I need some sage advice all. As my profile states I am looking to get a boat to potter around in ,mainly solo between say Sunshine Coast and GC.
I have always been impressed with the Holland designs of the 70/80's but know nothing about their manners under sail. Also I have assumed masthead rig would be best for solo but after much reading perhaps fractional with swept back spreaders. I only ever crewed on a quarter tonner with fractional rig a few times .
Is a holland with fractional rig a sensible option?

Does this boat have a diesel and does it have running backstays. The only fractional Holland 25 I have seen had inline spreaders and runners. My previous boat was dimensionally the same as the Holland 25 but with an outboard and not full headroom, also a quarter tonner. Basic requirement when I upgraded was a diesel and headroom. The holland may require ballast on the rail for best performance so this might be a problem solo.

For just a little more money I would buy this. http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-30/159923

Say no more . I cannot see myself sitting on rail with tiller in hand . Perhaps a little beamy . It is diesel with swept back spreaders though.
I have a defiance as an option. Used to crew on one but am thinking a bit to much for one ,perhaps not ,I'll check one out.

Hi,
I don't know what price range you are looking at, but If you want a boat that sails well at all angles to the wind, easy to sail short handed, well built, roomy inside, modern open cockpit which makes it easy to to get into a tender or Marina and just nice to sail Look at a Young 88. The Young 88 was ahead of its time. There are a number of people on this forum that think S&S designs are the best think since sliced bread as with EH Holden car owners think they are the best car ever built. They are generally good boats but they are yesterday designs and there are a lot of newer boats that are a lot nicer to sail and easer to sail. As the say "yesterdays 30 footer is today's 50 footer" modern boats are a lot easer to sail, You will pick up a good Young 88 for $40k to $50k.
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/OAG-AD-627162/1987-YOUNG-88?cr=2&psq=%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26Make%3DYOUNG%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Premium

I have sailed against and on a few holland 25s, they were very popular down here in the 80s, they sail very well and are roomy for a boat of that size and era, that can be a bit "corky" in a sea and the domed foredeck can take a bit to get use to.

I've seen that Young 88 many times (in the same Marina) fast looking boat. Sailed by a older guy and his daughter (I assume)

if you can find one for sale the Robertson 950 maybe worth looking at. They made a racing and cruising versions.
I have the cruising one which has a wheel instead of a tiller and a few more creature comforts. Huge cockpit for a 9.5m boat and open transom. They were made in Caloundra by Bob Robertson who recently purchased and is now racing the first 950 he built.

Makes a lot of sense Jode5 . I had never thought about more modern designs .I'd figured on cashing in 1000 ANZ ($32) but not set in concrete. I'm not sure how I would go with an open transom. I remember when the Farr 1104 came out and wondered how many winch handles etc. were lost in season.
A trip to the marina might be in order

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Ramona said..
Does this boat have a diesel and does it have running backstays. The only fractional Holland 25 I have seen had inline spreaders and runners. My previous boat was dimensionally the same as the Holland 25 but with an outboard and not full headroom, also a quarter tonner. Basic requirement when I upgraded was a diesel and headroom. The holland may require ballast on the rail for best performance so this might be a problem solo.

For just a little more money I would buy this. http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-30/159923

bargain alert !!!!!! S&S defiance .......... new motor ! re rigged ! new sails ! fridge what more could you want ? under 20 k bargain of the century !!!

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seabird said..
I've seen that Young 88 many times (in the same Marina) fast looking boat. Sailed by a older guy and his daughter (I assume)

if you can find one for sale the Robertson 950 maybe worth looking at. They made a racing and cruising versions.
I have the cruising one which has a wheel instead of a tiller and a few more creature comforts. Huge cockpit for a 9.5m boat and open transom. They were made in Caloundra by Bob Robertson who recently purchased and is now racing the first 950 he built.

$80 odd grand is a bit more than I wanted to pay for something to potter around in but you never know. I should explain I am an above average fit 70 years youngwith twelve handicap in golf.
15 months ago I had surgery for prostate C and three months ago I got the all clear and the doc gave me a five year warrantee ,his language, and told me to go and do the things I most wanted to .For me back on the water sailing .I've had a pretty full life. Thats not to say I 've got only five years just they don't know.
I want to make sure I get the right boat that I can handle for a few years so nothing too out there.

Hi. Banana bender
if you want to come out for a sail on a new really well set up 57 footer that has be set up to be sailed single handed, you are quite welcome. It would also let you see a quite a number of smaller boats which you are looking at being mainly sailed short handed by blokes over 60 years old (Especially on Wednesday, retirees) We social race out of Redcliffe most Wednesdays and Saturdays, just let me know if you want to come. A teak toe rail will keep things from going over the back of open transoms, my wife would not have a boat that was not easy to board over the transom. Anyone wanting to have a look at the boat, it will be on display at the Sanctuary Cove Boat in May. Below is a video we took when we sailed the boat home from Sydney before Christmas.
John

That boat ends the argument as to whether to spend $500,000 buying a mono hull or a catamaran.

Doing 9 knots in those sort of conditions make me think she could be cranked up close enough to 20 knots on a broad reach in the right conditions.

Would that be right Jode??

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Bananabender said..

seabird said..
I've seen that Young 88 many times (in the same Marina) fast looking boat. Sailed by a older guy and his daughter (I assume)

if you can find one for sale the Robertson 950 maybe worth looking at. They made a racing and cruising versions.
I have the cruising one which has a wheel instead of a tiller and a few more creature comforts. Huge cockpit for a 9.5m boat and open transom. They were made in Caloundra by Bob Robertson who recently purchased and is now racing the first 950 he built.

$80 odd grand is a bit more than I wanted to pay for something to potter around in but you never know. I should explain I am an above average fit 70 years youngwith twelve handicap in golf.
15 months ago I had surgery for prostate C and three months ago I got the all clear and the doc gave me a five year warrantee ,his language, and told me to go and do the things I most wanted to .For me back on the water sailing .I've had a pretty full life. Thats not to say I 've got only five years just they don't know.
I want to make sure I get the right boat that I can handle for a few years so nothing too out there.

At 70 [I'm 66] I would try the Young 88 solo in 15 to 18 knots and see if you can move about that cockpit, drop in a reef etc. Then buy the Defiance. The Defiance may be longer but it is actually a smaller boat and with the main set on the bridge deck you would have better leverage. Main is smaller as well and with a nice cut No2 on a headsail furler would be a an easy boat to handle. There is a nice old Currawong up there for sale too. The main on these is set on the cabin top but the main is reasonable small and the leverage is not too bad for an old bloke. They are easy to sail solo if they have a tiller, cockpit has a high coaming and all controls are at hand. There is not a great expanse of cockpit to fly across and hurt yourself in when conditions get fresh.
For the sailing you envisage it's not all about lounging expanse of interior but ease of handling, motion in a seaway and just a nice boat to sail.

If I had not found my Lotus 9.2, which I think would be a perfect yacht for you Bananabender, my next choices were a Peterson Santana 30, S&S Defiance 30, Spencer 30, Carter 30, Currawong 30 and Holland 30 or even a Clansman 30 but only if I had to.

Apart from the Clansman these are all very similar design and vintage and I think all are IOR half tonners. While noting what Jode5 says about more modern designs, these have stood the test of time and ex racing yachts generally make for good fast cruising yachts.

Budget with purchase and budget with ongoing maintenance is always important as is size manageability for us older gentlemen. These 30 footers all fit the bill fairly well while providing generous accommodation for 1, 2 or 3 people and a good measure of offshore capability.

Your recent brush with Charlie puts a certain edge on making your choice and as Ramona says:-

" For the sailing you envisage it's not all about lounging expanse of interior but ease of handling, motion in a seaway and just a nice boat to sail."

Here are a couple you might not have seen yet.

http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/holland-30/134703

This Currawong looks good and it is at Manly in Brisbane and they are saying it is Jeff Baker built.

www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/OAG-AD-453883/1972-CURRAWONG-JOUBERT-30?cr=42&psq=%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..31%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=30&pss=Length

This Peterson has been for sale for a while and come down in price a lot.

www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/AG-AD-214975/1982-PETERSON-30?cr=59&psq=%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..31%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=45&pss=Length

The same with this Spencer.

www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-87921/1975-SPENCER-30-CRUISING-SLOOP?cr=64&psq=%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26HullType%3DMono%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B29..31%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%29&pso=60&pss=Length

Obviously whatever you buy has to be "sail away". My Lotus was "sail away" but I still have plenty of jobs to do on her. Best of luck in your search and you know we are all here to help where possible.

If you would like me to have a look at a yacht with you in Brisbane or points further north, I am happy to do that. I am a former coastal marine engineer and can give you good mechanical advice. I am on my 7th yacht and re-rigged a couple of them so can advise there as well.

Cheers Cisco.

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Jode5 said..
Hi. Banana bender
if you want to come out for a sail on a new really well set up 57 footer that has be set up to be sailed single handed, you are quite welcome. It would also let you see a quite a number of smaller boats which you are looking at being mainly sailed short handed by blokes over 60 years old (Especially on Wednesday, retirees) We social race out of Redcliffe most Wednesdays and Saturdays, just let me know if you want to come. A teak toe rail will keep things from going over the back of open transoms, my wife would not have a boat that was not easy to board over the transom. Anyone wanting to have a look at the boat, it will be on display at the Sanctuary Cove Boat in May. Below is a video we took when we sailed the boat home from Sydney before Christmas.
John

Hi Jode5, I am somewhat blown away by your offer thanks. That is one hell of a boat . Actually my daughter and soninlaw are members of Southport YC albiet with a motor cruiser ,where did I go wrong!,and have arranged for me to go down for a sail and talk to some of members in the sail squadron just to make sure thats what I want before I start spending. I envisage to be on the water by June/July as I'm going os for couple of months

A bit surprised that sailors say a modern boat is easier to sail than an S&S.

Obviously, I am biased but the S&S34 has to be the most forgiving yacht I've sailed. In 9 years and many thousands of miles it has never rounded up, is light on the helm, can withstand anything that it is likely to face. If a 16 year old girl and 17 year old boys can sail them solo around the world, they are an easy boat to sail short handed.

If the S&S30 or Defiance is anything similar, it would be an outstanding choice for a new sailor.

I was told this morning the one advertised above, "Mistress", has been sold.

Thanks Ramona and Cisco,
The boats you mention ,excepting the Lotus, are exactly those I have been researching. I am having second thoughts on their age (associated probs) and my ability to handle a thirty footer in a few years. I did a lot of single handed racing around the cans in the Columbia 27 with ease but that was 35 years ago. In boats of that era 3/5 ft. Loa can be a lot of boat hence me looking at the Holland 25. ( not for me).
There are heaps of boats in the 25/30 feet range heavily discounted for me to look at before I pull the trigger. When I come up with a short list I'll put it out for you to comment

BB if you recon the 30 foot 1/2 tonners may be a tad to big for you to handle down the track . { although i think you would be ok with self tailing genni winches }

have you considered the nth-shore 27 ? nice boats.............

I went from a quarter tonner to a halftonner. The halftonner is pretty much the sweet spot. More comfortable and easier to sail, good ballast ratio. Nice and solid at about 4 tonnes and the gear is not too heavy and sail area easily managed although I do have two speed self tailers. Easy to solo retrieve moorings and you can go sailing at the drop of a hat, sail past those old codgers stuck on their moorings on their 40 footers!

I'm waiting for the video of Jode5 dropping in a reef solo on his lovely yacht.

Ramona,
Sailing single handed has nothing to do with the size of the boat, it is how the boat is set up. I can pull a reef in thirty knots by mysefl in a boat that is far most stable than a 30 footer. I can remain seated behind the wheel in the cock pit and not even stand up. The boat has single line reelfing with no need to go anywhere near the mast. All I have to do is put the reef line round the electric self tailing winch (which can be controlled from either side of the boat) press the button and ease the main halyard at the same time. All my halyards, reef lines and sheet ropes run back to within reach of the helmsman. As I said yesterday's 30 footers are today's 50 footers. I must admit it is much more exciting running down square down wind in a sea with a spinnaker up in an old one tonner woundering which way you are going to broach at the bottom of a wave, did plenty of that in the 80s.
The way I see is, if you are out there sailing and enjoying it, it doesn't matter what you sail. I have just as much fun sailing round the canel with my grand children in an 8' Walker Bay dingy.

John

Spot on Jode!