Select to expand quote

Poodle said..

LooseChange said..

Best one I ever saw was a sign in 'murica warning people of a low bridge ahead, on it it stated "If you hit this sign you are going to hit that bridge." Admittedly it was on a road so the tide was always the same. No it wasn't the 11'8" bridge, it was another one.

Too funny to not watch again!!

I am always amazed that Penske has any trucks left after watching the 11'8" debacle.

Select to expand quote

Bananabender said..
Have you researched this company
mastmate
www.mastmate.com.au

Lots of information on the website and received a lengthy and informative response to my enquiry. It looks alarming seeing it in action but I can see the value in it. Particularly as with an 8 metre mast I'd have more than 4m over the back.

Last question here. I'm sure I've got the geometry right. If the side stays are behind the mast step then lowering them aft will cause no problems (albeit I may have to release one set if the bend in the mast doesn't make the lengths the same through the arc??

Select to expand quote

RubikRedDog said..
Last question here. I'm sure I've got the geometry right. If the side stays are behind the mast step then lowering them aft will cause no problems (albeit I may have to release one set if the bend in the mast doesn't make the lengths the same through the arc??

Usually yes, but on the odd occasion the side stays can go tight as you lower the mast and prevent you from lowering the mast further. I had that happen only once on one of the masts and had to use another chain plate to connect the side stays . I have 3 chain plates to chose so didn't need to change the location of the tangs . Ideally you'd have a set of side stays in line with mast step and at the same height as your pivoting point in your mast step so the tension on stays remains the same though the entire mast lowering process and keeps it from swinging sideways.

On another note I got an email from Marine safety regarding the traffic bridge and was told the the Western span of the Mandurah Traffic Bridge has 5.2 metre clearance however due to the presence of the fishing platform and the conflict that would have caused with passing vessels, DoT could not mark this span as the navigable span. But I can use the Western span if is safe to do so, hopefully won't get tangled in too many crab pot lines .

Was also told that "Physical signage of clearance heights may be installed by the bridge owners being either Main Roads or the relevant local government authority however this is not a common practise." So basically any signage we do see on bridges are place there out of the goodness of DoT heart.

Select to expand quote

Harb said..
On another note I got an email from Marine safety regarding the traffic bridge and was told the the Western span of the Mandurah Traffic Bridge has 5.2 metre clearance however due to the presence of the fishing platform and the conflict that would have caused with passing vessels, DoT could not mark this span as the navigable span. But I can use the Western span if is safe to do so, hopefully won't get tangled in too many crab pot lines .

Was also told that "Physical signage of clearance heights may be installed by the bridge owners being either Main Roads or the relevant local government authority however this is not a common practise." So basically any signage we do see on bridges are place there out of the goodness of DoT heart.

Hilarious. I guess Marine safety figure there is more danger to the bridge then the boat that sails underneath it...

hello folks from this relatively new (71 y.o) sailor...about to buy a duncanson 29 with a bit of luck to go bluewater. Have a timpenny for racing. I had a lot of trouble getting volunteers to help hoist the mast on the timpenny for racedays..they did put a value on their lives you know. Especially on windy days. After a lot of over engineering and poor advice i came up with a single person mast lowering system that was foolproof. I am sure it could be adapted for larger (fixed) masts as long as the masts had sufficient clearance under them to swivel. Out of luck if the mast sits flush with deck/mast retain plate.
The main problem with most home systems is the dangerous amount of side movement espec in heavy winds that lose you friends and have all the car and boat owners within forty feet of you pleading for mercy at your antics. In the case of keelboats the fish and dolphins and harmless birds flying by will want a say in all this not to mention bridges power poles and innocent babies in prams.
Side movement can be prevented by using simple ropes with easy to use clip ends, a ratchet trailer winch cheapie secondhand if you can, a square aluminium pole from bunnings perhaps two for keelboat big masts, and, a big stainless steel 2" o ring. Now we are going to design this here and now to show you what works on a trailer sailer with standard jib halyard, the object of the exercise is to demonstrate the sideways twitching death throes restraint that the ropes play then you go out and modify the system to your boat mast etc.
1 cheap trailer winch w/ratchet allows you to hoist/drop and leave mast at any angle while you undo shrouds etc knots etc remove old birds nests from rigging have a smoke etc etc mast will stay put not move around at all at any angle while lowering.
Two bunnings fencing square aluminium posts 2 x 2meters solid hollow three inch or so square with a joiner join the two.Bunnings do have a nice cappucino you know not very expensive.
Length of about 6mm rope or strong enough to support weight of mast which is not much because it is sitting on mast bolt ready to swivel after being loosened. Timpenny is easy mast sits on bolt is grooved on bottom so swivels when forestay let off. Stays on Timp are behind mast so mast tending to fall backwards when forestay let off. Rope has to be 4 times length of mast sort of wait check this first.
Now the main advantage of this system we are building is that it is for single handed safe operation that allows mast to stay in any position any weather to untangle etc even the final dropping of the mast to undo completely is single handed and completely safe. The mast raising and lowering systems offered on the net still have that sideways movement problem this takes care of it. The ropes can be used to complement the internet systems to make them safe. So simple you will impress your family and friends. As with all things to do with masts watch out for power lines.
Stop Press..being 12 am here now we have received a verbal weather report of impending storm if the timpenny mast is not removed from this lounge room and we (me and the two dogs) are not gone to bed forthwith. So folks we will continue this tomorrow with the final coming together of a safe easy way to lower and raise a yacht mast...johnb

Select to expand quote

hipopp said..
...now to show you what works on a trailer sailer with standard jib halyard...

Any chance of posting some photos...the description so far has me totally confused!

I'm keen to figure out how to raise/lower my MB21 trailer sailer mast while on the water...particularly while traversing the power boat highway that is the Freo bridges

be a good idea to give me yout email and i can send you some drawings...johnb

Select to expand quote

Sheikjabooti said..

I'm keen to figure out how to raise/lower my MB21 trailer sailer mast while on the water...particularly while traversing the power boat highway that is the Freo bridges

Have a look on this thread
trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11370

Select to expand quote

Harb said..

Have a look on this thread
trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11370

Thanks for the pointer.
That's a great discussion. I was a little lost in the description, but I think I'll need to try it to figure out the finer points. Would have been good if he posted a picture of the setup. But shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Select to expand quote

Sheikjabooti said..

I think I'll need to try it to figure out the finer points. Would have been good if he posted a picture of the setup. But shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

To prevent side movement with ropes the ends need to be fixed in line with the mast foot swivel point so they remain tight while the mast is lowered. If you can do that then the rest is relatively easy , just fit a winch to a pole with one end mounted in front of the base of the mast . Like this one... trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11370&start=100#p149577

Otherwise you could look at something like this


This system also works well
trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11370#p123908
and is what I'm using to lower the big mast on my cat using 6mm double braid and connect it to jib sheet using a carbine hook. I'm not using any poles so to get it started from nearly horizontal position when mast is resting on bimini frame I need to lift the mast slightly to about head height. If I use a crutch to have it sitting about 15-20% from horizontal there is no need to lift it by hand. Also to make it easier on the hands for "rope B" I use a 4:1 pulley system. Without side stays to stabilize the mast it will sway a bit when powerboats go by and can be a bit unnerving at first until you realize that it can only sway so far before the rope pulls it back to center. Because I don't need it so often I throw the rope over the cabin roof so I can lift and lower the mast from the cockpit and use the jib cleat to hold the mast half way up or when I go to fix the forestay. For something more permanent and neater you could look at routing the rope over or around the cabin using fairleads and blocks to get the line in the cockpit and use a rope clutch to hold it, maybe a backup cleat as well in case you need to leave the mast halfway up for a while and work under it. Or if you have the space in the cockpit maybe use a brake winch to do the work of the pulley system and rope clutch.

A picture says a thousand words. If your doing it on the water, just make sure your mast base has some sideways movement because the mast will flop around a bit.

sorry for not replying sooner boaties been busy on the golf course the garden and my boats a TP670 and southerly 23 and desperately seeking a duncanson 29 and the tax office is chasing late returns and my solicitor is chasing a medicare return and there is more...so. ..lets go. The main problem with all systems is the sides ways movement. So folk do the primary thing and get a system setup then find they have to introduce a secondary system to control the movement. Why not have the secondary thing be part of the primary mechanism in the first place save time trouble etc. So the clever use of ropes is the answer with the addition of any other means such as block and tackle or gin pole or mast mate but the ropes are the least expensive most efficient system.
Going to be a little tricky to explain but here goes...this is for a trailer sailer with hinged mast step so mast is laid backwards. using say trailer winch the mast can be stopped at any angle to untie shrouds ropes etc and have a smoke etc. using simple terminology....
you have the mast up and are standing on the deck front under jib haul up rope(halyard). you have the jib haul up rope in your hand. Take a o ring stainless about one inch diameter or so enough for two 8mm? ropes to fit through without binding and clip jib hauler onto this o ring...checklist...if you haul up the jib rope you are hauling up an o ring instead of a jib sail right?remember to tie a thin rope to halyard shackle so you can pull it down any time for now.VITAL!!!!
ok so pull the jib hauler back down and fit the rope. Here is where you will measure and cut the rope to be fitted only at this stage. Your start up rope will be approx 2 times the length of staunchion on deck at base of mast to where jib halyard goes into mast plus a meter and half or so. DO NOT Cut this rope yet and remember we are doing all this with the mast up at our leisure.
Double your rope up so you can find the middle of the rope and put this uncut loop through the o ring pointing the loop to front of boat. Now get a single rope with a clip on it long enough to reach from top of mast to front of boat where you attach jib sail luff at bottom.Later it will only have to reach about half way in actual fact.Clip this rope onto the loop of other rope that is sticking out of the o ring. Raise your contraption of o ring and doubled over rope and also single rope right to the top of mast entry.Now adjust. Tie loose end of first rope to staunchion a couple of inches aft of mast where possible(allows for bit of slack) Go other side and tie loose end of first rope to staunchion a couple inches aft of mast base. Before doing second tie off make sure jib halyard all the way up and the loop you made with first rope is sticking out forward about four inches out of o ring. You have done it ...foolproof works etc etc but now lets refine it. CAUTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!make sure jib halyard is tied off with no chance of coming loose...cleated plus knots please. and please note the system is so simple it is only complicated to explain.I have seen some strange stuff.
stand at front deck with the second single rope in your hand looking up. The rope in your hand is clipped to the loop in the first rope which is hanging out forward of the o ring a few inches. You have already tied off the two ends of the first rope to staunchions just aft of the mast with no slack in them. Check your geometry of the ropes. If the boat is on uneven ground and the mast wants to fall say left..the right hand rope tightens and will not allow the fall to the left. If the mast wants to lean right the left hand side tensions up and will not allow the mast to lean ...great in high winds.

You have done it !!! but...with the single rope in your hands you can get someone to undo front stay and hold rope and let mast down safely because it cannot go sideways but you will probably burn your hands and smash your boat trying to take all the weight of mast as it goes backwards past a point. A gin pole is the best way to finish off this system. Easiest to explain if you use the trailer winch here with boat on trailer..

connect the second rope to the pole (remember we have only the first and second ropes we are talking about to date)
you will see that the angle of a lowered mast will be too severe for the winch so get a bunnings square fence post made of nice painted aluminium perfect for this. Fix it temporaril;y to the base of mast or near it and stick it out forward at 45 degrees. you have already connected second rope to this somehow so it will stay put sticking out at 45 degrees, now introduce a third rope connected from the back of gin pole to the winch but do it this way....the gin pole itself can move sideways too so the rope setup to control the gin pole which in turn lowers or raises the mast itself is foolproof thus...and so so efficient. Stainless nuts and bolts not screws holding a couple of saddles on side of tube. Do the same as first rope. Find centre of a rope and put loop around the gin pole through saddles leave loop long enough to connect to winch. Tie off ends to nearest staunchions to gin pole.You will be winching the loop.Ropes once cut to size are all having clips for quick connect. Your contraption is now ready to use. The pole and mast cannot move sideways under any circumstances. you can wind the winch up and leave it if required to undo knots etc etc the gin pole and ropes will stay put no hands. CAution double double check your jib halyard cannot come loose. Knot it or tie end to something semi permanent because it will take the weight of the mast. Now you are ready to impress everyone around you and marvel at your own engineering.
jib halyard tied off securely with no chance of slack or loosening
double rope connected to winch and pole then staunchions through saddles
rope from pole to loop sticking out of o ring at top of mast
Undo forestay and winch down
Foolproof better than anything I have ever seen and so so simple and very quick to use once set up for first time can be used on the go or on trailer as long as have access to winch or mast mate or blocks etc.

ANY Questions???

tomorrow the more detailed engineering of the components and more

Select to expand quote

AUS126 said..



A picture says a thousand words. If your doing it on the water, just make sure your mast base has some sideways movement because the mast will flop around a bit.

check my post re ropes to take out sideways movement...hipopp

Select to expand quote

hipopp said..
sorry for not replying sooner boaties been busy on the golf course the garden and my boats a TP670 and southerly 23 and desperately seeking a duncanson 29 and the tax office is chasing late returns and my solicitor is chasing a medicare return and there is more...so. ..lets go. The main problem with all systems is the sides ways movement. So folk do the primary thing and get a system setup then find they have to introduce a secondary system to control the movement. Why not have the secondary thing be part of the primary mechanism in the first place save time trouble etc. So the clever use of ropes is the answer with the addition of any other means such as block and tackle or gin pole or mast mate but the ropes are the least expensive most efficient system.
Going to be a little tricky to explain but here goes...this is for a trailer sailer with hinged mast step so mast is laid backwards. using say trailer winch the mast can be stopped at any angle to untie shrouds ropes etc and have a smoke etc. using simple terminology....
you have the mast up and are standing on the deck front under jib haul up rope(halyard). you have the jib haul up rope in your hand. Take a o ring stainless about one inch diameter or so enough for two 8mm? ropes to fit through without binding and clip jib hauler onto this o ring...checklist...if you haul up the jib rope you are hauling up an o ring instead of a jib sail right?remember to tie a thin rope to halyard shackle so you can pull it down any time for now.VITAL!!!!
ok so pull the jib hauler back down and fit the rope. Here is where you will measure and cut the rope to be fitted only at this stage. Your start up rope will be approx 2 times the length of staunchion on deck at base of mast to where jib halyard goes into mast plus a meter and half or so. DO NOT Cut this rope yet and remember we are doing all this with the mast up at our leisure.
Double your rope up so you can find the middle of the rope and put this uncut loop through the o ring pointing the loop to front of boat. Now get a single rope with a clip on it long enough to reach from top of mast to front of boat where you attach jib sail luff at bottom.Later it will only have to reach about half way in actual fact.Clip this rope onto the loop of other rope that is sticking out of the o ring. Raise your contraption of o ring and doubled over rope and also single rope right to the top of mast entry.Now adjust. Tie loose end of first rope to staunchion a couple of inches aft of mast where possible(allows for bit of slack) Go other side and tie loose end of first rope to staunchion a couple inches aft of mast base. Before doing second tie off make sure jib halyard all the way up and the loop you made with first rope is sticking out forward about four inches out of o ring. You have done it ...foolproof works etc etc but now lets refine it. CAUTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!make sure jib halyard is tied off with no chance of coming loose...cleated plus knots please. and please note the system is so simple it is only complicated to explain.I have seen some strange stuff.
stand at front deck with the second single rope in your hand looking up. The rope in your hand is clipped to the loop in the first rope which is hanging out forward of the o ring a few inches. You have already tied off the two ends of the first rope to staunchions just aft of the mast with no slack in them. Check your geometry of the ropes. If the boat is on uneven ground and the mast wants to fall say left..the right hand rope tightens and will not allow the fall to the left. If the mast wants to lean right the left hand side tensions up and will not allow the mast to lean ...great in high winds.

You have done it !!! but...with the single rope in your hands you can get someone to undo front stay and hold rope and let mast down safely because it cannot go sideways but you will probably burn your hands and smash your boat trying to take all the weight of mast as it goes backwards past a point. A gin pole is the best way to finish off this system. Easiest to explain if you use the trailer winch here with boat on trailer..

connect the second rope to the pole (remember we have only the first and second ropes we are talking about to date)
you will see that the angle of a lowered mast will be too severe for the winch so get a bunnings square fence post made of nice painted aluminium perfect for this. Fix it temporaril;y to the base of mast or near it and stick it out forward at 45 degrees. you have already connected second rope to this somehow so it will stay put sticking out at 45 degrees, now introduce a third rope connected from the back of gin pole to the winch but do it this way....the gin pole itself can move sideways too so the rope setup to control the gin pole which in turn lowers or raises the mast itself is foolproof thus...and so so efficient. Stainless nuts and bolts not screws holding a couple of saddles on side of tube. Do the same as first rope. Find centre of a rope and put loop around the gin pole through saddles leave loop long enough to connect to winch. Tie off ends to nearest staunchions to gin pole.You will be winching the loop.Ropes once cut to size are all having clips for quick connect. Your contraption is now ready to use. The pole and mast cannot move sideways under any circumstances. you can wind the winch up and leave it if required to undo knots etc etc the gin pole and ropes will stay put no hands. CAution double double check your jib halyard cannot come loose. Knot it or tie end to something semi permanent because it will take the weight of the mast. Now you are ready to impress everyone around you and marvel at your own engineering.
jib halyard tied off securely with no chance of slack or loosening
double rope connected to winch and pole then staunchions through saddles
rope from pole to loop sticking out of o ring at top of mast
Undo forestay and winch down
Foolproof better than anything I have ever seen and so so simple and very quick to use once set up for first time can be used on the go or on trailer as long as have access to winch or mast mate or blocks etc.

ANY Questions???

tomorrow the more detailed engineering of the components and more

hope no one got killed using the rope system...the most important aspect to make it work is you have to tie a knot in the protruding loop of rope sticking out from the o ring. Now it cannot the rope i mean cannot lengthen or shorten and the mast cannot move sideways...regards the old sailor

Select to expand quote

Sheikjabooti said..

hipopp said..
...now to show you what works on a trailer sailer with standard jib halyard...

Any chance of posting some photos...the description so far has me totally confused!

I'm keen to figure out how to raise/lower my MB21 trailer sailer mast while on the water...particularly while traversing the power boat highway that is the Freo bridges

@Sheikjabooti How tall is your mast? You might be able to go under on a low tide... there can't be that much in it with an MB21??