My Tophat came with an Autohelm ST2000, which is currently working with no problems. As I usually sail solo, the self-steering system is quite critical. If I can set off for some multi-day cruises, possibly with overnight sailing, I would be in fear of the autohelm failing. I am quite taken by the idea of a vane system, with no power consumption, but this may be over-capitalising the little Tophat. A cheaper alternative would be to carry a spare autohelm (even an ST1000). I probably have just enough house battery and solar to run constantly, but would need to closely monitor same.

The ST2000 is purely working off the fluxgate, with no reference to wind, so needs to be re-set for direction changes.

I have had reasonable success with a lashed-helm system when close-hauled (using small link stainless chain onto the autohelm pin); but when the wind is on the beam or abaft, the Tophat needs much closer attention, especially if the following sea is over 1 m.

So, brains trust: is it worth carrying a spare autohelm? Do any of you solo sailors carry a plan B?

A windvane is worth the money

My best mate in Bundaberg has an all stainless and complete Flemming self steerer that he took off his Adams 31 as he now only cruises coastal.

It is in "as new" condition and he will sell it. It has the $600 drum to suit wheel steering or can be used on tiller steering.

If you are interested in it PM me and I will put you in contact with him.

Get a wind van as well,my 4 month old tiller pilot failed on my trip north. Took 5 weeks to get it replaced. Im now looking at vanes myself

For mine saintpeter, a windvane for a singlehander is great. There is no comparison between the reliability of a purely mechanical windvane and an electronic autohelm.
My current situation is a case in point - during a cruise around Wilsons Prom last week, I forgot to release the brake on the rudder that I had set when we anchored the night before.
The result was, after a few hours operation, the autohelm failed with stripped gears!
This was even more frustrating because I did the same thing a few years ago
I was very glad I had my Monitor windvane - which I prefer to use whenever possible.
By the way, I don't understand why one would not use a windvane when one 'only cruises coastal'
regards,
Allan

Buy or build a windvane. Have a small tillerpilot to attach to the windvane for motoring if you want. I have an ST2000 kicking about in my sail room somewhere if you want parts.
Check out this forum. www.cruisersforum.com/forums/tags/windvane.html
I'm Ramona there too but have not posted recently.

Plenty of Youtube videos about. Here is one of mine.

If you've got a working autopilot, then all you need to take is a $5 piece of surgical tubing. Believe me, its absolutely true. A fellow started out from Los Angeles to the South Pacific and a few days out his autopilot failed. He used this method for the rest of the crossing with nary a worry. You will find the method described very clearly in the free book on singlehanded sailing here: www.sfbaysss.org/main/resources/ and you will see the video here:
It's silly to spend money and time for a backup system when a bungee cord or surgical tubing will get you where you want to go in comfort.

A few things to consider:
a Top Hat weighs about 2300kg. From memory, an Adams31 is over 3000 kg.
Most people considering a Windvane for a TH look for a light model, 15-20 kg max. The transom of a TH mk2 or mk3 is quite light, I think the my1 was heavier as they often had an OBM transom mounted. I had to reinforce my mk3 to put a (temporary) OBM bracket and 5hp Honda on the back. I did this by getting in to the lazarette. Fitting a Windvane will likely require you to cut an access hole in the rear cockpit area to adequately brace the Windvane mounting brackets.
The one mentioned by Cisco sounds great, but may be heavy, plus as TH has verticle transom and the Adams a reverse incline, you might need a new upper bracket. Check the Windvane website for info.
A backup ST1000 is immediately applicable, can be stored safe at home when not used, and easily sold on next season if you confirm a Windvane is for you.

A few points:

There's no doubt windvanes are great and a preferred solution for extended cruising, but they involve a lot of work to mount, plus you probably have to give up your boarding ladder. So to some extent it gets down to time and money. If you only do the occasional multi-day sail and are always less than a day's sail from an anchorage, a tillerpilot will be fine, but for further offshore maybe not. Maybe then carry a spare (borrow a mate's). Worst case you may have to hand-steer for a day which is a pain but doable. The Raymarines have a design flaw that lets them stall out at the end of stroke and after a while they chew up the cogged belts or burn out the motor (ask me how I know.....). This makes them vulnerable in brisker conditions where quite a bit of hard-over rudder may be unavoidable. I have now added end-of-travel limit switches inside mine to prevent this. The Simrads have stall prevention built in and hence don't have this problem. Some windvanes may also not work very well for motoring or downwind sailing, which would be a pain because it's almost impossible to set up a balanced self-steer in those situations. Also, learn how to tune your tillerpilot to get best performance as this will markedly reduce power drain.

The sheet-to-tiller steering may work for some boats some of the time, but does require fairly frequent intervention and won't help you much in variable winds or, as you've found, with bigger waves knocking the nose around. I've never had much luck with it, but I have had my boat sail hands-off for ages on some points of reaching with a bit of stretchy or lashed tiller

As always, the solution depends on your proposed use.

Cheers, Graeme

MB has a Fleming vane and a Simrad tiller pilot.
If you are cruising well offshore the vane is outstanding. No, it is better than that.
If you are cruising coastal and want to sleep use a tiller pilot. A wind change could cause the Fleming to steer you to the rocks. Not an issue many miles out but if 2-3 miles off it is a real problem. Those using vanes close in to the rocks aren't long distance cruising where you need to get the head down for hours at a time.
The Simrad was bought for $950 fromWhitworths in 2009. It got a new drive belt a few years ago but otherwise has not been touched. It has been dropped, sat on, bent, drowned in sea water numerous times and has never let me down.

ON Ciella I have a Fleming windvane, which works outstanding. And a Raymarine tiller pilot for when the wind is too light for the Fleming. On a S&S 34 this works very well. I am about to cross the Tasman (twice) to participate in the 2018 Solo Trans Tasman Yacht Challenge. Pretty sure I am the only competitor with a windvane. All other rely on electric autopilots. The problem with modern boats is that the cord of the keels get so short that there is no course stability and this is what a windvane needs to work properly. The build-in autopilots are pretty reliable nowadays, but you need the power supply. There is nothing I hate more than having to run the engine to top up batteries.

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Ciella said..
ON Ciella I have a Fleming windvane, which works outstanding. And a Raymarine tiller pilot for when the wind is too light for the Fleming. On a S&S 34 this works very well. I am about to cross the Tasman (twice) to participate in the 2018 Solo Trans Tasman Yacht Challenge. Pretty sure I am the only competitor with a windvane. All other rely on electric autopilots. The problem with modern boats is that the cord of the keels get so short that there is no course stability and this is what a windvane needs to work properly. The build-in autopilots are pretty reliable nowadays, but you need the power supply. There is nothing I hate more than having to run the engine to top up batteries.

Another S&S34 on here. If you stop in Sydney please PM me to catch up for a chat.

Wongaga said,

A few points:
There's no doubt windvanes are great and a preferred solution for extended cruising, but they involve a lot of work to mount, plus you probably have to give up your boarding ladder.


That's exactly what happened to me last time I went north. In the end stripped it down and stored it away.

But if you plan to take a Top Hat around Aus you will need one. Coastal not really necessary. I had no problem with power as I've got a 100w of solar and 224 amp hours of battery [ok for overnight too]

Wow - thanks all. !
You have all raised some very good points. But one that resonates is MorningBird's comment that relying on the vane when close to the bricks could be problematical for sleeping. For me that means no-one on watch - I know the safety nazis will have a fit, but that's the way it is.

So, my current plan will be to carry a spare tillerpilot, kept new in box until needed. An increase in solar capacity is also warranted. I also believe I can refine the bungey-tiller system, using my light chain as a limiter, for upwind sailing, as the TopHat can be balanced for this aspect.

My next boat will be a bit bigger and will definitely sport a good vane!!

I tried sheet to tiller over a year or so. Got it to work sort of but in reality, my experience is it is bloody useless. It works on my boat if you monitor it continuously but you can't leave it alone.

ST1000 and 2000 are dark colours. Sitting in a sunny cockpit can make them awful hot. I've seen a few comments about cases buckling allowing water in. I used to just throw a t shirt over mine, but others have had a lighter colour canvas cover made that allows a screen view.

Re sheet to tiller systems like I described above. Keep in mind that the OP was only looking for a spare steering system in case his autopilot fails. Also that he is sailing just a few days out, not crossing an ocean. Given that we all face tight budgets and I'd rather spend my money on something that is actually useful, and not just sitting as a spare, a short piece of surgical tubing that will get the job done, not perfectly, but sufficiently, is a preferred choice. I've done extensive testing and I know that they work. Yes, they do require some attention, but they certainly do work as described.

My yacht will steer all day close hauled or close reaching with just a rope to the tiller to hold it against the weather helm, don't need the shock cord, Off wind takes a lot of fiddling about and you may need to reduce the mainsail to get it to work.
I engage my windvane as soon as I cross the bar, sometimes before depending where I'm heading. Quick and easy and almost silent. The tiller pilot is not silent and will be very annoying after ten minutes. Also not very powerful, not sure what the limit is, something like 30 kilos so when you most need power for heavy weather the tiller pilot will let you down. The windvane of the servo type once you have about 2 knots of boat speed is very powerful and this power increases as you go faster through the water. The tiller pilot attached to the windvane would make more sense for in close work or sailing or motoring down wind in drifting conditions. The wind blade is removed and the tiller pilot actuation arm is attached in it's place. You steer a compass course but the power used by the pilot is miniscule but you have all the benefits of a servo system with sometimes enormous power. The tiller pilot life should be long.
The downside of a windvane is it's hard not to sit and watch it!

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Ramona said..
. The tiller pilot is not silent and will be very annoying after ten minutes. Also not very powerful, not sure what the limit is, something like 30 kilos so when you most need power for heavy weather the tiller pilot will let you down.

Over several multi-week cruises I found the ST2000+ noise quite unobtrusive. The TP22 is a bit noisier but you get used to it.
As to power/thrust, the ST2000+ is rated at 77kg not 30 and this was more than adequate for my Compass 28, even with a heap of weather helm. So it would have plenty of oomph for a Top Hat. But having said that, tiller pilots certainly have their limits when the wind is up and a wind vane would is in its element - but you gets what you pays for. But we are discussing the OP's needs, and he is not crossing the Tasman or any other ocean.

You don't have to lose access to your stern because of a wind vane - I made a gate and mounted the wind vane on that. I just swing it away to get full access to the stern for fishing, boarding ladder etc.

I use the windvane whenever I can - it's so nice not to have the aaark-aaark of the autopilot interrupting the other natural sounds like the swish of the water, the wind, etc.

Like Ramona, it's hard not to just sit and watch it - like the 30 mile leg in 2-3m following sea with a cross swell and 20-25kn @ about 150deg apparent, that we had down around the Prom last week.

It truly was amazing to watch, it handled the conditions far better that I ever could - and didn't need a break. My wife was also impressed, and when I told her some people named their windvanes, she came up with 'Heso' (He's so Vane) - so that's what we call him now...

regards to all,
Allan

Yep, my Fleming was christened Carly on an earlier circumnavigation on a different S&S34 for the same reason.
To me, when inshore it isn't worth the effort to drop the Fleming rudder into the water, connect the lines to the tiller and orient the vane to the relative wind when I can plug in the Simrad TP32 and hit a button.
When first engaged the TP32 steers continuously until it figures out the boat's motion, then it settles down. It is quite noisy, at nearly 10 years old to be expected, but once it has adjusted its gain to the sea state it isn't an issue.
I use it inshore all the time and use it offshore when motoring due lack of wind. It has an operating load of 85kg and has steered MB in 30kts downwind, no mean feat in an S&S.
It is particularly useful for coastal nav as it steers to waypoints.
I also use it for ocean passages to calculate leeway, current and drift. Lord Howe is say 070 M, engage the TP32 to Lord Howe waypoint and it figures out the heading to make good the track. Disconnect the pilot and engage the vane on that heading. Repeat every 3 or so hours.
Having both is the ideal.

On my current Bass Strait trip I have both a Fleming unit and a Tiller pilot. Couldn't image doing the trip with them.

Its a lot of work and money to put on wind vane steering, so your boat needs to be a keeper.

A

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Ciella said..
ON Ciella I have a Fleming windvane, which works outstanding. And a Raymarine tiller pilot for when the wind is too light for the Fleming. On a S&S 34 this works very well. I am about to cross the Tasman (twice) to participate in the 2018 Solo Trans Tasman Yacht Challenge. Pretty sure I am the only competitor with a windvane. All other rely on electric autopilots. The problem with modern boats is that the cord of the keels get so short that there is no course stability and this is what a windvane needs to work properly. The build-in autopilots are pretty reliable nowadays, but you need the power supply. There is nothing I hate more than having to run the engine to top up batteries.

Hi, I am in New Plymouth if you need a hand before the start, Dave

Hey Saintpeter,
I have a MK3 Tophat with an Aries windvane fitted.I also have a ST1000 (which just last week burnt the motor out due to a well documented design fault)
I picked up the lightly used Aries several years ago and fitted it to my Toppy with the idea that I would also move it to a bigger boat if I ever upsized.
It takes 1min to drop the servo rudder in the water,30 sec to fit the ply vane and 30 sec to set the course.
It doesn't argue with me,it doesn't get tired and need a rest,it doesn't chew any electicity,it doesn't worry when the wind picks up and most importantly it doesn't want to steal your beer.
For me it is the best bit of kit I have ever brought for a boat.....(other than a fridge to keep the beer cold)
I sail singlehanded mostly and use the vane extensively.The only time I used the ST1000 was in very light conditions.

Don't discount a wind vane especially if you can see a bigger boat in your future.
Cheers

I am guessing that OP means 'Original Poster'.

This has been a great thread. And now I will have to buy a bigger boat, so that I can use a vane !!

And but the way, Foolish, where should I look for 'surgical tubing' (apart from the obvious operating theatre).

lots of it available on eBay...

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saintpeter said..
I am guessing that OP means 'Original Poster'.

This has been a great thread. And now I will have to buy a bigger boat, so that I can use a vane !!

And but the way, Foolish, where should I look for 'surgical tubing' (apart from the obvious operating theatre).

Just use shockcord. You may not even need it with a Tophat with it's long keel and reasonable weather helm. Have a look at all the YouTube videos available on windvanes and self steering systems in general. Download the free books on solo sailing and read a few of the many books written by solo voyagers.

......not to mention hooking up your ST1000 directly to operate your Windvane in light conditions.
......Google and Youtube are your friends.

"And but the way, Foolish, where should I look for 'surgical tubing' (apart from the obvious operating theatre)."

Any medical supply store will carry it. and most large drug stores as well. It's very cheap. You only need 6' to cross the ocean.

Bungee cord (or shock cord) will also work fine but it is generally accepted that surgical tubing has a more consistent stretch. I've found a huge variance in the quality of shock cord depending on the manufacturer.

No wonder the st1000 burned out. Your boat is over spec. for that model. Need st2000 for that weight.

Aquatronic in Newport will fix it for you. 0434 350 204