He was proved right in court

The boat on starboard didnt maintain course and speed and actually swung its stern into the path of the port tack boat causing the contact....well, smash.

Select to expand quote

stray said..
The boat on starboard didnt maintain course and speed and actually swung its stern into the path of the port tack boat causing the contact....well, smash.

Is it Not up to the Port boat To avoid collision?

Select to expand quote

Zzzzzz said..

stray said..
The boat on starboard didnt maintain course and speed and actually swung its stern into the path of the port tack boat causing the contact....well, smash.

Is it Not up to the Port boat To avoid collision?

No it's up to both of them to avoid a collision.

The boat on starboard tack initially maintains heading and speed, but this does not devoid his responsibility to avoid a collision. Maybe his direction of turn is questionable (but we weren't there), but his actions are not bar maybe taking evasive action earlier.

Select to expand quote

Zzzzzz said..

stray said..
The boat on starboard didnt maintain course and speed and actually swung its stern into the path of the port tack boat causing the contact....well, smash.

Is it Not up to the Port boat To avoid collision?

Yes but from the camera angle the stb boat made a quick change in course which the port boat had no hope of avoiding.
Not sure how this works within racing rules but in general colregs i think the stb boat would be in the wrong.

Select to expand quote

stray said..

Zzzzzz said..

stray said..
The boat on starboard didnt maintain course and speed and actually swung its stern into the path of the port tack boat causing the contact....well, smash.

Is it Not up to the Port boat To avoid collision?

Yes but from the camera angle the stb boat made a quick change in course which the port boat had no hope of avoiding.
Not sure how this works within racing rules but in general colregs i think the stb boat would be in the wrong.

I guess if the port boat was found to be in the wrong then it probably was.
Im thinking the port boat was also trying to avoid the boat which the collision was filmed from.

Was that diver wearing a PDF or a blue double breasted blazer with brass button?

Gary

Select to expand quote

stray said..

Zzzzzz said..

stray said..
The boat on starboard didnt maintain course and speed and actually swung its stern into the path of the port tack boat causing the contact....well, smash.

Is it Not up to the Port boat To avoid collision?

Yes but from the camera angle the stb boat made a quick change in course which the port boat had no hope of avoiding.
Not sure how this works within racing rules but in general colregs i think the stb boat would be in the wrong.

Its really hard to tell from the camera angle. I thought he made a slight turn to starboard as well, but its hard to determine because the cameras moving in that direction.

i think it must be race rules being discussed as they generally are only determining who fouled who In the race/ who should've done a penalty etc. i'd find it hard to believe that a court (of law) didn't apportion some blame to the boat on starboard when he made no moves to avoid a collision.

Copied from Comments on the video
....................

A decision has been reached on the cause of the shocking collision between J Class sailing yachts Svea and Topaz during the Superyacht Challenge Antigua earlier this month. The 43.6 metre Svea was captured riding over the stern of the 42.6 metre Topaz, resulting in the injury of three crew members. A hearing report released by the J Class Association on the incident found Svea responsible for the collision for failing to keep clear as the port tack boat. It also concluded that it was deemed impossible for Topaz to avoid the collision.

Lets just be clear though Zzzzz, there is NO right of way in the Colregs. You are the Stand On Vessel.....

Maybe your title should've been "He Was the Stand On Vessel and he stood fast and payed the price"

Select to expand quote

Toph said..
Lets just be clear though Zzzzz, there is NO right of way in the Colregs. You are the Stand On Vessel.....

Maybe your title should've been "He Was the Stand On Vessel and he stood fast and payed the price"

I find it fascinating that they've chosen "stand on vessel" to replace "right of way".

The people i've come across that don't understand what having "right of way" entails are people who have never read or understood the col regs. theyve heard the terminology thrown around, but with out reading the rules they assume right of way means "i don't need to move or do anything to avoid collision"

keeping that ideology in mind, and knowing that there will always be people out there with that lack of knowledge, what do they assume these same people will make of "stand on" vessel? "Stand on" reads like a directive; "i must keep on going no matter what". It's equally as misleading, If not more so.

Subsonic, I see your point and I don't have anything to counter it

Some interesting points here and always something to learn.
I am pretty sure racing rules talk about right of way.



And COLREGs talk about stand on vessel.




Either way both say both vessels must do anything possible to avoid a collision.
Which is where it gets difficult. As a starboard tack boat that has the right of way what point do you change course to avoid a collision.
When its too late is normally the answer. But you did something to avoid the collision so you get away with it. If you just plow into them and say I was on starboard you don't get away with it.
The definitions in the racing rules are worth reading. Top tip from a friend.

Select to expand quote

Toph said..
Lets just be clear though Zzzzz, there is NO right of way in the Colregs. You are the Stand On Vessel.....

Maybe your title should've been "He Was the Stand On Vessel and he stood fast and payed the price"

Very true Toph

Without knowing any of the facts, other than watching the video, I'd say the Port tack boat is at fault.
Looked like the boat from which footage was taken made a slight turn to port, which was a bit of a d1ck move, as it may of squeezed the port boat, although it had plenty of room really to turn behind the std boat.
Std boat did attempt to avoid collision by turning away from the port boat, of course it should have turned to go up the port boats port side, and may of avoided the collision, a bit like driving a shopping trolley down an aisle, its easier to swing the ar5e end of it left to go right, but that may not have been looked on favourably if std turned up port boats port side and there was still a collision.

I go sailing to get away from the hustle and bustle of society having to take a lawyer with you defeats the purpose

Select to expand quote

Zzzzzz said..
I go sailing to get away from the hustle and bustle of society having to take a lawyer with you defeats the purpose

I hear lawyers make great anchors

Select to expand quote

BlueMoon said..

Zzzzzz said..
I go sailing to get away from the hustle and bustle of society having to take a lawyer with you defeats the purpose

I hear lawyers make great anchors

Fantastic

Select to expand quote

Zzzzzz said..
I go sailing to get away from the hustle and bustle of society having to take a lawyer with you defeats the purpose

Unfortunately if you sail in the Sydney area on a weekend, particularly Port Jackson, you are bound to have to make anti-collision decisions a lot of the time. Not fun when you are cruising, and you meet a racing fleet in full flight. The main rule then seems to be "I'm racing, so get out of my ffing way!"

I would normally try and avoid a racing fleet just out of courtesy, especially if sea space is available. But I keep my boat where there is a lot of shallow ground and not so much room so normal colregs will apply regardless of their abuse.I wonder what would happen if I displayed the constraint by draft shapes.

Select to expand quote

Toph said..
I would normally try and avoid a racing fleet just out of courtesy, especially if sea space is available. But I keep my boat where there is a lot of shallow ground and not so much room so normal colregs will apply regardless of their abuse.I wonder what would happen if I displayed the constraint by draft shapes.

Racing fleets are a whole new world , lost count of the amount of times I have been abused as they roar through , I really think the clubs need to sit down and talk to the fleet about how privileged they are to have public water ways set aside and marked off for their activity, they really do think they own the water.

Me, Happily cruising down Sydney Harbour on a Starboard tack......
other yacht on Port tack, on collision course: "Racing!!!!"
Me: "Good luck!"

Select to expand quote

Zzzzzz said..

Toph said..

Racing fleets are a whole new world , lost count of the amount of times I have been abused as they roar through , I really think the clubs need to sit down and talk to the fleet about how privileged they are to have public water ways set aside and marked off for their activity, they really do think they own the water.

Unfortunately the clubs have to register and pay for those courses. The sailors are paying for the right to use that area and they think they have more rights! This is unfortunate and can lead to some bitter fighting among the plebs.

Select to expand quote

BlueMoon said..
Me, Happily cruising down Sydney Harbour on a Starboard tack......
other yacht on Port tack, on collision course: "Racing!!!!"
Me: "Good luck!"

I seem to remember a member on here a while back had a similar shout out from a "racing fleet" and shouted back "not insured"

Select to expand quote

BlueMoon said..
Without knowing any of the facts, other than watching the video, I'd say the Port tack boat is at fault.
Looked like the boat from which footage was taken made a slight turn to port, which was a bit of a d1ck move, as it may of squeezed the port boat, although it had plenty of room really to turn behind the std boat.
Std boat did attempt to avoid collision by turning away from the port boat, of course it should have turned to go up the port boats port side, and may of avoided the collision, a bit like driving a shopping trolley down an aisle, its easier to swing the ar5e end of it left to go right, but that may not have been looked on favourably if std turned up port boats port side and there was still a collision.

I'm with you on this. No idea about how maneuverable those monsters are but I bet you have to keep a big margin of error in finding your clear lane. I'm thinking that the port boat had a major misjudgement and was not able to crack the sails off quickly enough to bear off. I wonder if there was anyone filming on the boats involved, be interesting to see what helm and trim adjustments were made, perhaps with a black box recording of the instrument data you could reconstruct how they responded.

My two bobs worth. At the very beginning of the video, a J does a hard 90 degree maneuver in 5 seconds, that's pretty responsive for a vessel of this size, so I don't buy into them being too big to turn quickly enough. When the camera swings over to the port vessel, right up until the time of the collision, roughly 6 seconds has elapsed. And if you look carefully, there's no discernible alteration in course from the port vessel right up until the point of collision. The port vessel also had enough sea room to take evasive action, just a few meters would have done it and wouldn't have put it in danger with the vessel with the camera person. When the starboard vessel realised that the port vessel wasn't taking evasive action, he tried to do so at the last moment. The port vessel was clearly in the wrong and it looks like the helmsman either had a restricted view, was distracted or just a plain bad driver. Remember they are racing and the starboard boat holding course seems pretty reasonable to me.

Select to expand quote

2bish said..
My two bobs worth. At the very beginning of the video, a J does a hard 90 degree maneuver in 5 seconds, that's pretty responsive for a vessel of this size, so I don't buy into them being too big to turn quickly enough. When the camera swings over to the port vessel, right up until the time of the collision, roughly 6 seconds has elapsed. And if you look carefully, there's no discernible alteration in course from the port vessel right up until the point of collision. The port vessel also had enough sea room to take evasive action, just a few meters would have done it and wouldn't have put it in danger with the vessel with the camera person. When the starboard vessel realised that the port vessel wasn't taking evasive action, he tried to do so at the last moment. The port vessel was clearly in the wrong and it looks like the helmsman either had a restricted view, was distracted or just a plain bad driver. Remember they are racing and the starboard boat holding course seems pretty reasonable to me.

Very well put right of way is a legitimate tactic in racing and for what ever reason the port vessel did nothing to avoid collision I cannot think of any reason the port vessel hung onto its track there is no seeable advantage legally

Human error. They F'd up. Very lucky no one was killed.

Select to expand quote

tarquin1 said..
Human error. They F'd up. Very lucky no one was killed.

Check at 0:29 and at 0:44 again. Looks like this guy copped it in the head, that would have hurt.

Port skipper would've had obscured vision of starboard vessel too.