Having been quoted $14K without installation costs for a new version of my 2 banger diesel Yanmar (15 HP), the time will come when eventually something will rust to a point that it will make the old trusty to bite the dust. But, with parts becoming rarer than the unicorn sighting and new engines costing almost as much as the value of the boat and the "you never know what you get" nature of the second hand market (been there, done that, got burnt). I know there are a bit cheaper options (such as Vetus), however the rpice tag is still around $10K mark, without installation costs.

So browsing for some replacement landmower motor, I have come across a few industrial diesel engines, with fresh water cooling cirquits that looked decent, 25 HP for $2500 (www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-Engine-25-HP-with-radiator-and-hose-Industrial-Motor-Replacement/143027323355?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) and I was wondering if anyone have tried one of these in their boats for other purpose and could comment on the reliability. I think adopting one of these engines for an older bouat with little value could be a great option, even if you would need to get some geabox matching done and fitting, it would still work out to be considerably less than a new engine from a brand name. And, if it is made out of decent materials, I do not see, why these units could not last some time.

There is another one in a V2 configuration
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-25hp-Diesel-portable-type-2-cylinder-PROVEN-MODEL-High-Torque/302752345455?epid=1164579184&hash=item467d722d6f:g:30IAAOSwi19a4ocK:rk:5:pf:0

I would look at small road diesels that can be picked up from wrecking yards. Few months ago I looked at a steel Van de Stadt in Sydney that had a 3 cylinder diesel out of a front wheel drive car complete with gearbox. New I would check out Alibaba for something Chinese or Indian. Golf diesels are popular in boats.

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Ramona said..
I would look at small road diesels that can be picked up from wrecking yards. Few months ago I looked at a steel Van de Stadt in Sydney that had a 3 cylinder diesel out of a front wheel drive car complete with gearbox. New I would check out Alibaba for something Chinese or Indian. Golf diesels are popular in boats.

That would be a second hand unit as well and I would probably not want a 5 speed gearbox with it's extra heft and complexity in my boat. Also, most likely you would need the ECU to control the engine, that is a whole different ball game.

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Seebreasy73 said..
Having been quoted $14K without installation costs for a new version of my 2 banger diesel Yanmar (15 HP), the time will come when eventually something will rust to a point that it will make the old trusty to bite the dust. But, with parts becoming rarer than the unicorn sighting and new engines costing almost as much as the value of the boat and the "you never know what you get" nature of the second hand market (been there, done that, got burnt). I know there are a bit cheaper options (such as Vetus), however the rpice tag is still around $10K mark, without installation costs.

So browsing for some replacement landmower motor, I have come across a few industrial diesel engines, with fresh water cooling cirquits that looked decent, 25 HP for $2500 (www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-Engine-25-HP-with-radiator-and-hose-Industrial-Motor-Replacement/143027323355?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) and I was wondering if anyone have tried one of these in their boats for other purpose and could comment on the reliability. I think adopting one of these engines for an older bouat with little value could be a great option, even if you would need to get some geabox matching done and fitting, it would still work out to be considerably less than a new engine from a brand name. And, if it is made out of decent materials, I do not see, why these units could not last some time.

There is another one in a V2 configuration
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-25hp-Diesel-portable-type-2-cylinder-PROVEN-MODEL-High-Torque/302752345455?epid=1164579184&hash=item467d722d6f:g:30IAAOSwi19a4ocK:rk:5:pf:0

Yeah great, air cooled so no pesky water pump, heat exchanger etc, really up the value of a boat.

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UncleBob said..

Seebreasy73 said..
Having been quoted $14K without installation costs for a new version of my 2 banger diesel Yanmar (15 HP), the time will come when eventually something will rust to a point that it will make the old trusty to bite the dust. But, with parts becoming rarer than the unicorn sighting and new engines costing almost as much as the value of the boat and the "you never know what you get" nature of the second hand market (been there, done that, got burnt). I know there are a bit cheaper options (such as Vetus), however the rpice tag is still around $10K mark, without installation costs.

So browsing for some replacement landmower motor, I have come across a few industrial diesel engines, with fresh water cooling cirquits that looked decent, 25 HP for $2500 (www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-Engine-25-HP-with-radiator-and-hose-Industrial-Motor-Replacement/143027323355?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) and I was wondering if anyone have tried one of these in their boats for other purpose and could comment on the reliability. I think adopting one of these engines for an older bouat with little value could be a great option, even if you would need to get some geabox matching done and fitting, it would still work out to be considerably less than a new engine from a brand name. And, if it is made out of decent materials, I do not see, why these units could not last some time.

There is another one in a V2 configuration
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-25hp-Diesel-portable-type-2-cylinder-PROVEN-MODEL-High-Torque/302752345455?epid=1164579184&hash=item467d722d6f:g:30IAAOSwi19a4ocK:rk:5:pf:0

Yeah great, air cooled so no pesky water pump, heat exchanger etc, really up the value of a boat.

one was water cooled (freshwater closed cirquit) the other is air cooled, they have a water cooled v version as well. You could put a barand new yanmar in a top hat currently valued for $25K, still wouldn't sell for more than that, so it is not about adding value, but extending life without loosing too much in the process.

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Seebreasy73 said..

UncleBob said..

Seebreasy73 said..
Having been quoted $14K without installation costs for a new version of my 2 banger diesel Yanmar (15 HP), the time will come when eventually something will rust to a point that it will make the old trusty to bite the dust. But, with parts becoming rarer than the unicorn sighting and new engines costing almost as much as the value of the boat and the "you never know what you get" nature of the second hand market (been there, done that, got burnt). I know there are a bit cheaper options (such as Vetus), however the rpice tag is still around $10K mark, without installation costs.

So browsing for some replacement landmower motor, I have come across a few industrial diesel engines, with fresh water cooling cirquits that looked decent, 25 HP for $2500 (www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-Engine-25-HP-with-radiator-and-hose-Industrial-Motor-Replacement/143027323355?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) and I was wondering if anyone have tried one of these in their boats for other purpose and could comment on the reliability. I think adopting one of these engines for an older bouat with little value could be a great option, even if you would need to get some geabox matching done and fitting, it would still work out to be considerably less than a new engine from a brand name. And, if it is made out of decent materials, I do not see, why these units could not last some time.

There is another one in a V2 configuration
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-25hp-Diesel-portable-type-2-cylinder-PROVEN-MODEL-High-Torque/302752345455?epid=1164579184&hash=item467d722d6f:g:30IAAOSwi19a4ocK:rk:5:pf:0

Yeah great, air cooled so no pesky water pump, heat exchanger etc, really up the value of a boat.

one was water cooled (freshwater closed cirquit) the other is air cooled, they have a water cooled v version as well. You could put a barand new yanmar in a top hat currently valued for $25K, still wouldn't sell for more than that, so it is not about adding value, but extending life without loosing too much in the process.

The one that I highlighted is air cooled with no water required, the other has a coolant circuit with a radiator that requires a large volume of air, so both are in their advertised form not really a suitable as a direct replacement for your yanmar. Effectively both are air cooled. If one was to add a heat exchanger and sea water pump and associated plumbing to the watercooled one it would most probably do, but at what cost?
If it were me I would either rebuild or replace with a known secondhand motor appropriate to the boat.

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Seebreasy73 said..


That would be a second hand unit as well and I would probably not want a 5 speed gearbox with it's extra heft and complexity in my boat. Also, most likely you would need the ECU to control the engine, that is a whole different ball game.

No ECU required in diesels and the gearbox in that yacht made for an awkward installation. It was compact though. Personally I would buy a Bukh and rebuild to new. Import the parts from Britain. Or buy an old Volvo like the Mb7b and rebuild. I would stick with a marine engine if possible.

I like your style in trying to adopt a far cheaper alternative solution, but using 25hp in a little boat might lead to some difficulties in prop selection, and in keeping the engine adequately loaded. Is it possible to get something closer to the 15hp?

I also share your reserve re buying a s/h direct replacement, but you could spend a bit on having it fully checked out: a compression check and oil test will tell you a lot about the innards. Installation would cost next to nothing, and you would have spares from your old engine, and a heap of unspent money left to cover any later hassles. Don't underestimate the cost (if not diy) or the incredible hassle (if diy) of redoing the engine beds.

Cheers, Graeme

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wongaga said..
I like your style in trying to adopt a far cheaper alternative solution, but using 25hp in a little boat might lead to some difficulties in prop selection, and in keeping the engine adequately loaded. Is it possible to get something closer to the 15hp?

I also share your reserve re buying a s/h direct replacement, but you could spend a bit on having it fully checked out: a compression check and oil test will tell you a lot about the innards. Installation would cost next to nothing, and you would have spares from your old engine, and a heap of unspent money left to cover any later hassles. Don't underestimate the cost (if not diy) or the incredible hassle (if diy) of redoing the engine beds.

Cheers, Graeme

when I was looking at that listing it states that the engine develops 15 HP at 2300-2500 rpm range, which I guess is the optimal rev range for this engine. I do not think the prop size matters, since the engine rev is rated at max 3000 rpms (at which the 25 HP is gained) roughly the same performance from the Yanmar. I think the prop size would matter if the rpm range would be considerably different. As I was told, the torque gets you going and the hp keeps you going. Yes, probably the 25 hp is a bit overkill for a 29-30 foot boat, but hey, I would have at least the confidence to fight any current. But this would also mean that I would be able to use an alternator at higher rating too.

I am handy and do not mind a challenge, I recon as long as I get my measurements right, I could fabricate the mounting brackets fairly easily. There is enough room around the engine to be creative if needed be. The most problem I would probably have is matching the tranny to the engine (was thinking of reusing the old yanmar's and leave everything else alone). This would still be an issue if I decided to install a dedicated marine diesel.

still would be good to get more info about the quality of these engines ( I know, $2500 what do you expect). If they lasted only half of what most yanmars are capable (10000 + hours) I recon, it still would be a better option than a gamble on a second hand option at a similar price.

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Ramona said..

Seebreasy73 said..


That would be a second hand unit as well and I would probably not want a 5 speed gearbox with it's extra heft and complexity in my boat. Also, most likely you would need the ECU to control the engine, that is a whole different ball game.

No ECU required in diesels and the gearbox in that yacht made for an awkward installation. It was compact though. Personally I would buy a Bukh and rebuild to new. Import the parts from Britain. Or buy an old Volvo like the Mb7b and rebuild. I would stick with a marine engine if possible.

you might be right sticking with a marine engine, but you can also marinize an engine too...I am pretty certain that most modern diesel car engines have electronic diesel injectors, which are controlled by the ECU in order to meet the emission standards. You may be able to find an lder diesel with common rail or similar old fashion way injectors, but again, you would be buying a used engine that has most likely run it's course.

I believe one of the best choices would be a Kubota. There are thousands of them around in lighting plants and welders.

Bell housings on many engines and gearboxes are usually made to an SAE size and spec. Do your research and you should be able to find a 20 to 27 HP engine that your gearbox off your 2QM 15 Yanmar will bolt straight onto.

Most small diesels are rated max HP at 3000 RPM like your Yanmar so you should be able to use your existing propellor.

Marinising it should not be overly problematic.

Off the subject but speaking of Top Hats here is a tidy one fore sale on Yachthub yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/top-hat-25-mk3-b-cruiser-model/226365

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Off the subject but speaking of Top Hats here is a tidy one fore sale on Yachthub yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/top-hat-25-mk3-b-cruiser-model/226365

Regards Don

???

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Seebreasy73 said..

Donk107 said..
Off the subject but speaking of Top Hats here is a tidy one fore sale on Yachthub yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/top-hat-25-mk3-b-cruiser-model/226365

Regards Don

???

Well I did say it was off topic

You said you were looking at replacing the engine in your Top Hat and I googled the boat so I could see what they were like and saw this one for sale that I thought looked pretty good for the price just incase anyone was looking at buying one

Regards Don

Might be of interest that John Deere uses a Yanmar that looks similar to the marine versions. I have a friend that bought a JD mower with a working 3GM Yanmar for less than 2K.

A

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Seebreasy73 said..
Having been quoted $14K without installation costs for a new version of my 2 banger diesel Yanmar (15 HP), the time will come when eventually something will rust to a point that it will make the old trusty to bite the dust. But, with parts becoming rarer than the unicorn sighting and new engines costing almost as much as the value of the boat and the "you never know what you get" nature of the second hand market (been there, done that, got burnt). I know there are a bit cheaper options (such as Vetus), however the rpice tag is still around $10K mark, without installation costs.

So browsing for some replacement landmower motor, I have come across a few industrial diesel engines, with fresh water cooling cirquits that looked decent, 25 HP for $2500 (www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-Engine-25-HP-with-radiator-and-hose-Industrial-Motor-Replacement/143027323355?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) and I was wondering if anyone have tried one of these in their boats for other purpose and could comment on the reliability. I think adopting one of these engines for an older bouat with little value could be a great option, even if you would need to get some geabox matching done and fitting, it would still work out to be considerably less than a new engine from a brand name. And, if it is made out of decent materials, I do not see, why these units could not last some time.

There is another one in a V2 configuration
www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-25hp-Diesel-portable-type-2-cylinder-PROVEN-MODEL-High-Torque/302752345455?epid=1164579184&hash=item467d722d6f:g:30IAAOSwi19a4ocK:rk:5:pf:0

Could it be possible that one of the Yanmar industrial motors shares the same block as yours? If so, that might open up some options for compatibility with your current components. Assuming that the non marinised version is cheaper of course.

https://www.yanmarindustrial.eu/Products/Diesel-Engines/2TNV70-7/

14k seems expensive I was quoted closer to 11 for a new 30 Yanmar last year. Also check the prices overseas as you can get them several thousand cheaper if you're willing to take the risk.

You can buy engines out of de-commed life boats advertised eb gt etc but they need to be landed here for the price they are asking.
$8 or $9k??

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cisco said..
You can buy engines out of de-commed life boats advertised eb gt etc but they need to be landed here for the price they are asking.
$8 or $9k??

if you have ever dealt with our customs I would say may not be worth it.

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Off subject slightly but this might interest.


"John Mardall here from Vetus Maxwell
VM series engines are one Mitsubishi blocks
VH series engines are on Hyundai blocks

VF engines are on Fiat blocks
VD series engine are on Deutz blocks.


Gearboxes are TMC or ZF


Marinization parts including heat exchangers, mixing elbows, impeller pumps, engine mounts, belts, pulleys, alternators, belt covers, etc. are by Vetus"

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Ramona said..

Off subject slightly but this might interest.


"John Mardall here from Vetus Maxwell
VM series engines are one Mitsubishi blocks
VH series engines are on Hyundai blocks

VF engines are on Fiat blocks
VD series engine are on Deutz blocks.


Gearboxes are TMC or ZF


Marinization parts including heat exchangers, mixing elbows, impeller pumps, engine mounts, belts, pulleys, alternators, belt covers, etc. are by Vetus"

you can have the best base engines, but if the marinization is not properly done or if not of the same quality, that will be the definig factor.
Lets hope Vetus uses quality parts.

I think it's called a discussion, as in exchange of ideas

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Ramona said..
I would look at small road diesels that can be picked up from wrecking yards. Few months ago I looked at a steel Van de Stadt in Sydney that had a 3 cylinder diesel out of a front wheel drive car complete with gearbox. New I would check out Alibaba for something Chinese or Indian. Golf diesels are popular in boats.

Golf diesels are the base engines for the mercruisers diesels.
Put hundreds of thousands of kms on one of those.
in the pole boat was looking a engine replacement and wa s going with the mercruiser

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lydia said..

Ramona said..
I would look at small road diesels that can be picked up from wrecking yards. Few months ago I looked at a steel Van de Stadt in Sydney that had a 3 cylinder diesel out of a front wheel drive car complete with gearbox. New I would check out Alibaba for something Chinese or Indian. Golf diesels are popular in boats.

Golf diesels are the base engines for the mercruisers diesels.
Put hundreds of thousands of kms on one of those.
in the pole boat was looking a engine replacement and wa s going with the mercruiser

thank you but I am talking about smaller diesels. Not certain if a mercrusier engine would even fit in my boat. Surely, I would surprise a few with a sleeper engine! Have you seen that yacht skippin the waves at 25 knots?

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wongaga said..
I think it's called a discussion, as in exchange of ideas

yes, I thought we were doing that?

a 25HP water cooled for $1750
www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-Diesel-TOOL-POWER-25-hp-Water-Cooled-with-Radiator-Taper-Shaft/302797861034

The Perkins 4108 I basically an industrial motor and while bigger than what you want with the installation in my boat it's easy to see how this could be applied to a smaller motor. Die on in Brisbane are a great option for the raw water cooling heat exchanger . The 4108 is rated 50 hp on the bench at 4000 rpm but in the typical marine installation are around 30 hp at the prop at 2500 rpm and cruising at around 1700-2000 rpm. Gearbox is 2:1 Borg Warner. I've been thinkingA newer engine that would do this type of Install would be an Isuzu. My son has one in his plenty army land rover and it would be great, again a bit big for what u are after

Have you looked on Gumtree? There is a 2QM20 in Victoria for $1600. A lot of leeway for freight costs.

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jacktheflyer said..
Have you looked on Gumtree? There is a 2QM20 in Victoria for $1600. A lot of leeway for freight costs.

thanks, that engine is even older than mine and I would not take a chance on it for that much money

Have you checked the price of a Vetus M2-18A ? (2cylinder 16hp) Vetus are based in Brisbane.
I bought a 42hp 4 cylinder version of the same a few years ago for 11K including gearbox. I've been happy with the quality and the service from them. The base engine is made by Mitsubishi and is commonly used on industrial equipment such as forklifts and small tractors so parts are easily found for a good price.

Btw - a higher hp engine won't help much running against the current, as you are still limited by hull speed through the water. It may help some when pushing against the wind, though.