Regards Don

F...ing idiots.
Should not be allowed to own a boat, or anything mechanical for that matter.
They risked their crews safety to prove which of the skippers had the bigger men's vegetable.

Close match racing running close to dead square in marginal conditions. Coulda gone a lot worse. RRS over COLREGS remember. Bugger all the same.

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All@Sea said..
Close match racing running close to dead square in marginal conditions. Coulda gone a lot worse. RRS over COLREGS remember. Bugger all the same.

Yeah, as soon as the Audi boat gybe'd, he should have called starboard, problem solved.

This sort of crap is why I don't race

Really? A single short video is enough to condemn all racing and the participants involved? The boats were reefed, kites up for sure but then they got a big gust and the boats were on edge. I am sure that any of the forum members could have a 30 second incident where they do something stupid or stuff up somehow. If it was videoed and posted on another site there could be equally inaccurate comments on why you shouldn't ever go out on a cruising boat.

I like cycling, sailboarding, bodysurfing and many more activities that can end up with bad things happening. And the size of my manliness does not enter into it. Sailboat racing can be an absolute blast in heavy air, close racing, a hairsbreadth away from calamity and your senses at full alert. Also the sailing skills you learn and require to sail like this makes you a far better sailor (in terms of skill level) than the cruiser who has never raced. So crossing bars, surfing a wave, getting onto the foredeck to clear a tangle, getting a kite up and down, (basically anything to do with foredeck work) knowing when to tack in a heavy sea, bringing a boat alongside someone in the water, judging when it is safe to cross another boat and much more are all all skills that are highly developed through racing. Learn the skills by racing and then throttle back when cruising to be a far safer cruiser.

I can't afford to break boats like this so I race much cheaper dinghies but that is more a function of my wallet than anything else.

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MorningBird said..
F...ing idiots.
Should not be allowed to own a boat, or anything mechanical for that matter.
They risked their crews safety to prove which of the skippers had the bigger men's vegetable.

Oh come on mate - you risk your life cruising. One may just as well say that offshore cruising (rather than taking a plane) is a hairy-chested macho demonstration of virility. If safety was paramount you'd just sail around Pittwater in daylight and take a commercial flight to Lord Howe. You choose to take that risk (and good on you) just as others take the risks involved in cycling, surfing, bushwalking or racing under sail. Why criticise some risks but not others?

These guys are at pro level and got a freak gust, resulting in a collision despite their best efforts. They accepted a very low risk in order to follow their passion, just as you do and just as cyclists, bushwalkers and surfers do. What do you expect them to do - round the top mark and say "oh gee, there could be a gust - let's just throw away all the money we have spent getting here, all the money from our sponsors and all the fruits of all our training and leave the kite in the bag, because we could broach"?

To indicate how low the objective risks are, I can only think of one sailor who was killed in a gybe broach - Tom Curnow on Obsession in the 1978 SORC. There have been other tragic injuries, but the fact that the 1978 incident sticks out indicates that serious injuries in such incident are actually very rare. Those who accept such low risks should not be abused. Quite a number of people have died cruising since then - why are they apparently exempt from the same sort of criticism that these inshore racers face?

Having spent many years racing, I must say I have never come across many people who are particularly obsessed with their wedding tackle. Many of the people who bring that sort of thing up appear to be trying to prove that they are better than racers, which ironically is arguably the same sort of status-seeking dominant behaviour that racers are accused of.

By the way, one of the skippers involved in an incident has a degree in marine engineering. The other is a maritime lawyer. It's not as if they are ignorant of the mechanics of sailing or the issues of collisions on the water.

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Chris249 said..
Oh come on mate - you risk your life cruising. One may just as well say that offshore cruising (rather than taking a plane) is a hairy-chested macho demonstration of virility. If safety was paramount you'd just sail around Pittwater in daylight and take a commercial flight to Lord Howe. You choose to take that risk (and good on you) just as others take the risks involved in cycling, surfing, bushwalking or racing under sail. Why criticise some risks but not others?

These guys are at pro level and got a freak gust, resulting in a collision despite their best efforts. They accepted a very low risk in order to follow their passion, just as you do and just as cyclists, bushwalkers and surfers do. What do you expect them to do - round the top mark and say "oh gee, there could be a gust - let's just throw away all the money we have spent getting here, all the money from our sponsors and all the fruits of all our training and leave the kite in the bag, because we could broach"?

To indicate how low the objective risks are, I can only think of one sailor who was killed in a gybe broach - Tom Curnow on Obsession in the 1978 SORC. There have been other tragic injuries, but the fact that the 1978 incident sticks out indicates that serious injuries in such incident are actually very rare. Those who accept such low risks should not be abused. Quite a number of people have died cruising since then - why are they apparently exempt from the same sort of criticism that these inshore racers face?

Having spent many years racing, I must say I have never come across many people who are particularly obsessed with their wedding tackle. Many of the people who bring that sort of thing up appear to be trying to prove that they are better than racers, which ironically is arguably the same sort of status-seeking dominant behaviour that racers are accused of.

By the way, one of the skippers involved in an incident has a degree in marine engineering. The other is a maritime lawyer. It's not as if they are ignorant of the mechanics of sailing or the issues of collisions on the water.

When it happens to them it is usually out of sight of any spectators and video evidence, in other words if no one saw it happen, then it never happened.

It isn't this one incident which I grant is just one.
When I sail offshore I assess the risks and reduce them to as low as possible and try to make decisions enroute the same.
My dislike of racing sailors was built over a decade of racing out of CYCA, RANSA and then on Pittwater at Avalon Sailing Club and in a few offshore Coffs races.
The number of idiot skippers who do stupid things to prove their manhood is overwhelmingly more than in general society.
These guys in the video, and many of the racing skippers I have experienced, do the opposite on risk taking. No risk is too great to prove my piece is bigger than yours.

"who dares wins"

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt.

Does any one know what pub has this on the wall?

Couple of points;
Those skippers don't own the boats.
Sailing at that level is a team sport, at the top mark all the crew would have made the call to go a kite because their training would have indicated to them that the conditions were within the limits of using a kite.
Its racing because you take calculated risks to gain an advantage. It didn't work out in this instance but crews on those boats would have accepted that as part of racing.
This is my 43rd season racing, I accept that there is a personal risk and a risk to the equipment. I race because it's good for me and not to impress anyone else.

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Jolene said..
"who dares wins"

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt.

Quote attributed wrongly to Custer
"All the world to gain and only life to lose'

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MorningBird said..
F...ing idiots.
Should not be allowed to own a boat, or anything mechanical for that matter.
They risked their crews safety to prove which of the skippers had the bigger men's vegetable.

That's a bit harsh. It's racing.
Imagine how boring footy would be if no one got tackled just in case someone got hurt. Or if they slowed down to walking pace around corners in the Grand Prix just to be on the safe side.
That's the nature of elite competition in any sport, people pushing their bodies and their equipment to the limit.

that collapsible mast is an awesome safety feature!

I am no racing man, but it looks to me that one boat was overtaking. Should that overtaking boat not have kept clear by a larger distance?

The boat that jibed was trying to put the jib up , maybe to stop being overtaken ? and or to help shield the kike for the take down ? the overtaking boat rounded up to miss the collision !! that was hectic !! very lucky there wasn't a collision !!

wait, there are other forums?

funny how the mast broke so low down, at the spinnaker pole, yet it did not seem to be loaded very much at that point.
I would have expected to see it collapse more around the spreaders, as is more common.

Wasn't there a recent thread asking how strong your pole needed to be?

Should have used line from Bunnings for spin halliards and sheets, would have saved the mast. :)

Thanks for posting Donk that was the best thing I've seen for ages.

Takes me back to days on Sydney Harbour with the skipper (also the owner) on the tiller yelling "the others are are all pussies- stick up the kite - the worst we can do is sink it"!!

Geez we tried hard and had a few good swims but the boat stayed afloat and we survived with some priceless memories.

I haven't raced since but my therapist says I coming along well so you never know

Match racing is a bit nuts. It is far more about using the rules to eke out a penalty, so if you're not swapping paint you're probably not doing it right.
Fleet racing in my experience is nothing like match racing, if you tried the tactics used in match racing you'd let the whole fleet past you as you luff each other up to over the horizon.

Edit: We probably looked like that on Sat night, thankfully without the broach, can't say the same for the poor leeward boat we were passing.
.

shaggybaxter [totally off topic. ]
I recently read a comment + pictures from you, dating back a couple of years now, re. a Mottle 33 fitting a Dyneema removable inner for-stay. Probably Solent type
I am in the middle of a refit to a mottle 33 hopefully to be used offshore.
1 did you do this work yourself?
2 or are you able to put me in touch with some one in the Brisbane area or SE Qld who can give me expert advice and service for soft stays to suit this boat?
thank you in advance
Brett
Ph 0414320246

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brettscudoo said..
shaggybaxter [totally off topic. ]
I recently read a comment + pictures from you, dating back a couple of years now, re. a Mottle 33 fitting a Dyneema removable inner for-stay. Probably Solent type
I am in the middle of a refit to a mottle 33 hopefully to be used offshore.
1 did you do this work yourself?
2 or are you able to put me in touch with some one in the Brisbane area or SE Qld who can give me expert advice and service for soft stays to suit this boat?
thank you in advance
Brett
Ph 0414320246

Will work fine but make sure you have very oversize hanks on the sail otherwise they bind on the thicker diameter forestay.