Has anyone looked at the costs involved?

My wife and I lived aboard for 2 years and if you include maintenance for the yacht (42ft Adams), the costs were $45k - $50k pa. So take off anti fouling and breakdowns and general maintenance off that.
Ate good food and stayed in a marina for about 2 nights per month on average.
Can't wait to do it again.....

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Bundeenabuoy said..
Has anyone looked at the costs involved?

depends how you go about it.

#1. Free mooring, moving boat every 7 or so days (depending where you are), not much cost. Only what you spend on food and necessities, plus what you spend on the boat if you choose to up keep it. One can get by on $100 food/week so that is $5200 a year alone. So inclusive basic boat maintenance and misc. costs, probably $7-8000/ year

#2. Live aboard in a marina. Depends where you are, but an average cost is probably $700/ month for vessels under 12 metres. Electric and water all inclusive. So, that is $8400/ year. You will need insurance, $500-$1200 depending. Add basic food costs $5200 - and maintenance, around $15000 minimum.

These are minimal costs that one person could live aboard on. I have met people who did the year with option 1 under $7000. All depends who you are, and what are your basic needs.

#3. at a mooring , which is #1 with an added cost of a few hundred dollars a year. Most places there is a waiting list of months or years and you might just forget about this one.

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NowandZen said..
My wife and I lived aboard for 2 years and if you include maintenance for the yacht (42ft Adams), the costs were $45k - $50k pa. So take off anti fouling and breakdowns and general maintenance off that.
Ate good food and stayed in a marina for about 2 nights per month on average.
Can't wait to do it again.....

Gees 45 to 50k now n zen what where you living on caviar and imported French snails ? You could buy another yacht for that price!
i spend $3k on a single berth marina,
$1.4k on full comprehensive insurance.
$1k on Couple of jerrys of fuel and gas.
$3k on fine steaks and veg.
$1 k for slipping and maintance.
over 1k for beer and ejuice.
anually.

It should be only about 10 to 12 k living in a marina!
and half that on the pick.

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southace said..

NowandZen said..
My wife and I lived aboard for 2 years and if you include maintenance for the yacht (42ft Adams), the costs were $45k - $50k pa. So take off anti fouling and breakdowns and general maintenance off that.
Ate good food and stayed in a marina for about 2 nights per month on average.
Can't wait to do it again.....

Gees 45 to 50k now n zen what where you living on caviar and imported French snails ? You could buy another yacht for that price!
i spend $3k on a single berth marina,
$1.4k on full comprehensive insurance.
$1k on Couple of jerrys of fuel and gas.
$3k on fine steaks and veg.
$1 k for slipping and maintance.
over 1k for beer and ejuice.
anually.

It should be only about 10 to 12 k living in a marina!
and half that on the pick.

suppose everything is relative depends how much money you have to spend.

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southace said..

NowandZen said..
My wife and I lived aboard for 2 years and if you include maintenance for the yacht (42ft Adams), the costs were $45k - $50k pa. So take off anti fouling and breakdowns and general maintenance off that.
Ate good food and stayed in a marina for about 2 nights per month on average.
Can't wait to do it again.....

Gees 45 to 50k now n zen what where you living on caviar and imported French snails ? You could buy another yacht for that price!
i spend $3k on a single berth marina,
$1.4k on full comprehensive insurance.
$1k on Couple of jerrys of fuel and gas.
$3k on fine steaks and veg.
$1 k for slipping and maintance.
over 1k for beer and ejuice.
anually.

It should be only about 10 to 12 k living in a marina!
and half that on the pick.

Well aren't you clever.

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NowandZen said..

southace said..

NowandZen said..
My wife and I lived aboard for 2 years and if you include maintenance for the yacht (42ft Adams), the costs were $45k - $50k pa. So take off anti fouling and breakdowns and general maintenance off that.
Ate good food and stayed in a marina for about 2 nights per month on average.
Can't wait to do it again.....

Gees 45 to 50k now n zen what where you living on caviar and imported French snails ? You could buy another yacht for that price!
i spend $3k on a single berth marina,
$1.4k on full comprehensive insurance.
$1k on Couple of jerrys of fuel and gas.
$3k on fine steaks and veg.
$1 k for slipping and maintance.
over 1k for beer and ejuice.
anually.

It should be only about 10 to 12 k living in a marina!
and half that on the pick.

Well aren't you clever.

Not trying to be clever mate that's just a rough costing after living and cruising for nearly 10 years. I was just a bit shocked that your expense living onboard was in the 50k bracket annually. I don't include pricing for breakdowns and airfares ....etc 50k per annual would be all my wages and I would only just come out even each year. I'm guessing that's partly the reason you sold the new boat and went back to living in bricks and mortar?

My gf and I spent 18 months sailing around NZ. Boat was 39ft. Our expenses were around $100 per week unless we stayed in a marina. Jetted off the boat once by letting the tide run out under it and it sat on it keel. Free. Fishing was so good you could catch every evening meal. The $100 a week would have been less but we bought beer and wine periodically.

This just show the difficulty of answering this type of question - different respondants include/exclude different things. At one end would be all living expenses whilst happening to live on a boat, at the other end, just the daily, boat related, costs which often exclude longer term maintenance.

The big cost that is often missing is depreciation. Most Australian houses at least keep up with inflation whereas boats usually depreciate.

Where you want to live, as others have said, makes a huge difference, not just which part of Australia but marina/mooring/anchor or cruising around.

I'd always take very low figures with a pinch of salt, I suspect that the, "my boat only costs $200 a year" brigade are presenting figures to pull the wool over their partner's eyes.

My suggestion is to break down the costs into sensible headings and research / estimate each one for your boat & location. It's also easier to get an accurate cost on "slipping a 40 ft yacht & antifouling in Pittwater than a generic "what's the whole thing likely to cost?"

Budgeting is really handy as boat related costs can vary wildly from month to month. I've probably spent $6000 this November on a mix of annual, medium-term, long-term and one off maintenance, improvements & marina space while we do it. However, I spent hardly anything Jan to April, zero May to October and expect more or less zero in December (we live on our boat).

The use of the boat also makes a difference - are you maintaining it for tough blue water cruising, pottering around, racing or just sitting on a mooring?

Just out of interest, the ASFA standard suggests an income of $40k for a modest income for a retired couple and 60k for a comfortable income, so the 45/50k mentioned above isn't out of order for total expenditure.

Cheers

Bristol

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Bristolfashion said..
This just show the difficulty of answering this type of question - different respondants include/exclude different things. At one end would be all living expenses whilst happening to live on a boat, at the other end, just the daily, boat related, costs which often exclude longer term maintenance.

The big cost that is often missing is depreciation. Most Australian houses at least keep up with inflation whereas boats usually depreciate.

Where you want to live, as others have said, makes a huge difference, not just which part of Australia but marina/mooring/anchor or cruising around.

I'd always take very low figures with a pinch of salt, I suspect that the, "my boat only costs $200 a year" brigade are presenting figures to pull the wool over their partner's eyes.

My suggestion is to break down the costs into sensible headings and research / estimate each one for your boat & location. It's also easier to get an accurate cost on "slipping a 40 ft yacht & antifouling in Pittwater than a generic "what's the whole thing likely to cost?"

Budgeting is really handy as boat related costs can vary wildly from month to month. I've probably spent $6000 this November on a mix of annual, medium-term, long-term and one off maintenance, improvements & marina space while we do it. However, I spent hardly anything Jan to April, zero May to October and expect more or less zero in December (we live on our boat).

The use of the boat also makes a difference - are you maintaining it for tough blue water cruising, pottering around, racing or just sitting on a mooring?

Just out of interest, the ASFA standard suggests an income of $40k for a modest income for a retired couple and 60k for a comfortable income, so the 45/50k mentioned above isn't out of order for total expenditure.

Cheers

Bristol

actually, you can live on little as $5/day per person if need to be. So, if you moor free and you own your boat and can give no care abou maintenance, you can live cheaply.

But, everything is relative. A millionaire on a million dollar yacht can spend thousands, for what he/she considers bare minimum, versus someone, who has to go by on very little dollars.

2 of us living aboard in a marina we spend between $18 -20K a year with most of our needs met, eating out certain nights, drinks, etc + yearly boat maintenance of $1-$2K included. To some this is a lot, to some this is not

I think t depends on your lifestyle and how you manage it. I sold my car built the boat and cruised tassie and the East coast of oz for a number of years .
worked in rhe Whitsundays, Thursday island and cape York to top up the kitty. Worse thing I did in Townsville is I brought a car. Shopping with a backpack and a tender and your yacht/home is on the pick is the cheapest life. I still can' see how you spend more than 10k a year just living aboard.

It is relative.
You want to live on sardines and 2 minutes noodles. A splurge is on a blade steak?
I personally prefer scotch fillet and want to be able to go out to dinner.
I would love to know where in Sydney you can get slipping done for $1000 especially on a 40ft boat. Last month it cost me $1700 FOR slipping and antifoul plus another $200 for prop speed.
$1000+ for insurance this is on a 33ft boat.
What happens when you have a big expense new motor or sails?
What happens if you need to fly home to family? Medical expenses?
Yeah you can survive on $1000 pm but but I personally prefer a bit of quality especially after working so hard to get there.

A couple of the posts here remind me of the famous Monty Python sketch.

.be

The sketch is 40 years old, but says it better than I ever could.

Twodogs got into the territory where nobody else ventured sofar, namely engines, where a yearly service could cost thousands by the "experts".
Sails - if one is reckless enough to sail the yacht regularly, God forbid daring to race it, not just using it, like the wast majority of yacht owners this days, as a houseboat.

Also there is the largest money pit which everyone is bound to fall into, rigging costs, as one is obliged to replace a most likely perfect rigging every ten years to satisfy the whims of the insurance mafia.
Here goes the '$5/day ' theory which is in today's Australia nothing but a fanciful dream, sadly the days of Alby Mangel are no more!
(There are few of the smart, resilient young ones who try to beat the odds and they might be able with the help of the net manage it for a while but this is only a drop in the ocean. The trend is to force yachties to spend!
The rest is going to be led to the milking pail like good cattle should be.

There are hidden costs which are not as obvious as a major expense might be - the "l just get this new gadget, it's 'only a few bucks' kind of spending", which could become a serious amount on a yearly basis. It did for me, so why would others be different?

The food and drink, for one must eat and drink no matter what, imo is not to be counted as 'extra' unless one's fond of permanent Lucullian fares.

The fact that modern society is based on spending not saving does not make us any more free and independent it makes us more and more dependent on the need to buy our "feeling of freedom" which is ready to be purchased "for just the right price" using a readily available loan.

Replacing costs such as engines and sails is a overall cost to all boat owners.
A liveaboard cost is seperate pricing. If your asking what's the price to livaboard I don't include the price of my vessel replacements parts or renovations.
Living aboard costs should be .
Food and supplies
Rent ,fuel and gas.
Insurance.
annual maintance and slipping.

The actual live aboard costs - strictly speaking - are the swingeing insurance premiums, exorbitant Marina fees and the key deposit for the dunny.

All other costs are to be spent regardless of the location of the tub mooring or marina, no matter which.

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sirgallivant said..
The actual live aboard costs - strictly speaking - are the swingeing insurance premiums, exorbitant Marina fees and the key deposit for the dunny.

All other costs are to be spent regardless of the location of the tub mooring or marina, no matter which.

Although, strictly speaking , the key deposit isn't a cost as it is refundable. Just the nominal interest on the deposit - so, if the deposit is $50, at 2.5%, the annual cost would be $1.25!!!

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southace said..
Replacing costs such as engines and sails is a overall cost to all boat owners.
A liveaboard cost is seperate pricing. If your asking what's the price to livaboard I don't include the price of my vessel replacements parts or renovations.
Living aboard costs should be .
Food and supplies
Rent ,fuel and gas.
Insurance.
annual maintance and slipping.

and mooring costs ? eg permits / mooring repairs / marina berth ?

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SandS said..

southace said..
Replacing costs such as engines and sails is a overall cost to all boat owners.
A liveaboard cost is seperate pricing. If your asking what's the price to livaboard I don't include the price of my vessel replacements parts or renovations.
Living aboard costs should be .
Food and supplies
Rent ,fuel and gas.
Insurance.
annual maintance and slipping.

and mooring costs ? eg permits / mooring repairs / marina berth ?

Yes rent Sands marina berth rental. It fluctuates around the country . Cheaper than renting a house or unit with free electricity and water . I only berth in a marina when I have full time work other than that it's free on anchor!

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southace said..

SandS said..

southace said..
Replacing costs such as engines and sails is a overall cost to all boat owners.
A liveaboard cost is seperate pricing. If your asking what's the price to livaboard I don't include the price of my vessel replacements parts or renovations.
Living aboard costs should be .
Food and supplies
Rent ,fuel and gas.
Insurance.
annual maintance and slipping.

and mooring costs ? eg permits / mooring repairs / marina berth ?

Yes rent Sands marina berth rental. It fluctuates around the country . Cheaper than renting a house or unit with free electricity and water . I only berth in a marina when I have full time work other than that it's free on anchor!

you could make some good money while on anchor , with air b&b guests .... 200 per night plus 30 for breakfast !

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SandS said..

southace said..

SandS said..

southace said..
Replacing costs such as engines and sails is a overall cost to all boat owners.
A liveaboard cost is seperate pricing. If your asking what's the price to livaboard I don't include the price of my vessel replacements parts or renovations.
Living aboard costs should be .
Food and supplies
Rent ,fuel and gas.
Insurance.
annual maintance and slipping.

and mooring costs ? eg permits / mooring repairs / marina berth ?

Yes rent Sands marina berth rental. It fluctuates around the country . Cheaper than renting a house or unit with free electricity and water . I only berth in a marina when I have full time work other than that it's free on anchor!

you could make some good money while on anchor , with air b&b guests .... 200 per night plus 30 for breakfast !

I disagree with air B&B after following some posts on international Facebook forums.

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southace said..

SandS said..

southace said..

SandS said..

southace said..
Replacing costs such as engines and sails is a overall cost to all boat owners.
A liveaboard cost is seperate pricing. If your asking what's the price to livaboard I don't include the price of my vessel replacements parts or renovations.
Living aboard costs should be .
Food and supplies
Rent ,fuel and gas.
Insurance.
annual maintance and slipping.

and mooring costs ? eg permits / mooring repairs / marina berth ?

Yes rent Sands marina berth rental. It fluctuates around the country . Cheaper than renting a house or unit with free electricity and water . I only berth in a marina when I have full time work other than that it's free on anchor!

you could make some good money while on anchor , with air b&b guests .... 200 per night plus 30 for breakfast !

I disagree with air B&B after following some posts on international Facebook forums.

yeah, what happened ?

Random people where coming into a secure marina and staying on a B&B yacht after 150 comments the post got shut down!

Australia is one of the more expensive places to own and sail a boat. There are too many good reasons to spend money. I left Gladstone in June, spent $300 on provisioning. I didn't see a marina or a supermarket during the next 4 months and only used 120l of diesel and 80l of petrol. Nothing broke during this season either.

Looking back, it actually saved me money when I brought a newer and more simply designed boat. On my last boat "old" boat I'd go out sailing for 3 days and then have to spend a week fixing things.

So if you want to sail and sail cheaply, go somewhere where there is no possibility to spend money.

I have nearly finished spending money on the boat so when I do go cruising next year I don't have that expense. It will be purely living on board. You don't claim pot plants, landscaping and hot water replacements to total costs of household living. And Same goes with living aboard I think.

My seat Southace!
Claming: "I have nearly finished spending money on the boat (whaaat??? ) so when I do go cruising next year I don't have that expense. It will be purely living on board. "

I would like to hold you to your word and invite you to start an HONEST list from the start of your cruise to list the things you "don't have to spend on" !

The boat, on which one does not have to spend on has not been built yet, and that includes pot plants, landscaping and hot water replacements, methinks.

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sirgallivant said..
My seat Southace!
Claming: "I have nearly finished spending money on the boat (whaaat??? ) so when I do go cruising next year I don't have that expense. It will be purely living on board. "

I would like to hold you to your word and invite you to start an HONEST list from the start of your cruise to list the things you "don't have to spend on" !

The boat, on which one does not have to spend on has not been built yet, and that includes pot plants, landscaping and hot water replacements, methinks.

My last yacht which I totally rebuilt from keel to mast tip everything new apart from the engine and auto pilot, I cruised for 6 years as a liveboard. Autopilot failed in bass strait so replaced with new, lost anchor in Mooloolaba (whitworths swivel failed) and my suncover tore on the headsail (cyclone Yasi) .
These costs are not factored into my liveboard costs. Separate account.

My new yacht I have now replaced everything I can think of with new gear, hence why I stated I have finished spending money. Although some new things these days seem to fail anyway.
Also I'm a fair weather sailer and try not to put myself,crew or vessels in situations where they could break.

it's an interesting thread, but the definitions are tricky. We keep detailed records but, at the high level, they are split into "Boat" and "Everything else"

It all depends what you want or need to do, where you are going to do it and the standard of comfort you require.

If you own a boat already and live in a house, moving onto the boat is a big saving.

I'm intrigued by the concept of "nothing to spend" on a boat. Even oil, filters, coolant, belts & impellers at the correct intervals is something. At this stage, my "to buy for the boat list" is down to split pins & an o ring for the transducer blank.

The other thing to consider is approach to size. Our boat is very small, cheap to buy & maintain, no expectation of significant depreciation but no shower or fridge. In exchange, we don't worry about the odd night in a marina. A larger boat could provide all the comforts, but at higher capital, depreciation & maintenance costs (although it is interesting how many bigger boats are in marinas)

Cheers

Bristol

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Bristolfashion said..
it's an interesting thread, but the definitions are tricky. We keep detailed records but, at the high level, they are split into "Boat" and "Everything else"

It all depends what you want or need to do, where you are going to do it and the standard of comfort you require.

If you own a boat already and live in a house, moving onto the boat is a big saving.

I'm intrigued by the concept of "nothing to spend" on a boat. Even oil, filters, coolant, belts & impellers at the correct intervals is something. At this stage, my "to buy for the boat list" is down to split pins & an o ring for the transducer blank.

The other thing to consider is approach to size. Our boat is very small, cheap to buy & maintain, no expectation of significant depreciation but no shower or fridge. In exchange, we don't worry about the odd night in a marina. A larger boat could provide all the comforts, but at higher capital, depreciation & maintenance costs (although it is interesting how many bigger boats are in marinas)

Cheers

Bristol

I agree with what your saying Bristol. But "Nothing to spend" I'm talking about replacing stuff after buying a so called "BARGIN boat" I have spent close to $30 k in 3 years but I don't count that into my liveaboard costs.
Same as when the government calculates the cost of living they don't include broken hot water services , airconditioning replacements etc. into the costings.
anual maintance should be included into the cost of living on a boat.