I know big cats are probably safe in these conditions but it still looks frightening. I still have that feeling that they could nose dive or tip over.

I would rather be on a Pogo 42 in those sort of conditions and I reckon it would be going faster too.

Sorry, dont know how to put the pic up as a link but the link below (copy and paste) is worth the effort. 8m yacht in NZ heading home at 18-19 knots from White Island race which is 350nm offshore ... looks an awesome ride

NZ racers are not like us, note no harnesses or lifejackets and standing on the stern,

Us coming home last year. Averaged 7.5kts through the water for 15 hours. Wind about 15 to maybe 25kts, it was backing around to be more on the nose at this point.

Just found this on youtube.

Nice post cisco, how good does the wake on that Pogo 42 look! Those guys would have been flying…literally and emotionally.

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nswsailor said..
NZ racers are not like us, note no harnesses or lifejackets and standing on the stern,

Yep, and fewer of them die.

How many offshore racer's lives would realistically have been saved in the past few years if they had worn lifejackets? Perhaps a single one in NSW races, as far as I can work out.

I worked out some rough stats for a thread a while back, looking at the chances of death sitting at home or in the office compared to the chances of death over a similar time period while doing a Cat 1 or 2 offshore race. It seems that sailing offshore is no more deadly than going to work.

Obviously there are dangers, but to what extent more safety gear can really reduce them and how great the dangers are seem to be open questions. We'd probably be much safer overall if we took the time we spend earning the cash to buy safety gear, and use it to increase our overall health and fitness.

white island is in the Bay of Plenty maybe 35 miles out not 350.

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MorningBird said..
Just found this on youtube.
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If my boat turned upside down like that, I reckon the engine would come adrift from the hull, smash the cabin to pieces, break my hip and hole the boat sinking it.

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MorningBird said..
Just found this on youtube.

Those guys were lucky not to be crushed between the vessels!!!!

I haven't had the experience of sailing in a storm proper (as in 48+ knots), but properly rigged and handled, big cats are actually quite fun in gale conditions.

There's no way you'll pitchpole unless you're idiotic enough to be flying too much sail, and even then you're much more likely to break rigging first.

Here's a video of Arriba on a broad reach in a more subdued 25 knots.

I recall a question on here a few years ago about stability and someone produced a link. It was very in-depth and very interesting. Anyway I remember one comment saying that a catamaran is at its most stable upsidedown, while a monohull was at its most stable on the bottom of the ocean.

Horses for courses at the end of the day. The sailing world is full of old code traditionalist and buck changing trends. I'm a multi hull fan, but I hate the multis in the Americas cup series. Go figure

I agree and disagree.. ....... I like the cats they use in the Americas Cup, they are amazing feats of engineering and would be amazing to sail.

But I don't think they should be in the Americas Cup....the Cup had been sailed in what the best mono hulls of their period for a 100+ years and it should have stayed a match race with mono hulls.

At next year Americas Cup they hope to have eight J class boats racing. What's the bet they get more interest than the cats! If they all manage to make it to the event it will be the greatest sailing spectacle on the planet.

I am with you LC. This is the type of racing the Americas Cup should be all about.

Have a Kleenex handy when you watch this vid.

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cisco said..

Have a Kleenex handy when you watch this vid.

No Kleenex here, just a grin from ear to ear watching them power around a course. Have you ever seen more perfectly set sails than those, On any of the boats?
I hear Endeavour is still for sale, if you hurry Cisco you can take your spot on the starting line. Going price is €10.5 million.

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cisco said..

I am with you LC. This is the type of racing the Americas Cup should be all about.

Have a Kleenex handy when you watch this vid.

The J class always make me think they have been spawned from the sea, it's like they grew from the wind and the waves.
Kneel all, the gods walk amongst us....
Respect.

There certainly a inspiration that's for sure . And watching them on the tube over the years you get to enjoy some very nice sailing
lovely deigns

Now you guys are talking my sort of language!!

Awesome vid Cisco....Thnx!

In the WA Maritime museum, there is a winch set up from the 12m class that has resistance simulated from various wind strengths. One particular setting is based on the conditions the day Australia II won the cup. It is a bloody hard slog.... I would hate to know what went into the J Class yachts on trying conditions.

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nods said..

I agree and disagree.. ....... I like the cats they use in the Americas Cup, they are amazing feats of engineering and would be amazing to sail.

But I don't think they should be in the Americas Cup....the Cup had been sailed in what the best mono hulls of their period for a 100+ years and it should have stayed a match race with mono hulls.

Yep, a lot of the support for the change to multis in the AC has come from people who seem to have obtained their America's Cup history from rubbishy press releases and over-hyped news reports. They say things such as "the America's Cup has always been about the biggest, fastest and most extreme boats" which is simply untrue. The AC boats have rarely been the fastest class racing, and they have never been the biggest racing boats. Even John C Stevens, the main man of the syndicate that owned the original America, had a boat that was too big and fast to be allowed to enter the America's Cup itself.

Unfortunately the pop history has been used as a way to distort the truth about the AC. In reality it has normally been quite closely linked to the mainstream racing. It has normally used basically the same rules (ie the vast cutters like Reliance used the same rating rule as the 25 foot Half Raters, the 12 Metres were big versions of 8,6, Scandanavian 5 and even 2.4 Metres) and the boats have almost always been MORE conservative than smaller craft, rather than being the radical machines that the hypesters claim.

So the move to cats has divorced the AC from its true heritage and its true strengths. The pity of it is that those making the decisions didn't actually have the guts to do research on the history and on whether the modern format would really work. The big drop in the fleet size shows that their calls were wrong, yet they won't admit it.
Even more unfortunately, the same concept, which claims that extreme performance will create more interest, is running deep through the sport at the moment and the whole sport is suffering because of it.

I agree Chris.
And to further alienate the mass public, and yachties, live web streaming of the current AC is available only as a paid service.
It has lost its heritage and become a private toy of a US billionaire who treats it as a marketing commercial venture to make money.
Its enough to make you cry.
SB