Seen a few options for this but would like some further opinions/photos of successful (safe) setups. I'm moored in the Swan River so have to navigate the famed Fremantle Traffic Bridge with the mast down.

My boat is a 24 footer fractional rig with about an 8.5 meter mast,an inner forestay, two sets of side stays (one set on spreaders) and a running back stay. The mast pivots aft from the deckhouse. I've attached a photo so you can maybe see the standing rigging if you zoom in.

I have a couple of spinnaker poles as supports to form what I guess is a windlass bipod?

These photos predate a complete scrub and the removal of about 4 inches of barnacles, mussels and other assorted aquatic life that the previous owner left me!

Appreciate any advice forthcoming...

This is a good summary on the ss34 site - using two spin poles as you allude to. Assume you could set up a similar system.

www.ss34.org/index.php/the-ss34/technical/#dropping_the_mast

The yanks use "gin poles" - google that for many videos - but most of them fail to caution about controlling the mast sideways. We stepped a cut down j24 mast on a Santana 22 a long while back using nothing but 3 blokes and pushing it up from behind it and heaving on the forestay and genoa halyards........nearly lost it sideways about 2/3 the way up - not sure how we didn't.

I have a trailer sailer that needs mast winching. If I do it on my own I need to use small stays that are in line with the mast, no sweepback. These stop the thing from swinging sideways as is stated wisely above. The thing to remember about these stays is that they must be in line with the mast pivot. You will probably have some sort of arrangement to lift the chainplates off the deck and get them inline with the pivot.

Lowers are fine to use, there is not much load on the stays whilst raising. But they will be needed for boat raising the mast on the water.

cheers

Phil

Cheers. Sounds hairy. Will wait for a still day for first attempt!

These are some brackets I made for anchoring the spinakker poles to the deck for lowering masts. They just bolt to the toe rails.






This is the bracket that forms the top of the "A"- frame and attaches to the reduction block and a couple of halyards or the forestay.

A great headstay fitting incorporating the reduction block for lowering and raising the mast.

Reddog
You are really going to have to bite the bullet and walk up to someone who does this regularly (and safely) and ask to be shown and taught the routine,
Then you need to make the rig and dry test it at anchor till you have it perfect. Jolene's great photos will give you a start
Then test it under motor in a sheltered area .
Only then can you head out and lower the mast in the swell and wake of all those cruisers as your boat is rocking about crazily.
Probably lower the mast at your mooring. so you only have to deal with raising it first time out.
You will need someone aboard who is not a panniker to assist.
Do not take the wife out until you have this routine perfected.

There is real satisfaction in starting from zero and mastering something scary like this.
But disaster awaits he who is not fully prepared.

You can go to the bridge or a good vantage point near it with a pair of binocs and spy!
Gary

Cheers. Nice block setup. Definitely baby steps for this one! I'll enlist some help for sure. Definitely a step up from walking the mast up on our old Court 550 trailer sailer.
Maybe take some score cards down to the bridge and rate everyone as they go through! You used to be able to fish from underneath, I'm not sure if that's still the case.

My next boat is having lug/gaff/sprit sails....

Cheers. Nice block setup. Definitely baby steps for this one! I'll enlist some help for sure. Definitely a step up from walking the mast up on our old Court 550 trailer sailer.
Maybe take some score cards down to the bridge and rate everyone as they go through! You used to be able to fish from underneath, I'm not sure if that's still the case.

My next boat is having lug/gaff/sprit sails....

Jolene,
Looks like you'd run the line through the blocks and run it back to a winch somewhere or with that much reduction is it a just by hand?

Yeah, you could crank that one up by hand or direct the block line to a sheet winch via a snatch block,. It's on an M 27

Have you considered cutting the mast to fit under it or get a cheap Hobie mast and cut that one down ? Traffic bridge is 6.7M so you're still left with over 5M of mast above cabin which could hold a extra large roach main and large genoa. Wouldn't win you any fleet river races but on a Perth to Rotto race you'd be anchoring at Rotto before the rest of the fleet gets through the heads.
Not that you'd want to get to close to Rotto now that it has become a COVID-19 quarantine center.

Hi Reddog
I'm in SoPYC i lower and raise mine solo gets a little stress full going out as you sit out in the harbour getting it back up, Lots of thing to watch out for other boats, your rigging and the wake of those stink boats never mind the Rotto ferry.
Happy to show you my set up, Spirit 28. Its a bit heavy than your but the same principle.
Best to have 2 or 3 people on board to help, practice on your mooring. you should be able to use the inner fore stay makes it a lot easier. cheers pm me if you need help

Way to Darmah

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Harb said..
Have you considered cutting the mast to fit under it or get a cheap Hobie mast and cut that one down ? Traffic bridge is 6.7M so you're still left with over 5M of mast above cabin which could hold a extra large roach main and large genoa. Wouldn't win you any fleet river races but on a Perth to Rotto race you'd be anchoring at Rotto before the rest of the fleet gets through the heads.
Not that you'd want to get to close to Rotto now that it has become a COVID-19 quarantine center.

It'd work as a lugger but I'm not up for that radical a change! Current mast is 8.5 metres off the deck.
How about we get a petition going to put in a request for a gantry off the end of one of the jetties out front of the left bank. I'd pay $50 to gently lower the mast onto the deck and stand it back up again...

I've been working on a short mast for the past couple of weeks , mast is just 4m above cabin and have increased the boom from 2.5 to 3.3m to give me more sail area . All rigging is now complete and just finishing the jib before I can test it under my 5.2m bridge.
I'll be testing with some old sails which are a bit smaller footed but should give me an idea of what to expect. If I can get the boat up to 3-4kn with the old rags I can cut down some good sails which would give me an extra 4sqm of sail area or about the same as the old sails but lower down.

Having gone under the bridges a lot of times solo I find the most scary part is the wash from other boats !!! My process is I usually pick up a mooring just before the bridges and lower it there being able to keep a eye on wash from other boats, A few tips on getting it up is avoid a strong headwind( sometimes I have to head downwind just to take a bit of wait of the furler) i use a cordless right angle drill with a winch attachment on my manual anchor winch but I can pull it up by hand , the hard part for me is getting the pin back in if you have a furler for this I ended up getting a pin with a long point like a podgy bar and that has saved so much drama !!

such a relief when it's all back up

A sliding or gaff Gunter rig is a lot less radical change than a lug rig, aluminium mast section I think would lend its self to a sliding arrangement without to much brain strain, with today's tec you could have a push button job ! and the main sail modification wouldn't be major either.

Have you researched this company
mastmate
www.mastmate.com.au

If you go to Amsterdam you will see the classic Dutch Botter solution. Big A frame pivoting on the deck, and winch on the bow. It helps if the shrouds can pivot in line with the mast pivot point.

Lots of boats in WA with chainplate extenders to bring the pivot point of the shroud to the same plane as the mast pivot. A Lot of these extenders are simply an extra piece toggled to the shroud and are not a fixed structure.
To get them to work you need to hold them in an upright position with some sort of brace so as the mast comes down, the shrouds are forced to pivot at the top of the chain plate extender and not at the deck chainplate. These braces are known as wobble stoppers. These wobble stoppers are often the bit that can ruin your day. They call them wobble stoppers because they allow your upper shrouds to theoretically retain there tension so the mast wont wobble,,,
so as the mast is being lowered the tension of the upper shrouds is being gradually transferred from the chainplate to the wobble stopper and whatever you have them attached to. When your mast has been lowered down to the the same angle as the wobble stopper, the wobble stoppers will be caring the full load and its at this point you are most vulnerable. If one lets go you could suddenly have a heap of slack and a ton of inertia going one way.
Make sure the wobble stoppers are of an adequate strength and length ( to provide an optimal angle).

Hi Red Dog, I'm going to be lowering mine at Freshies either Thursday or Friday morning if you would like to come down and have a look. I can take you through what you need to cover.

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Jolene said..
These are some brackets I made for anchoring the spinakker poles to the deck for lowering masts. They just bolt to the toe rails.

I like this concept. I had a smaller, lighter arrangement for my Austral 20 Trailer Sailer. The "A" Frame provides lateral support. I needed it because my mast would slew off to starboard (due to a poorly aligned mast step pivot). The OP needs it for raising and lowering on the water.

Before the A frame, I tried gin-poles without success. See my story here theboattinkerer.blogspot.com/2018/06/episode-18-pole-son-of-pole-and-twin.html

Thanks for posting your link

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RubikRedDog said..

How about we get a petition going to put in a request for a gantry off the end of one of the jetties out front of the left bank. I'd pay $50 to gently lower the mast onto the deck and stand it back up again...

Before any petitions for a gantry I think we should get a petition going to have them re-measure the heights of all WA bridges to allow for the global warming and latex tape measures used previously.
The Estuary bridge in Mandurah has been reduced to 6.1m from the 6.6m on charts but at least they marked it. The new traffic bridge is marked as 5.2m HAT on charts but no markings on bridge and unless the bride began sinking since they finished building there is no way any 5.2m boat will fit under it at HAT. This morning wasn't even close to HAT and my 5.19m boat only made it less then 1/3 of the way under it before coming to a halt. Just as well I approached it motoring at 2-3 knots instead of the marked 8kn limit and had the 4 blade prop on which helped to dislodge the mast.

Looks like spending $39 on this could be useful.............trust your bride is not sinking............("unless the bride began sinking")

www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-25m-laser-distance-measurer_p5660758

Assume you have checked the top of your mast from the waterline is actually 5.19m? Hope no significant damage occurred to your yacht. In the good old days when roads and traffic authorities had dedicated bridge branches these heights were usually well sorted out and could be relied upon - hopefully this continues. Obviously expect you would be more than vigilant at the high tides as compared to low - I would allow more than 1cm leeway in your mast height though, to cover wave impacts etc. You could heel your yacht also but this could impact your outboard's operations.

I made the mast to fit under the bridge and left 1cm to spare but was really expecting they left a few cm as well to allow for wakes from passing boats,etc. The bridge is fairly new, like about 2 years old and was supposed to have 5.2m clearance at HAT which will be in 2 months time when high tide is another 22cm higher then today's high tide. I touched the bridge about 10cm before high tide so that's over 30cm clearance that I should have had. Also the 5.19 is for empty boat, with today's 300kg load it would have been more like 5.12 m
With no boats around and no wake I should have had about 40cm clearance but instead I was out by probably 20cm or so, all up the bridge height must be at least half a meter out from charts . I noticed the've recently changed the height of the bridge next to it from 6.6m to 6.1m after 35 years in operation, although is still displayed as 6.6m on charts, so maybe they are both sinking.

A laser measurer would only work right under the lowest part of the bridge so I'd have to be able to get right under the bridge first , so mast has to stay home or use a kayak. Easier to just cut another 20cm from the mast, move the spider and shorten the stays then have another go. Still, its disappointing when you can no longer rely on officially posted bridge heights.

"You could heel your yacht" - I could if was a beach cat but mine is too heavy to fly a hull. I could gain another 30cm if I flood the hulls up to cockpit floor then release the water once I got on the other side of the bridge. Just need to relocate the batteries to higher ground.

Ok I see you are totally all over it.
On this evidence I strongly suggest you approach the local council and govt authority who oversaw the bridge contract and ask them to explain. Including the adjacent bridge new 6.1m height from the original 6.6m. Global warming has not resulted in 0.5m in 35yrs.
I would go out in a kayak or canoe with a laser level and measure the height at high tide during a coming calm weekend, correlate it with the tide charts and the supposed bridge height, also the height above water level of where you have the laser installed, include photos of everything, and present a documented case.
Yes agree with your solution to cut 20cm from the mast but I would be mad as a cut snake also.
Ok you can't heel the boat, understand. Please don't flood the hulls............
Cripes that's a brilliant part of Oz down there - I did a lot of work at Alcoa Wagerup on their grinding mills in the 2000s.............stayed at the Waroona Hotel they were salt of the earth people................

Hi RubikRedDog,

I have a Spacey 22 in Freshwater Bay, so also face the bridge issue.

My solution was to make up an A-frame with some square section steel. The pointy end of the frame clamps to the turnbuckle on the forestay. The other end of the frame attaches to stanchions roughly in-line with the mast.

I also have a 12v remote controlled 4wd winch mounted in the cabin on the rear of the anchor well. I pass the winch line through the anchor well to a turning block on the stemhead fitting and up to the A frame.

To lower the mast I just need to detach both forestays, then I can stand on the cabin top with one hand on the mast to control sideways movement, and use the winch remote control to lower the mast.

To raise the mast I just press the other button :-)

I had to post this as we were talking about 5 metres and this guy tried it on with about 2.5m under Garratt Rd Bridge on the Swan River in WA.
I would have IMMEDIATELY jumped out and whited out my boat name before starting to try and recover the boat.
I wonder if Fremantle SEA rescue did attend?

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RubikRedDog said..

I would have IMMEDIATELY jumped out and whited out my boat name before starting to try and recover the boat.

Better still, rename it Goose since they have both demolished the canopy ?

With all the rego fees DOT collects from boaties in WA you'd think they could afford to have signs with bridge clearance at HAT displayed on every bridge if not the actual clearance displayed using markers on the pylons or at least some self adhesive measuring tape stuck on them.

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Harb said..

RubikRedDog said..

I would have IMMEDIATELY jumped out and whited out my boat name before starting to try and recover the boat.

Better still, rename it Goose since they have both demolished the canopy ?

With all the rego fees DOT collects from boaties in WA you'd think they could afford to have signs with bridge clearance at HAT displayed on every bridge if not the actual clearance displayed using markers on the pylons or at least some self adhesive measuring tape stuck on them.

Best one I ever saw was a sign in 'murica warning people of a low bridge ahead, on it it stated "If you hit this sign you are going to hit that bridge." Admittedly it was on a road so the tide was always the same. No it wasn't the 11'8" bridge, it was another one.

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LooseChange said..

Harb said..

RubikRedDog said..

I would have IMMEDIATELY jumped out and whited out my boat name before starting to try and recover the boat.

Better still, rename it Goose since they have both demolished the canopy ?

With all the rego fees DOT collects from boaties in WA you'd think they could afford to have signs with bridge clearance at HAT displayed on every bridge if not the actual clearance displayed using markers on the pylons or at least some self adhesive measuring tape stuck on them.

Best one I ever saw was a sign in 'murica warning people of a low bridge ahead, on it it stated "If you hit this sign you are going to hit that bridge." Admittedly it was on a road so the tide was always the same. No it wasn't the 11'8" bridge, it was another one.

Too funny to not watch again!!