Will Hugo Boss or Charal be the common seabreezers boat in 2040?

What design/material/size will be the standard 'seabreezer' available yacht in 20-30yrs?

Ie the post 'Best pre 1990 yachts to buy in the 26 -35 ft cruiser category?' is after what yachts are affordable for an average cruiser now - what about later?

I see current Vendee boats/tech being modded to suit cruising, cost efficiencies, enough hulls available to be a more day-to-day yacht.

Time pressures with cruising distances or avoiding more frequent/erratic poor weather systems = foil

No, I just plan on sticking with the Van De Stadt.

Haha, well named post for you Futurecruiser.

But, will your VDS have at least DSS by then?

Not gonna happen any time soon for the common cruiser.

This was the early 1970s - www.foilingweek.com/2015/04/20/williwaw-the-real-first-foiling-cruiser-20-000-miles-from-1970-to-1974/ - and still hasn't caught on.

However I can see that there'll be inroads at the smaller end of the scale. www.fulcrumspeedworks.com/UFO/overview/

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dism said..
Will Hugo Boss or Charal be the common seabreezers boat in 2040?

What design/material/size will be the standard 'seabreezer' available yacht in 20-30yrs?

Ie the post 'Best pre 1990 yachts to buy in the 26 -35 ft cruiser category?' is after what yachts are affordable for an average cruiser now - what about later?

I see current Vendee boats/tech being modded to suit cruising, cost efficiencies, enough hulls available to be a more day-to-day yacht.

Time pressures with cruising distances or avoiding more frequent/erratic poor weather systems = foil

if a boat is purposefully built for racing, why would you want that to use as a cruiser. Both boats should be racers even in 2040. But as you can see on my post of pre 1990 Cruiser boats, you will find people debating just for the sake of debating, so I'd say "everything is possible".

Interesting question dism. I've wondered myself how things may evolve, certainly things seem to be going in leaps and bounds over the past few years with dss and foils, and look at the new AC75 foiling mono hulls!

Picking up something like an Infiniti Yacht in 10-15 years time is a real possibility, and who knows what will hit the market in th next 5 years or so. Have you seen the Bente 39 dism? No foils, but definitely running with some interesting ideas at a good price point.
interestingsailboats.blogspot.com/2018/10/bente-39-inexpensive-and-looking-good.html

I have a 1971 JOG racer (Tophat 25), it is very much a cruiser now.

Technology improvements in composites, computer modelling etc to improve systems are more rapid now (so the prior 50yrs of change could happen in the next 20yrs).

So bit of new control system tech, detuning to a fast cruiser and voila - foilcruisers for the average cruiser?

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Seebreasy73 said..

if a boat is purposefully built for racing, why would you want that to use as a cruiser.

Because it gets you to your intended anchorage before sundown while the so called "comfortable cruising yacht" is still bashing the weather at midnight.
Seems to me that you are the one who wants to debate for the sake of debating.

2bish - cheers, hadn't come across the Infiniti and especially Bente39 - they just need to depreciate alot below $330k currently.

Basically foils can negate the slow coastal passage delivery times, bringing cruising grounds closer together in distance-time issue in a time poor world.

Gives a fast foilcruiser some of the benefits of the trailersailing capability

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dism said..
Haha, well named post for you Futurecruiser.

But, will your VDS have at least DSS by then?

Sorry couldn't resist. It is an interesting question but I can't see it to be honest. Feel like the cost of such accessories will be prohibitive for most for a fair while to come if nothing else.

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Futurecruiser said..
Sorry couldn't resist. It is an interesting question but I can't see it to be honest.

Don't worry mate. Your VDS 34 will take you far and wide through fair and foul as well as your grand children should they inherit your bent.

They are a classic design which is exampled by the Dufor 34 or is the Dehler 34?

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dism said..
2bish - cheers, hadn't come across the Infiniti and especially Bente39 - they just need to depreciate alot below $330k currently.

Basically foils can negate the slow coastal passage delivery times, bringing cruising grounds closer together in distance-time issue in a time poor world.

Gives a fast foilcruiser some of the benefits of the trailersailing capability

Depreciate they will!

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cisco said..

Futurecruiser said..
Sorry couldn't resist. It is an interesting question but I can't see it to be honest.

Don't worry mate. Your VDS 34 will take you far and wide through fair and foul as well as your grand children should they inherit your bent.

They are a classic design which is exampled by the Dufor 34 or is the Dehler 34?

Hope so, though more fair than foul would be good. Both look pretty similar, not sure where you'd put the wings! I think I'm going to have to change my forum name anyway btw, it's future cruiser no more. Will be stopping by your neck of woods on the way north next year if all goes to plan Cisco.

I'd say anything is possible if they can get the production costs down v the benefits of lighter/faster/more stable.

www.balticyachts.fi/2018/12/13/supercharged-foil-assisted-baltic-142-canova-on-course-for-spring-launch/

... While foils may never become the norm, multihulls are becoming ore popular - though not necessarily faster. Also, by 2040 rising property prices and sea levels may see a generation of liveaboards... 2090, Waterworld anyone?

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cisco said..

Seebreasy73 said..

if a boat is purposefully built for racing, why would you want that to use as a cruiser.

Because it gets you to your intended anchorage before sundown while the so called "comfortable cruising yacht" is still bashing the weather at midnight.
Seems to me that you are the one who wants to debate for the sake of debating.

sailing is sailing, plan your journey's and accept that the winds are not in your favour. If you are in a hurry, buy a motorboat.

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Futurecruiser said..

Will be stopping by your neck of woods on the way north next year if all goes to plan Cisco.

Please do drop in. Love to see your yacht.

On that Bente 39, I was looking at the interior pictures, repeatedly, still was not able to spot one single grab-rail let alone clip-on point while the corners of the furniture are rather sharp.
I might be too demanding but the boat is being advertised as a 'future cruiser' not 'bruiser' which would be the case even in moderate weather just boiling the kettle.

At least there is no idiotic double island-bed dreamed into the design which feature makes any yacht meant to be sailed a proper laughing stock in my eyes.

The 'skylight' cover is interesting if it is made absolutely scratch-resistant.

Why none of the modern designs incorporating solar panels into their designs? Thou I am ignorant of the construction of pv'panels l would like to see more, much more pv'panels integrated into decks and other surfaces on the new designs.

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Seebreasy73 said..
sailing is sailing, plan your journey's and accept that the winds are not in your favour. If you are in a hurry, buy a motorboat.

Yes, sailing is sailing. Some yachts sail more efficiently than others so as I have said before I would much rather have the pick down at sundown and be sipping on a coldie than still be out there late at night bashing the weather.

This has happened when I was on my Peterson 42 and the other two yachts I was travelling in company with were a Roberts 43 and a Roberts 38.

It is not about being in a hurry. It is about getting the best out of your yacht in whatever the conditions happen to be.

Many of the late 70s and early 80s yachts have proven themselves to be excellent "Future Cruisers" and are still very relevant today.

I'm with all@sea on this one. Foils often produce dramatically less speed than a lot of the hype would imply. For example, the international small cat rating system used to reckon that foils made a boat 7% quicker - now they reckon the advantage is 4%. Sure, it's still significant, but not enormous - that's about as much as you gain from all-round speed in using a spinnaker and many cruisers don't do that.

The other thing is that fast foilers are low drag boats with low-drag rigs (ie very flat sails). When you put foils on a normal boat, like a Laser, the range of foiling is dramatically reduced because their higher-drag hulls need more wind to get to foiling speed even when driven by a more powerful higher-drag rig, and once they do foil the top end speed is reduced by the high-drag rig. "Normal" hulls (ie ones that aren't very slender like Moth hulls or cat hulls) can also feel to be really slowed down in waves by foils, which stop the hull lifting to meet the waves.

Some of the same remarks seem to apply to Vendee type boats. The foilers are apparently slower in light winds than the normal Opens, and the normal Opens are actually not great performers in light winds, short courses or heavy beats themselves in many ways. They go very well at times, but then again they are very big boats (huge rig, huge beam, wide stern, lots of complex systems) for their artificially short length so why choose that hull style if you're not restricted by length rules?

Go back a while and you'll see people predicting that future cruisers would have water ballast, winged keels, canting keels, parasail-type kites and other tech that has never become popular. Even things like carbon masts, now about 40 years old, haven't become popular in cruisers. Perhaps the real improvement would be if systems were made simpler to reduce maintenance.

Speaking as a cruiser who rarely gets passed by any other boats (maybe five times in 18 years) I think speed is here already - just get a performance cat. Really simple and tried technology.

What is missing in many people's ideas about speed is lack of fuss when going fast. When day racing I want lots of spray, noise and thrill. When cruising I want to cover miles quickly with no fuss. So be careful copying race boats - they may pound or slam, need continuous sailing at high pressure modes or have little weight carrying capacity.

If you steer clear of the Lagoons etc, you can find some very nice daggerboard cats that can average 8 knots for most of their trips. We usually count on that for a nice breeze and have sailed from Coffs to Port Stephens in one day from early dawn to late dusk - 160 miles in 16 hours - 4 am to 8pm. Did the opposite direction too - Coffs to Southport in 16 hours too - same distance. It is nice to be able to put the hammer down and have the autopilot do its thing and just watch the world go by.

When we crossed Bass Strait last year we motored at first at about 7 knots and then when the breeze came in we put the reacher up and VMGed the boat across the strait. We got to St Helens where we crossed the bar well before the southerly came in. Averaged up to 10 knots for about 6 hours when the wind was nice.

To average 10 knots we have to hit 14s regularly. To average 14 (we have done this for about one hour) you have to be hitting 18s a lot.

We have many boats that can average high speeds with ease, that have great interior room and that can cross almost any bar that a tinnie can - they are called performance cats. Talk to Schionning, Pescott, Chamberlin, Oram or Grainger.

When sailing a nice cat, you can only put the hammer down in particular circumstances. The sea has to be low, the angle correct and I like to be able to see all of the weather. So we hit big speeds ( averaging 10 plus) pretty rarely. On a Whitsunday trip after a couple of thousand miles the GPS usually has an average of 7.8 knots. This includes all the time the GPS is on, so faffing around in shoal water, anchorages etc but we don't go fast all the time.

What I really like is the ability to put up reachers and kites and get my boat trucking in 10 knots breeze - doing 8-9 and sometimes windspeed in lighter conditions. Then it is magic carpet stuff. Autopilot on, drinks on the table, eating up the miles.

I know most people here sail monos and for me I could cruise a mono if it could perform like my cat but and this is a big but, I would miss the ability to get into thin water like Zoe creek and dry out in Bittangabee. That is where a cat is unbeatable - they can go fast AND have no design compromises for shoal draft. My cat has three draft modes - boards down 2 metres, rudders down 1 metre. Rudders up 0.5m. Speed and useful shoal draft are the way I like to cruise. If you want more speed, the future has been here for twenty years - you just need to get a fast cat.
cheers

Phil

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FreeRadical said..
I'd say anything is possible if they can get the production costs down v the benefits of lighter/faster/more stable.

www.balticyachts.fi/2018/12/13/supercharged-foil-assisted-baltic-142-canova-on-course-for-spring-launch/

It's alluring what the DSS system promises to deliver. And the fact that the horizontal foil retracts completely into the hull when not needed is a huge bonus in my eyes too. Of course there's the initial high cost of building in this kind of system and it adds one more major mechanical/electrical system that can go wrong. However gaining more righting moment/less heel, less drag and the resulting higher speeds all with the added bonus of pitch and heave dampening, at the push of a button, that's a lot to like!

With license costs alone of about $100,000 for a 60 footer plus the cost of the foil, case and control systems, one would hope it would work! One thing I've never been able to find out is how they go in a broach. As you slow down, the lift will reduce just when you need it. The DSS foil would also seem to be in a perfect position to trip the boat as it heels.

I'm not against new tech per se, but the sport of sailing isn't doing well during a time when there have been vast changes in high-tech design so it is apparent that in some ways, we are heading the wrong way. The boats that are selling are generally at the cruisier or cheaper end of the market but the industry, governing bodies and media are promoting the inaccessible high-tech types that with one or two exceptions (Waszp and perhaps foiling windsurfers) are not attracting any significant popularity.

Since 2006, sailing's popularity in the UK has dropped by one third according to their national sporting survey. We are clearly doing something very wrong.