Dear Friends, a friend just bought 30f sailing boatvin excellent condition. It us moored in Lake Macquarie. Is it possible to leave Port Macquarie 6am on a high tigh and a good wind on our back and get to Woolwich around 7pm?
The plan is to use yanmar 20hp and both sails... we should achieve around 7 knots hopefully and at that constant speed we will ba back by 8pm.

Is there anything that we should be aware of it? A part of pirots ofcourse

Thank you guys

Are you talking about Lake Macquarie (as per your post subject text) or Port Macquarie (which is included in your content text). Big difference in distance.

Mathematically, but probably not practically.

Let's call the distance 60 nautical miles as a nice round number. Let's also say that you can achieve your hull speed of 7kts for the entire trip (highly unlikely). 60 ? 7 = 8.6 That'd get you in by the afternoon.

However, what's more likely to happen is that a bunch of things you can't even think of now will go wrong, especially if it's a boat that's brand new to you. It also assumes that the weather is perfect in terms of the wind and wave directions - for example, you might be beating into the wind against a swell, which would slow you down massively.

Personally, I'd plan instead on making it to Pittwater, then reassessing whether you were still good to keep going to Sydney. A good saying to keep in mind is that plans are written in sand at low tide - be prepared to change them based on conditions at the time.

"plans are written in sand at low tide"

Awesome saying
Im going to pinch it from you

As above I'd have a Plan B to layover in Refuge Bay if falling behind time.

What is your draft?? Tides are not real high in the coming days & you may need a "big high" to get out. Very shallow near the end of the airstrip!!

Also, when planning, remember to plan you bridge opening 2 to 4 hours AFTER high tide - I always leave a bit of incoming tide to get me off the bottom if needed!!

Thanks guys, planing to go this Saturday. It is a Lake Macquarie not Port Macquarie apologies.what time that bloody Ridge opens? We aew planning to take a train and than Taxi. Should we ask a previous owner to pass that bridge for us on Friday some can just continue towards Sydney?
Thank you guys for your advice, I will keep in touch

Thanks guys, planing to go this Saturday earlymorning. It is a Lake Macquarie not Port Macquarie apologies. What time that bloody bridge opens? We are planning to take a train and than Taxi. Should we ask a previous owner to pass that bridge for us on Friday, so we can just continue towards Sydney on early Saturday morning?

We are both excited and our enthusiasm will take us home, but all technical thinks like bridges and so on can slow us down. You guys are local and you know the best what and how to do! We appreciate your help.
Thank you guys again for your help, I will keep in touch

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Serb1980 said..
Thanks guys, planing to go this Saturday earlymorning. It is a Lake Macquarie not Port Macquarie apologies. What time that bloody bridge opens? We are planning to take a train and than Taxi. Should we ask a previous owner to pass that bridge for us on Friday, so we can just continue towards Sydney on early Saturday morning?

We are both excited and our enthusiasm will take us home, but all technical thinks like bridges and so on can slow us down. You guys are local and you know the best what and how to do! We appreciate your help.
Thank you guys again for your help, I will keep in touch

I would aim for a 7am bridge opening with a high tide of 1.3m at 0455 - not a big tide but doable if you don't draw too much.

Book the bridge opening at least 1hr before, with Marine Rescue Lake Macquarie, & I would tell them it's your first time out the channel & ask if they can give you an escort - easy to follow someone who knows the shallow spots!!

The other option is to get the previous owner, or someone, to take it out & use a pink buoy on the outside of the bridge overnight. This would give you more water at high tide at 1546 with a 6 pm bridge opening.

Good luck!!

When I took my 31ft sail boat boat into and out of Lake Macquarie earlier in the year I phoned Marine Rescue at Swansea and received excellent advice about using the channel and crossing the bar. There are issues both sides of the bridge. Have pen and paper ready to make notes.

Have you checked the weather???
Saturdays Sydney forecast looks to be rather uncomfortable for offshore sailing.
It has been said here before - plan with the weather, not to a timetable.

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Serb1980 said..
Dear Friends, a friend just bought 30f sailing boatvin excellent condition. It us moored in Lake Macquarie. Is it possible to leave Port Macquarie 6am on a high tigh and a good wind on our back and get to Woolwich around 7pm?
The plan is to use yanmar 20hp and both sails... we should achieve around 7 knots hopefully and at that constant speed we will ba back by 8pm.

Is there anything that we should be aware of it? A part of pirots ofcourse

Thank you guys

Plan on 4 knots and not in the next few days! I would love a picture of this 30 footer that's going to cruise at 7 knots!

Here is a link to a boat getting an escort, through the bad bit in the channel, from MRLM this afternoon.
fb.watch/9bbZzy0K4F/

I would be making sure you can put a reef (or maybe 2) in before you head out!!

20kts beam reach with 1.5 swell so doable but I would be keeping an eye on the weather as you near departure time!!

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Serb1980 said..
Is there anything that we should be aware of it? A part of pirots ofcourse

Thank you guys

The weather.
Not a good idea this weekend unfortuneatly, but you could have a nice shakedown weekend on the Lake, then re-assess the weather for next weekend.

Mmm...currently it's showing a fairly decent southerly swell until at least the middle of the day, but even given you're on a lovely beam reach, you probably won't make 7 knots into the swell. Then, if you do reach Sydney heads before dark, you'll need to head directly into a westerly to get inside, then have a head wind all the way to Woolwich once you round Bradley's head. If it was me, I'd be looking at the following weekend, suspected Northerlies, coupled with a Northerly swell. Although it is a week away, so anything can happen.
Sail from a date, not to one....

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MichaelR said..
[SNIP]
If it was me, I'd be looking at the following weekend, suspected Northerlies, coupled with a Northerly swell. Although it is a week away, so anything can happen.
Sail from a date, not to one....

Hi Michael - What do you use to look at forecasts that far ahead? i.e. weekend after this one.

I am looking to bring a Cavalier 28 down from Pittwater to Five Dock Bay and will be watching the weather over the next few weeks, but none of the tools I am using go that far out. Of course understand the probability of being correct drops significantly the further out the forecast is viewed, but after reading your point about the Northerlies and Northerly swell the weekend after next I was intrigued.

Are you looking at synoptic charts and doing your own forecast?

Any tips?

Windy.com is pretty good - use with MetEye to get a good picture

Next Sat 10am - Wind = N @ 14kt


Swell NE @ 1.2m


This Sat 11am - Wind = W @ 23Kt


Swell = W @ 1.6m

Thanks Lazzz. Have been using Windy and it wasn't until I looked closely at your screenshot that I realised as you scroll to the right into the future, there is an option to expand past the default six days!

But instead of having eight sample times per day it only shows four per day. Good enough though. Thank you.

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Enigma1 said..
Thanks Lazzz. Have been using Windy and it wasn't until I looked closely at your screenshot that I realised as you scroll to the right into the future, there is an option to expand past the default six days!

But instead of having eight sample times per day it only shows four per day. Good enough though. Thank you.

Experience over nearly 5 decades in flying and sailing and very recent times sailing, a forecast more than 24 hours out is suspect. More than 48 hours it will be wrong, you just don't know by how much or in which direction.
We planned to head north from Sydney Monday last week. The Friday before windy had 20-25 kts on the nose. On Sunday 15-20 kts. On the day windy had 10-15 kts and it was 10-15.
9 years ago I planned to go from Pittwater to Broughton Islands. The forecast the day before departure was 20 - 25 on the nose. We got away later the next day and by 1800 it was 30-35. We headed back to Pittwater. It peaked that night over 50 kts as a tropical depression deepened and moved south.
I know some people believe we know what the climate will do in 50 years but you can take it as gospel we don't know what the weather will be in 48 hours. Some forecasters are better, windy.tv is my pick, but it just isn't possible to be accurate further out. Just think of the variables in 48 hours of weather versus 50 years of climate.

I don't have that many years of studying the wind but totally agree with MB, windy is close a few days out but not exact.
Just study days ahead in your local area. Do what Lazzz did and take screen shots, then go back and check every day and you will see the difference between forecast and reality.

Personality I blame the wind farms for speeding up the earths rotation

Personality I blame the wind farms for speeding up the earths rotation

Don't the wind turbines take energy out of the system and SLOW down the earth's rotation?
I am sure I saw that on the internet somewhere. Or maybe it is both

Here is the same wind forecast 1/2 day later - shows how it can change overnight, let alone over a week!!!
Next Sat 10am Wind - NE 6 kts

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garymalmgren said..
Personality I blame the wind farms for speeding up the earths rotation

Don't the wind turbines take energy out of the system and SLOW down the earth's rotation?
I am sure I saw that on the internet somewhere. Or maybe it is both

.........you have to factor in all the solar panels soaking up the sun's energy otherwise you are just not going to get anywhere near an accurate picture of whats going on.

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MorningBird said..

Enigma1 said..
Thanks Lazzz. Have been using Windy and it wasn't until I looked closely at your screenshot that I realised as you scroll to the right into the future, there is an option to expand past the default six days!

But instead of having eight sample times per day it only shows four per day. Good enough though. Thank you.

Experience over nearly 5 decades in flying and sailing and very recent times sailing, a forecast more than 24 hours out is suspect. More than 48 hours it will be wrong, you just don't know by how much or in which direction.
[SNIP]

Yes MB understand completely the vagaries of forecasting. Was just looking for something useful to keep an eye on to watch things firm up.

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Enigma1 said..

MichaelR said..
[SNIP]
If it was me, I'd be looking at the following weekend, suspected Northerlies, coupled with a Northerly swell. Although it is a week away, so anything can happen.
Sail from a date, not to one....

Hi Michael - What do you use to look at forecasts that far ahead? i.e. weekend after this one.

I am looking to bring a Cavalier 28 down from Pittwater to Five Dock Bay and will be watching the weather over the next few weeks, but none of the tools I am using go that far out. Of course understand the probability of being correct drops significantly the further out the forecast is viewed, but after reading your point about the Northerlies and Northerly swell the weekend after next I was intrigued.

Are you looking at synoptic charts and doing your own forecast?

Any tips?

Just like everyone else, Windy and Seabreeze. As I said originally, it was a week out so anything can, and possibly will happen. I didn't see too many boats going south off the Northern Beaches yesterday or Saturday, but a decent racing fleet going north on Saturday seemed to be making good headway with the strong westerlies.

That was the Bird Island Race - the race record was beaten funnily enough..............

www.livesaildie.com/ichi-ban-disko-trooper-and-urm-take-wins-in-thrilling-bird-island-race-sprint/

If heading offshore I always check BOM first. If the weather is iffy I always check Buoyweather.com for the actual area I will be operating. This is only a two-day forecast but since my days as a fisherman, this has always been the most reliable. I look at Seabreeze as well and find the timing is good but the breeze is always underestimated for my zone.

Ah buoyweather.com I had forgotten about that site.

I am mostly using windy.com but have had a look at predictwind.com too.

Guys we left Lake Macquarie around 10 am. Came back to Woolwich around 9 pm on Sunday. We had a time of our life. After Terrigal nothing than misery. Rain and wind....at one point we stopped engaged the engine and from Manly to Woolwich slowly on engine... it was a hell to put sails down under the heavy rain... we flu 7 knots on average (max 9 knots from the ground). At one point I thought that boat will break, seriously! Marsm 950 done it well.
Overall crazy experience, the wind was on our side and we didn't need to take much but did change the Genoa from big to small one....
Just to let porople know that even 8 know is the hull speed, we fly 9knots.... I don't know how but I saw it with my eyes. Many time 8.5 knots... I am not giving any false infos of exaggerating. Guys if you can please go outside the heads and do it, it is a lot of fun. Don't be scared at all... have fun...
Almost forgot, on the way to morrisette by train I was crying 25l of diesel and a train personel asked me if that is the petrol? I told him it is an olive oil...

We couldn't stop laughing at 5 am..... like is funny and Guys keep it like this...

Love you
Our Serb

Well done right there to you both. The reason that you went over the theoretical hull speed is that the Masrm950 is not a displacement hull type but a semi-displacement type which can achieve speeds over the hull speed given enough wind and suitable sail trim.

improvesailing.com/guides/semi-displacement-hulls-explained

East Coast current probably gave a good boost too. Lets see what speed you have going North!

If I understand it correctly, the hull speed is not a limit, but a speed at which the energy needed to drive the yacht forward increases greatly The best explanation I can think of is that hull speed is related to the length of the wave from bow to stern. The length of the wave increases with speed, and speed with length. The hull speed is where the length of the wave is equal to the length of the boat (which is why longer boats go faster). At hull speed, the boat is sitting nicely in the trough (scend) of the wave. If you increase speed above hull speed, you are trying to push the boat up the uphill slope of the wave-rise at the front, and gravity is trying to push you back into the trough, so the energy or force needed increases at a much higher rate than at, or below hull speed. It can be done, but the forces increase disproportionately, compared to speed.

Planing boats, literally, get over this by pushing themselves onto the peak of the wave-rise at the front. Note how far behind the boat the stern-wake is - the boat is not sitting in the hollow between the bow-wave and stern-wave. While planing, the wetted area of the hull is greatly reduced, which reduces friction and drag, which improves efficiency.

Foils are another case altogether, and work by momentum; the change of direction of the flow under the foil pushes the boat up, and reduces wetted area, friction and drag significantly.