Hi all. Long time reader of this forum whilst performing my search for a yacht.

My sailing background - Have sailed many dinghys, Sabots, Lasers, Sharpies and Herons mainly as a teenager, as well as some stints crewing on a keel yacht, however i'd still call my keel experience limited. I have next to no skippering experience on a keelboat.

I've been eyeing off purchasing my first keelboat, with the following uses in mind:
Twilight racing
Weekend/Overnights
Day cruising with family and friends.
I'm looking for something that can eventually be sailed shorthand after getting some more practise under my belt, ideally solo but also 2 handed. I figure around the 32 foot mark is ideal for size vs budget.

For those familiar with Hobart, I plan on eventually day tripping down the Derwent to South Arm/Kingston beach etc, and weekending down the Channel and Bruny island. We don't have kids (yet) however would like something that we can grow in to.

This boat has come up for sale in my local area, and it ticks most of my boxes, including having an enclosed head/shower for my partner. Looks like there are some improvements that could be done to make the interior a bit tidier, but i'm not afraid/inexperienced with DIY.
I'm not able to post the link yet, it's a northshore 33 available for sale on Gumtree in Hobart, should be easy to find. or you can paste this after .au/ in the gumtree URL. s-ad/bellerive/sail-boats/yacht-northshore-33/1306056275

I'm looking for any and all advice related to NS33's, especially common issues or things I should look out for when I first inspect it, as i'm feeling very overwhelmed by the whole process. I'd also welcome any advice relating to price range, as I feel this one is slightly high, based on the images.
I've estimated about 5 grand a year to berth it, and about 2 grand a year on insurance. Does that seem reasonable?
Survey estimate - $800-$1000

I sailed Havefun's NS33 around Sydney and Pittwater and as far as Nelson's Bay and back.

It is a very nice yacht accommodation wise. It sails well and is quite fast. But it is quite light and tender, at least compared to my ex S&S34, and it is critical to reduce sail early, especially the main.

Probably a very good 1st keel boat but I'd have it set up for reefing from the cockpit as you will be doing a lot of it.

I looked at a couple on my way to buying my 38.
I do remember the rudder, which of course is fully visible, having a rather suspect looking join around where the two halves are put together on the one I inspected. Join the North Shore Yacht Owners site on Facebook. I think I have seen others who have had to rebuild the rudders. Not the end of the world but something to avoid if you can. Maybe the boat you are looking at has already had it done.
Northshore Yachts have a reputation for being well built and not being subject to osmosis. The cast iron keels are a bit of a pain to maintain but they are by no means alone in this regard. If the chainplates have been leaking at any point then serious damage could have occurred to the timber bulkhead on which they are mounted but once again this is not a problem peculiar to North Shore Yachts..
A Good luck with your purchase. A good surveyor should sort things out for you :-)

Thanks both for your replies. I don't use facebook, so unfortunately that avenue is out.

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julesmoto said..
I do remember the rudder, which of course is fully visible, having a rather suspect looking join around where the two halves are put together on the one I inspected.

Is the join down the middle like two halves of the foil are sandwiched together? I'll be sure to check that out when I inspect it. I'm not in love with the exposed ruddder, but I guess it does have it's benefits too.
Can you share more information regarding maintenance required for the cast iron keel? Does it just need to be painted with epoxy to avoid rusting?

Yes for the rudder and yes for the keel but as the keel needs to be perfectly dry and all rust traces removed and it's faired into the hull at the top properly applying epoxy coats is a big deal. Usually people just treat any blisters or patches each time it is slipped rather than doing the whole thing. It's something shipwrights are very familiar with as almost all modern production yachts are the same - Benateaus...

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julesmoto said..
Yes for the rudder and yes for the keel but as the keel needs to be perfectly dry and all rust traces removed and it's faired into the hull at the top properly applying epoxy coats is a big deal. Usually people just treat any blisters or patches each time it is slipped rather than doing the whole thing. It's something shipwrights are very familiar with as almost all modern production yachts are the same - Benateaus...

It seems from the listing that the keel has just been epoxied and painted which is a positive, along with new standing rigging and kevlar main. Now waiting for a response from the seller to hopefully go have a look at it. Anything else I should at to the list for my inspection prior to getting a surveyor involved? I was planning on looking for signs of water intrusion and rust through deck fittings, checking the bilge for water and the colour of it, engine starts easily and all electronics and taps etc are working. I was also just going to look in every nook and cranny/cupboard etc for damage, damp or discolouration.

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MorningBird said..
I sailed Havefun's NS33 around Sydney and Pittwater and as far as Nelson's Bay and back.

It is a very nice yacht accommodation wise. It sails well and is quite fast. But it is quite light and tender, at least compared to my ex S&S34, and it is critical to reduce sail early, especially the main.

Probably a very good 1st keel boat but I'd have it set up for reefing from the cockpit as you will be doing a lot of it.

I think it's overpriced. This one is interesting!
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-34/287391
Remember these are the initial asking prices. Tasmanian boats always seem to be over priced!

Seems you have the right idea about what to look at before you get a surveyor involved. Definitely take a small torch with you.
Don't be afraid to make a low offer but Northshore Yachts do command a bit of a premium because they were all factory built with internal liners that are bright and stand up to wear and tear well (as opposed to timber) plus good reputation for lack of osmosis.
Seems a bit higher than when I was looking a couple of years ago which I already thought was quite an expensive time but things like a new engine or sails, instruments or rig are quickly worth the money
You will of course get the NS premium back when you sell. I don't know what your budget is like but I thought the extra premium for the 38 was worth it over the 33. The 38 is truly a go anywhere boat.

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Ramona said..

MorningBird said..
I sailed Havefun's NS33 around Sydney and Pittwater and as far as Nelson's Bay and back.

It is a very nice yacht accommodation wise. It sails well and is quite fast. But it is quite light and tender, at least compared to my ex S&S34, and it is critical to reduce sail early, especially the main.

Probably a very good 1st keel boat but I'd have it set up for reefing from the cockpit as you will be doing a lot of it.

I think it's overpriced. This one is interesting!
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-34/287391
Remember these are the initial asking prices. Tasmanian boats always seem to be over priced!

Is that Morningbirds morningbird? Feels only been 12 months .

Some of this might be relevant for you when you are eyeballing it?
www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Marine%20Survey%20101.htm

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Ramona said..,

I think it's overpriced.
Remember these are the initial asking prices. Tasmanian boats always seem to be over priced!

I did initially think the same, even factoring in a Tassie tax. Was probably leaning closer to 50. Unfortunately I don't have the skills yet to get a boat from the mainland, and factoring in arranging a berth etc (this is all brand new for me) I can accept somewhat of a premium because it will avoid me having to arrange and pay for delivery + flights to inspect etc.

But comparing it to others going for 55ish they are somewhat better maintained inside.

I also see that it has a new main and standing rigging, which is. Considerable outlay that I will not have to do in the immediate future.

What would you price it at?

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julesmoto said..
You will of course get the NS premium back when you sell. I don't know what your budget is like but I thought the extra premium for the 38 was worth it over the 33. The 38 is truly a go anywhere boat.

This is about right on my budget for a purchase, with some left in the kitty for all the other associated costs and upkeep. I think a 38 will be pushing the budget, and my ability somewhat.

This could be serendipitous Denali. morningbird will be a font of knowledge on this beauty. Just ask for his expert advice on every detail. I've recently acquired a cav32 and it fits the bill perfectly. The only other yacht I entertained buying was an S&S.
just my 2 cents worth. good luck with the hunt. welsh

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welsh said..
This could be serendipitous Denali. morningbird will be a font of knowledge on this beauty. Just ask for his expert advice on every detail. I've recently acquired a cav32 and it fits the bill perfectly.

I just missed out on a cav 32 actually. Congratulations.

I'm not that interested in the s&s, would prefer something local that I can go inspect easily, even if it means waiting longer and paying a bit more. Unfortunately I need to be realistic about my ability to take a yacht to sea.

Yes you definitely need something in the kitty for unexpected events which are always occurring on older boats.

The first one of these with my boat was that the stainless steel water tanks started leaking which necessitated removing them. Quite a job but I managed to coat them on the inside with epoxy rather than getting new ones made. New ones were quite pricey. You just can't predict this type of thing.

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Denali said..
Hi all. Long time reader of this forum whilst performing my search for a yacht.

My sailing background - Have sailed many dinghys, Sabots, Lasers, Sharpies and Herons mainly as a teenager, as well as some stints crewing on a keel yacht, however i'd still call my keel experience limited. I have next to no skippering experience on a keelboat.

I've been eyeing off purchasing my first keelboat, with the following uses in mind:
Twilight racing
Weekend/Overnights
Day cruising with family and friends.
I'm looking for something that can eventually be sailed shorthand after getting some more practise under my belt, ideally solo but also 2 handed. I figure around the 32 foot mark is ideal for size vs budget.

For those familiar with Hobart, I plan on eventually day tripping down the Derwent to South Arm/Kingston beach etc, and weekending down the Channel and Bruny island. We don't have kids (yet) however would like something that we can grow in to.

This boat has come up for sale in my local area, and it ticks most of my boxes, including having an enclosed head/shower for my partner. Looks like there are some improvements that could be done to make the interior a bit tidier, but i'm not afraid/inexperienced with DIY.
I'm not able to post the link yet, it's a northshore 33 available for sale on Gumtree in Hobart, should be easy to find. or you can paste this after .au/ in the gumtree URL. s-ad/bellerive/sail-boats/yacht-northshore-33/1306056275

I'm looking for any and all advice related to NS33's, especially common issues or things I should look out for when I first inspect it, as i'm feeling very overwhelmed by the whole process. I'd also welcome any advice relating to price range, as I feel this one is slightly high, based on the images.
I've estimated about 5 grand a year to berth it, and about 2 grand a year on insurance. Does that seem reasonable?
Survey estimate - $800-$1000

I've only sailed one once or twice but I've sailed against them a bit. They aren't particularly quick, being a bit short on initial stability in general although not dangerously or seriously so; their ultimate stability must be OK. They tend to fall between the lighter boats with more form stability (more beam, fuller and flatter stern sections, lead keels), and the heavier boats with more ballast.More your Laser Radial, in terms of comparative performance, than your Sharpie; not up there compared to (say) a Farr 1020 of similar age and LOA, or a Young 88 of similar age but shorter, but not really slow either.

For cruising, the enclosed head/shower is a huge benefit for many of us (and that's coming from someone who lived aboard without one for years). As far as I can remember, the standard layout had a big head/shower compartment beside the companionway to port, which is why the companionway is small and offset. Personally I didn't like that as it seemed like walking into a corridor, but as with so many things it's 100% down to the individual's taste.

Fractional rigs can be brilliant for shorthanding but with this layout one has to wonder how easily one could get to the mainsheet and traveller while driving. However, despite only having one set of spreaders NS33s and NS38s seem to have tough rigs; plenty of 38s have done Hobart without losing their sticks despite the fact that they are very big boats for a single swept spreader rig. It can't help them get upwind in a breeze but it's simple and cheap.

It's obviously your choice, but for $5k marina fees I'd just get a mooring and a nice dinghy. Sitting on a mooring can be much nicer than a marina.

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Denali said..

Unfortunately I need to be realistic about my ability to take a yacht to sea.

Good on you for knowing your limitations. I've known two people with your sort of background who decided to singlehand across the Strait. One made it at the end of a towline after sending off his EPIRB 70 miles out, the other's boat made it without him.

I've crossed the Strait four times (in Hobarts and on one return) and it's never been easy.

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Chris 249 said..
Sitting on a mooring can be much nicer than a marina.

Totally agree!!

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Chris 249 said..

It's obviously your choice, but for $5k marina fees I'd just get a mooring and a nice dinghy. Sitting on a mooring can be much nicer than a marina.

I can see that in the future too eventually. 5k was an simply an estimate. Will be nice to have in the pen for a little while, whilst we make any mods we want to and get used to it however.

Regarding your other comments, I'm not too concerned by the performance. More looking for something safe and fun for the family and casual racing for enjoyment. I quite like the layout too. The enclosed head was my partner's only condition, and she is trusting me on everything else, so it seems like a fair compromise to me.

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Bananabender said..

Ramona said..

Is that Morningbirds morningbird? Feels only been 12 months .

Yes it is.

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julesmoto said..
Seems you have the right idea about what to look at before you get a surveyor involved. Definitely take a small torch with you.
Don't be afraid to make a low offer but Northshore Yachts do command a bit of a premium because they were all factory built with internal liners that are bright and stand up to wear and tear well (as opposed to timber) plus good reputation for lack of osmosis.
Seems a bit higher than when I was looking a couple of years ago which I already thought was quite an expensive time but things like a new engine or sails, instruments or rig are quickly worth the money
You will of course get the NS premium back when you sell. I don't know what your budget is like but I thought the extra premium for the 38 was worth it over the 33. The 38 is truly a go anywhere boat.

There is a Northshore 33 over at Shoalhaven heads that was bought for $17,000 a couple of years ago. I saw it on the slips where it got a topsides repaint.

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Denali said..

Ramona said..,

I think it's overpriced.
Remember these are the initial asking prices. Tasmanian boats always seem to be over priced!

This is about right on my budget for a purchase, with some left in the kitty for all the other associated costs and upkeep. I think a 38 will be pushing the budget, and my ability somewhat.

If I was to pay that sort of money for an older boat it would have to have a lead keel at least. For Tasmanian waters I would want something a little more solid. The Northshore 33 is more the harbour racer/ Wednesday twilights/ business mans flat hideaway with secretary sort of boat.

Just to give you an idea as to the cost of replacing old with new on a yacht an acquaintance just spent $40,000 replacing the mast on a Northshore 38 worth about $70,000. Luckily it was a racing accident and was paid for by the other guys insurance. Add a motor and sails to that and you are over the total cost of a boat!
A Cole 31 on the mooring next to me (just purchased for 30000) has paid a rigger (who I have admittedly found to be a rip off) over 22,000 to renew the standing rigging although including a new furler.
Best to pay up for one in nice condition (within reason).

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julesmoto said..
Just to give you an idea as to the cost of replacing old with new on a yacht an acquaintance just spent $40,000 replacing the mast on a Northshore 38 worth about $70,000. Luckily it was a racing accident and was paid for by the other guys insurance. Add a motor and sails to that and you are over the total cost of a boat!
A Cole 31 on the mooring next to me (just purchased for 30000) has paid a rigger (who I have admittedly found to be a rip off) over 22,000 to renew the standing rigging although including a new furler.
Best to pay up for one in nice condition (within reason).

That's some good advice. I'm under the impression a lot of this has been done semi-recently, but the receipts will tell when I go to see it next week. I am hoping the standing rigging has been replaced in the last couple of years. The listing says "new rigging" so unsure if that is running or standing.

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Ramona said..

If I was to pay that sort of money for an older boat it would have to have a lead keel at least. For Tasmanian waters I would want something a little more solid. The Northshore 33 is more the harbour racer/ Wednesday twilights/ business mans flat hideaway with secretary sort of boat.

Do you have any gutfeel on the price just based on the listing that you could share? Good to help me calibrate. Seems to be on par price wise with other boats of a similar age, so i'm not sure if they are expensive or not? I tended to agree with your earlier post that it is a bit overprice, but i'm wondering where you think it should be?

I do believe it will spend the majority of it's time within the confines of the Derwent/D'entrecasteaux, doing twilights and casual cruising do you think it will suit for that type of use? I'm not really planning to sail too far at this stage, and trips will be well planned around the weather. I'm happy to cruise with the engine or sacrifice speed with a reef or two to maintain comfort too.

imgur.com/a/JJsbgnN The blue paths are probable cruising grounds to give you an idea.

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sparau said..
Some of this might be relevant for you when you are eyeballing it?
www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Marine%20Survey%20101.htm

Thanks for this i've had a read through and will print out the survey checklist. Very comprehensive.

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julesmoto said..
Just to give you an idea as to the cost of replacing old with new on a yacht an acquaintance just spent $40,000 replacing the mast on a Northshore 38 worth about $70,000. Luckily it was a racing accident and was paid for by the other guys insurance. Add a motor and sails to that and you are over the total cost of a boat!
A Cole 31 on the mooring next to me (just purchased for 30000) has paid a rigger (who I have admittedly found to be a rip off) over 22,000 to renew the standing rigging although including a new furler.
Best to pay up for one in nice condition (within reason).

I've already determined that large (>25ft+) sailboat ownership isn't for me until I have the opportunity to make it a life choice, in between $150+ p.w. to berth it and maintenance.
That said if I had to spend $40k on some extruded aluminium I would power it with kites or turn it into an artificial reef:p
Just in case anyone else is having apoplexies over such costs wouldn't sizing something appropriate from here be ok?
www.sailexchange.com.au/collections/masts-used
As to $22k for standing rigging I seem to remember ballparks of $500 per shroud if you remove them (one at a time :p ) and get a rigger to cut and swage a new one to match?

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sparau said..

julesmoto said..
Just to give you an idea as to the cost of replacing old with new on a yacht an acquaintance just spent $40,000 replacing the mast on a Northshore 38 worth about $70,000. Luckily it was a racing accident and was paid for by the other guys insurance. Add a motor and sails to that and you are over the total cost of a boat!
A Cole 31 on the mooring next to me (just purchased for 30000) has paid a rigger (who I have admittedly found to be a rip off) over 22,000 to renew the standing rigging although including a new furler.
Best to pay up for one in nice condition (within reason).

I've already determined that large (>25ft+) sailboat ownership isn't for me until I have the opportunity to make it a life choice, in between $150+ p.w. to berth it and maintenance.
That said if I had to spend $40k on some extruded aluminium I would power it with kites or turn it into an artificial reef:p
Just in case anyone else is having apoplexies over such costs wouldn't sizing something appropriate from here be ok?
www.sailexchange.com.au/collections/masts-used
As to $22k for standing rigging I seem to remember ballparks of $500 per shroud if you remove them (one at a time :p ) and get a rigger to cut and swage a new one to match?

Anything second-hand or DIY will definitely be way cheaper as most tradies servicing yachting have all the work they can handle and many are gouging like hell at the moment.
Still need a crane however to unstep/step a mast on most 30ft plus boats. Don't think Id like to use the standing rigging again on a second hand mast either.

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Denali said..

Ramona said..

Do you have any gutfeel on the price just based on the listing that you could share? Good to help me calibrate. Seems to be on par price wise with other boats of a similar age, so i'm not sure if they are expensive or not? I tended to agree with your earlier post that it is a bit overprice, but i'm wondering where you think it should be?

I do believe it will spend the majority of it's time within the confines of the Derwent/D'entrecasteaux, doing twilights and casual cruising do you think it will suit for that type of use? I'm not really planning to sail too far at this stage, and trips will be well planned around the weather. I'm happy to cruise with the engine or sacrifice speed with a reef or two to maintain comfort too.

imgur.com/a/JJsbgnN The blue paths are probable cruising grounds to give you an idea.

I just looked at the interior shots and thought it was a bit rough for yachts in that price range. The gas camping stove and the old Volvo did not help either. There are several Northshore 33's on Yachthub and "Midnight Express" is priced right. Just remember these are starting prices, they will sell for less.
If I was to buy a yacht in Tasmania and use it the same as you intend I would take a look at this Davidson.

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-34-davidson-34-successful-cruiser-racer/283446

These are large boats inside and this one has swept back spreaders so no runners! The only downside is the draft is a little deep but the keel is lead. The head is a little exposed and might not suit the boss. The Northshore has the advantage there with the large head compartment which gives that full privacy for the secretaries!

Fwiw l just paid 3k for new standing rigging on my Bluewater 290 (29 foot version of an Adams 28). That includes the inner forestay and running backstays and labour. That didn't include crane hire.

Racv gave me insurance for 1100 per year.

Good luck and have fun.

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Ramona said..

I just looked at the interior shots and thought it was a bit rough for yachts in that price range. The gas camping stove and the old Volvo did not help either. There are several Northshore 33's on Yachthub and "Midnight Express" is priced right. Just remember these are starting prices, they will sell for less.

I tended to agree on the camping stove and quality of the shots in general. Do you have a figure to help guide me, working with the information you (and i) have, understanding that inspecting it in person will uncover more info? Trying to get a range from experienced yachties to help calibrate my range. I was already planning to knock some off for the camping stove and home job replacement.

Can you share anything specific to look out for when looking at engines before getting a professional surveyor involved? I'm relatively ok with engines in general, however have no expeirence with marine diesels. Was planning to look out for fluid leaks, smells/oil and loose clamps/issues with any hosing.

You're also the second person to link me the davidson, I think i'll go take a look whilst i'm on leave. However the primary use is intended to be cruising and social, then twilight racing so you hit the nail on the head RE: enclosed head. The general lack of lining and creature comforts doesn't bother me, but I think it will be lacking for the boss.

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Ramona said..

Denali said..

Ramona said..

Do you have any gutfeel on the price just based on the listing that you could share? Good to help me calibrate. Seems to be on par price wise with other boats of a similar age, so i'm not sure if they are expensive or not? I tended to agree with your earlier post that it is a bit overprice, but i'm wondering where you think it should be?

I do believe it will spend the majority of it's time within the confines of the Derwent/D'entrecasteaux, doing twilights and casual cruising do you think it will suit for that type of use? I'm not really planning to sail too far at this stage, and trips will be well planned around the weather. I'm happy to cruise with the engine or sacrifice speed with a reef or two to maintain comfort too.

imgur.com/a/JJsbgnN The blue paths are probable cruising grounds to give you an idea.

I just looked at the interior shots and thought it was a bit rough for yachts in that price range. The gas camping stove and the old Volvo did not help either. There are several Northshore 33's on Yachthub and "Midnight Express" is priced right. Just remember these are starting prices, they will sell for less.
If I was to buy a yacht in Tasmania and use it the same as you intend I would take a look at this Davidson.

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-34-davidson-34-successful-cruiser-racer/283446

These are large boats inside and this one has swept back spreaders so no runners! The only downside is the draft is a little deep but the keel is lead. The head is a little exposed and might not suit the boss. The Northshore has the advantage there with the large head compartment which gives that full privacy for the secretaries!

Just out of interest do you know if that Davidson has a foam core hull or is it just the deck? Wouldn't touch a foam core hull. A lead keel would be nice but not at the expense of a foam core hull.

It just doesn't look pretty on the inside and it would be a hard sell to the wife if compared with a North Shore. The deteriorated internal timber is a turn off even if it can be fixed with a bit of work. I guess this is reflected in the price.

You really should join Facebook. Invent a fake name. Don't make your email public and use some avatar or picture of your dog. Then you can join the very good Facebook sites that are available for pretty much every popular brand of yacht as well as interest groups such as second hand yachting items, single handed sailors... You can even ask on the group if anyone has a Northshore 33 for sale in Tasmania and could possibly even complete a deal without the boat ever being advertised.

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julesmoto said..

Just out of interest do you know if that Davidson has a foam core hull or is it just the deck? Wouldn't touch a foam core hull. A lead keel would be nice but not at the expense of a foam core hull.

It just doesn't look pretty on the inside and it would be a hard sell to the wife if compared with a North Shore. The deteriorated internal timber is a turn off even if it can be fixed with a bit of work. I guess this is reflected in the price.

You really should join Facebook. Invent a fake name. Don't make your email public and use some avatar or picture of your dog. Then you can join the very good Facebook sites that are available for pretty much every popular brand of yacht as well as interest groups such as second hand yachting items, single handed sailors... You can even ask on the group if anyone has a Northshore 33 for sale in Tasmania and could possibly even complete a deal without the boat ever being advertised.

I'll consider facebook. Been many years since I was on there. FYI i'm not specifically looking for a Northshore 33, it's just the first thing since a recent cav 32 that has caught my eye. Boat market is somewhat slow here at the moment it seems.

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julesmoto said..

Just out of interest do you know if that Davidson has a foam core hull or is it just the deck? Wouldn't touch a foam core hull. A lead keel would be nice but not at the expense of a foam core hull.

It just doesn't look pretty on the inside and it would be a hard sell to the wife if compared with a North Shore. The deteriorated internal timber is a turn off even if it can be fixed with a bit of work. I guess this is reflected in the price.

You really should join Facebook. Invent a fake name. Don't make your email public and use some avatar or picture of your dog. Then you can join the very good Facebook sites that are available for pretty much every popular brand of yacht as well as interest groups such as second hand yachting items, single handed sailors... You can even ask on the group if anyone has a Northshore 33 for sale in Tasmania and could possibly even complete a deal without the boat ever being advertised.

It's a Ken Jago built boat. He knows what he is doing. It is a foam core hull but would be solid in all the right places.