at deck level middle and lower deck all cracked and broken. The new owners must be devastated . Only 2 of a kind in Australia.

Can you get some pics? Collars part of mast or mast supports part of boat? Three supports may be the problem. Uneven load sharing?

Probably right. Finns have a top and bottom bearing. Plenty of mono cruisers about with unstayed rotating masts and fixed unstayed masts. With proper under deck support the masts are fine. Catamaran would have substantially more pressure on the bearings. Would seem like it's just a matter of a better design. Canting keel yachts have overcome the bearing problem.

Select to expand quote

BlueMoon said..
Considering the previous replies of genuine interest in the "unconventional" rig, i'm not sure where your "Rant" came from Chris.
Yes Yara, maybe the three supports could be the problem, I would have thought 2 beefier supports would be better. Ditching the rotating aspect of it would no doubt simplify things too.

It came about because some advocates of free-standing rig pretend that free-standing rigs are far more reliable and trouble-free than conventional rigs. This cat is an example of the fact that the claim may be untrue, which is why it would be interesting to find out more about it.

The rest of the rant came about because the claims that freestanding masts are more reliable may be just one more example of the tendency for some fans of alternative rigs to criticise mainstream rigs repeatedly. Have a look (for example) at the stuff the Junk Rig Association members post on Boat Design Forum, or on their own forum. It contains lots of criticism of the "conventional" rigs, including many claims that are simply untrue. The latest topic to be posted on the Sailboats section of Boat Design Forum also contains an unfavourable reference to "conventional" rigs, this time from a cat ketch fan, but also untrue. It just gets a bit tiresome to see so many derogatory remarks about rigs.

None of the above is a criticism of unconventional rigs - I own and love a bunch of them myself. It's just that many owners of unconventional rigs make a lot of incorrect critical remarks about conventional ones, instead of just allowing everyone to enjoy their sailing without criticism.

Looking at the pics, the squareness of the boom and a few details of the boat, it looks amateur designed and built to me.

Plenty of big boats that have done it right, Maltese Falcon for example!!

When rigged what shape is the mainsail dose it bend the mast at all????

I have been informed the insurance accessor arrived today and it might be in the proccesed of getting repaired. The owners are from W.A and possibly not on this forum at the present. however I will be cautious on what second hand gossip I am getting and sharing online.i like unusual boat porn photography. Seen a pic of a 18foot skiff getting used as a boom on a Cat last week!

"Note" They still have led party lights going and there anchor light is on at the top of the 25 meter mast so hopefuly still on the bright side!

search "krazy koyote"

Select to expand quote

lydia said..
search "krazy koyote"

Why? It's coming up as porn sites or bar and grills. You must have a diffrent Google to mine!

Select to expand quote

southace said..
I have been informed the insurance accessor arrived today and it might be in the proccesed of getting repaired. The owners are from W.A and possibly not on this forum at the present. however I will be cautious on what second hand gossip I am getting and sharing online.i like unusual boat porn photography. Seen a pic of a 18foot skiff getting used as a boom on a Cat last week!

"Note" They still have led party lights going and there anchor light is on at the top of the 25 meter mast so hopefuly still on the bright side!

Hope the owners wont mind, but many of us on here are professional engineers, with a genuine interest in the mode of failure, and design, and might have some useful input to offer.

Select to expand quote

southace said..

lydia said..
search "krazy koyote"

Why? It's coming up as porn sites or bar and grills. You must have a diffrent Google to mine!

That is google telling you to behave.
Try "krazy koyote 2 yacht"
plenty of pics.
Had to ban it as IMS could not deal with no standing rigging.
engineering wise it was fine however even if it meant the boat had a bit more freeboard for the mast bury.

One interesting thing about the Krazy Kyote saga was that the owner retired the boat from racing when it was given a 7 second rating penalty for not havin the windage of stays. That's about 1.5%. If unstayed rigs were as effective as some of their fans say, a penalty that small should not have stopped a big-dollar high-tech effort in its tracks.

I love the concept but if I was building a cruising cat i'd look long and hard at a b-plane rig like the Radical Bay 8000.

Less loads plus the cross beam doesn't see the same loads as with a centre mast. And the other big advantage is no centre mast to design around!!

Don't know why pics are posting sideways but here's a few more snaps I took today.
the mast will be coming out if the crane driver can work out how r
to sling it. They have been advised the cat should be removed from the water while removing and refitting the mast.

Pretty sure its a Bob Oram design.

Select to expand quote

southace said..
Don't know why pics are posting sideways but here's a few more snaps I took today.
the mast will be coming out if the crane driver can work out how r
to sling it. They have been advised the cat should be removed from the water while removing and refitting the mast.

Yacht braid. Rolling hitch near the gooseneck and a half hitch near the top. Would be an interesting mast to climb. I guess there are two halyards.

Helped my mate drop the mast on his alloy Cole 42 this morning. Fairly easy job except for one bolt on the keel step gave some grief. Mast weighs somewhere between 300 and 400 kilos.

Will be craning this boat up onto the wharf tomorow morning and then removing the mast for repair to the bearings. I asked how she sailed but was informed the wind was on the nose from qld to south oz I replied with yes welcome to sailing/delivers!

I got it to the wharf without a hitch. A full crew worked 8 hours to get her craned over the the block of land. Tomorrow the boom will come off and the mast lifted up and out to the repairs can get underway.

Hi Southace

In the photo's it looks like they have removed the rudders

Is that correct or is it just a optical illusion ?

Regards Don

Yes donk we removed the rudders before we sat her down on blocks as the kick up pods have issues as well. One pod was full of water. Apparently they had no steerage of victorora and ended up in lakes entrance getting the rudders re-fastened down which failed again once they got underway. but now all will be replaced and over engineered before she heads west after winter. It's a very well built Cat ....well most of it!

I apologise for the poor photography was in a rush and then the phone went flat. For those interested the mast was removed this week and new bearings and engineering is underway. This is a rotating mast not a wing mast and from my understanding the only reason it rotates is to move the boom angles! As you can see only about 1 meter intrudeds into the hull and the 27 meter 900kg mast free stands.