I'm seriously considering buying a swing keel B30 that doesn't have a trailer. It's currently in the Gippsland Lakes (Paynesville) and I live in Hervey Bay, QLD. The ballpark figure for road transport to Brisbane is $6600 plus cost of lift at each end. (I can easily sail it from Brisbane) At that cost, I'm wondering about the economics of buying/borrowing/hiring someone's B30 trailer and towing it! Does anyone think they can help me out?
I'm guessing a new trailer would be about $15,000??? Second hand... is a trailer for the B30 specialised or is it standard with adjustable supports? I was originally planning on leaving her in the marina, but if I have a trailer I could leave it in the dry storage, so that's a bonus and long term cost saving (but not as convenient).

Of course, all this hassle could be ignored if someone has a decent B30 for sale in QLD!

PS: Does anyone know how long the trailer for a B30 is?

This might be worth looking at Alan, appears to be in Brisbane?
noelex.org.au/2021/04/01/for-sale-noelex-30-1586-45000/

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shaggybaxter said..
This might be worth looking at Alan, appears to be in Brisbane?
noelex.org.au/2021/04/01/for-sale-noelex-30-1586-45000/

Somewhat out of my original budget, but looks like a pretty good buy.... Good enough to consider extending my budget! My brain is starting to work overtime! Damn - I was looking at the wrong boat - a 25! Not much detail on the 30, and up there in price.

Might be good idea to go to this site and start asking.
From memory you can have up to three metres overhang.
www.trailersailerplace.com.au

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alanfw said..

I'm guessing a new trailer would be about $15,000??? Second hand... is a trailer for the B30 specialised or is it standard with adjustable supports? I was originally planning on leaving her in the marina, but if I have a trailer I could leave it in the dry storage, so that's a bonus and long term cost saving (but not as convenient).

The trailer is the major cost component, and biggest source of trouble for a trailer-sailer. Trailers for trailer-sailers are bespoke items, unlike trailers for tinnies and stink-boats. The probability of finding a decent, used trailer is close to zero. Getting a new trailer for a B30 will not be impossible, but it will be a mission. Getting a new trailer for a smaller boat (say a NX25) will put you back about $15K to $20K. For a B30, I'd budget for about $30K. If it is road-worthy (and there is no point in doing it, if it is not) it will probably need triple-axles and will definitely need specialist braking systems and a power winch to retrieve the boat. Then, you'll need to think of the tow vehicle, and the conditions for towing and storing an over-sized trailer (e.g. you cannot park it on a residential street for more than 1 hour).

It can be done, just be aware of what you are getting into before you start.

It is in Victoria so 30 plus for street legal trailer then you need comply in each state with different trailer rules and towing tines
Just truck it
btw the way a once legal nay not be legal now

Hi Alan, I recently purchased a B30 fixed keel, then had to sail it just over 100km to its new home, I completed this within daylight hours.
My experience was raising and lowering the mast (to get under bridges) was quite a painful process which I won't be doing again.
They sail very well and quite fast for their size, as an alternative, for road transport, I would look for someone with a noelex for sale and make them an offer to hire their trailer, IMHO finding the right size trailer will be all but impossible, they do come up for sale quite often, so it might be worth leaving the yacht where it is, and then waiting until you can acquire a trailer.
Alternatively, hiring the a large flat bed trailer and building a disposable temporary support cradle from wooden beams that would sit on top and strapped into place could be another alternative, you could build a wooden frame to hold the yacht and once out the water put in the additional supports to secure it.

You might not need a flat bed that was full length, my previous trailer sailers only sat on the trailer just passed the keel and the stern hanged out the back, not sure if that would be legal, but a 6m flatbed car trailer might be enough.

Thanks for the input - it pretty much confirmed my thinking, but I thought a new trailer would be about $15k. Looks like my budget is about to be extended out by $10k to buy a Qld boat!

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alanfw said..
Thanks for the input - it pretty much confirmed my thinking, but I thought a new trailer would be about $15k. Looks like my budget is about to be extended out by $10k to buy a Qld boat!

You live in a beautiful part of the world, so if you get a Qld boat at least getting it home becomes a joy instead of a headache .
Its a nice sail up to Hervey Bay, and the weather looks nice for deliveries!

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shaggybaxter said..

alanfw said..
Thanks for the input - it pretty much confirmed my thinking, but I thought a new trailer would be about $15k. Looks like my budget is about to be extended out by $10k to buy a Qld boat!

You live in a beautiful part of the world, so if you get a Qld boat at least getting it home becomes a joy instead of a headache .
Its a nice sail up to Hervey Bay, and the weather looks nice for deliveries!

I agree! I briefly contemplated sailing up from Victoria... But at this time of year I wouldn't trust the weather! (Not to mention zero experience in the boat in question, and limited open ocean sailing experience)

If there's a Noelex 30 available for anything like the same price and condition, buy it instead. Having sailed both I'd reckon the Noelex has it over its hull sister in every way - better finish, probably better construction, much better keel setup, much better rudder, much better rig, much better performance.

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Chris 249 said..
If there's a Noelex 30 available for anything like the same price and condition, buy it instead. Having sailed both I'd reckon the Noelex has it over its hull sister in every way - better finish, probably better construction, much better keel setup, much better rudder, much better rig, much better performance.

The B30 I'm looking at appears to be in good condition and is $17,000 cheaper than the cheapest Noelex I've seen! Even after paying for transport it's still a lot cheaper, but marginal enough to make the Noelex worth considering.

Do you really need such a big trailer sailer. I used to single handed sail a Cavalier 30 fixed keeler off a swing mooring in Syd harbour but that was around 15yrs ago and wouldn't dream of doing that now being 67. You are probably a lot fitter. See here an alternative......I have nothing to do with this boat just know they are top shelf.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ormiston/sail-boats/castle-650-trailer-sailor/1274547684

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r13 said..
I have nothing to do with this boat just know they are top shelf.
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ormiston/sail-boats/castle-650-trailer-sailor/1274547684

Single axle trailer too.

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r13 said..
Do you really need such a big trailer sailer. I used to single handed sail a Cavalier 30 fixed keeler off a swing mooring in Syd harbour but that was around 15yrs ago and wouldn't dream of doing that now being 67. You are probably a lot fitter. See here an alternative......I have nothing to do with this boat just know they are top shelf.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ormiston/sail-boats/castle-650-trailer-sailor/1274547684

I gave a friend a hand to launch and recover a Cole 23 a few weeks ago. Probably 15 years since I launched and rigged a trailer sailer and I had forgotten what a pain in the arse they are. At just shy of 73 I find operating a 34 footer off a mooring and sailing offshore a bit of a doddle. I figure I have at least 15 more years in me.
I raced a trailer sailer for one season against 3 Castle 650's. They are definitely a class boat and seemed more of a mini yacht than the 26 foot trailer sailors racing that always appeared to be too narrow and tender. The maximum allowable beam of 8' 2" at the time seemed to be ideal for 21 to 22-foot boats.
I'm biased I know but I would not go larger than 23 foot for a trailer sailer with a swing keel. The maintenance on servicing a swing keel on a 30-foot boat must be the main reason they are often on the market so cheap.

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Ramona said..

The maximum allowable beam of 8' 2" at the time seemed to be ideal for 21 to 22-foot boats.
I'm biased I know but I would not go larger than 23 foot for a trailer sailer with a swing keel.

+1. Having owned an Austral 20, I'd agree that the sweet spot for trailer sailers is about 20 ft. That's why I like the concept of the new Cygnet 20.

Incidentally, there is a Cygnet 20 on show at the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show. Good build quality, easy rig, porta-potti and cramped cabin (which is what you'd expect from a 20ft trailer sailer).

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r13 said..
Do you really need such a big trailer sailer. I used to single handed sail a Cavalier 30 fixed keeler off a swing mooring in Syd harbour but that was around 15yrs ago and wouldn't dream of doing that now being 67. You are probably a lot fitter. See here an alternative......I have nothing to do with this boat just know they are top shelf.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ormiston/sail-boats/castle-650-trailer-sailor/1274547684

More than a trailer sailer, I want a boat that will comfortable to cruise in for weeks or even months at a time. For that reason, a keel boat is also on my radar. But a trailer sailer (or more accurately, a lift-keel yacht) provides some advantages not offered by a keel boat (access to shallow water, can easily be pulled out and stored out of the water on a trailer).

Found this today: www.ebay.com.au/itm/143229173548?hash=item21591fbf2c:g:LdIAAOSwBlxcwqK1
Is there any reason this wouldn't take a Noelex or B30?

Looks like a possibility but the manufacturer would need to certify it in accordance with the below plus any other state regulations. A suitably qualified and experienced person would need to do the certifying.

www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx

www.boattrailerrepairs.com.au/safety-certificates-inspections

The Noelex has the bulb foot on the lift keel so the trailer cross members and rollers would need to clear that. Assume there would be a suitable landing for the underside of the bulb. For both boats the cross members and rollers would need to be set up to support the hull shape in the normal manner. The manufacturer would need to do this I assume, in conjunction with the certifying process.

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alanfw said..
Found this today: www.ebay.com.au/itm/143229173548?hash=item21591fbf2c:g:LdIAAOSwBlxcwqK1
Is there any reason this wouldn't take a Noelex or B30?

You'd need to modify it to make it fit. That trailer is designed for flat hulls with chines, like you would find on an oversized tinny. Sailing boats are much more rounded. You might need wobble-rollers, maybe bunks. Make sure that the rollers and/or bunks are located where they would not put a dent in the hull. It looks like you also need a breakaway braking system and/or hydraulic brakes.

Its got the brakes.

Why not call and discuss

It is a manufacturers add so they should be able to quote a trailer to your spec.
www.spitfire-trailers-victoria.com.au/
www.facebook.com/spitfiretrailersvictoria/

Assume you are looking at the Vic ones as they are closer to the B30. You did ask the broker about a trailer? You could also ask the broker about purchase contingent on delivery to Bris. They must have better access to freight than you would, never know if you don't ask.

Yes the trailer rollers etc need to be suitably located under transverse bulkheads as well as longitudinal hull stiffening so as to not damage the hull.

Assume you have gone all over this site;

noelex.org.au/navigate/n30-retractable-keel-maintenance/

A rare photo of a N30 on its trailer is here. 1'7" minimum draft due to the bulb.

www.inautia.com/used-boat-31891082015061005254564810051514.html

Also here including photo of bulb when on trailer; have you seen this one which seems to be still for sale? $45k incl trailer. Needs a "tidy up..."

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1984-noelex-30/SSE-AD-5792958/?Cr=0

This reminds me yet again there appears to be a consistent demand for a boat haulage service that is more affordable for small(ish) boats.
The problem with giving it a go as a business is that the transit distances in Aus are all measured in bloody days.

If you just nip down to Melbourne from Brisbane and haul a boat back. Say you did it sensibly, call it 6 days. Then the money quoted doesn't seem so obscene. Fuel, time, meals, accommodation, lease payments on a decent modular trailer, tow vehicle.
You'd almost need a guaranteed return haul every trip to make it worthwhile, especially to meet a goal in offering a cheaper service.

You can get to Scotland from London in a day, whilst passing an awful lot of people for drumming up a potential haul on the return trip.
We're kinda cursed by the same things we love about this place.

It would be interesting to know if the current small boat haulage companies use their own prime movers. To keep costs down general and express road operators (even the likes of Toll)usually own their own trailers but use specialist prime mover transport coys. to haul the trailer to its destination. Its up to the prime mover operator who deal with multiple coys. to find a return job for the driver and prime mover . The only time transport coys. have their own prime movers is for short trips ,say Melb.to Syd or Bne to Syd where they change over the trailers midway and the driver is back in his own bed each day. Generally the only difference between express freight and general freight is that for general the trailer does not leave until it is full. Boat haulage brings up that dreaded term 'over width' . For smaller yachts I guess one could look at designing a frame that enables the boat to be tilted to to get under max. width allowed. Whats this got to do with the B 30 again ?You've led me up the garden path again shaggy I sold my Tsp.Coy. long long time ago.

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alanfw said..
More than a trailer sailer, I want a boat that will comfortable to cruise in for weeks or even months at a time. For that reason, a keel boat is also on my radar.

That dictates a fixed keel yacht. The advantages of shallow draught are over rated.
You could go with a Noelex 25 or 30 or a B30 but they will require a big truck to tow it and of course trailer.
Such a sized trailer yacht will not be a single handed rig/derig or launch/retieve exercise.
So yes a trailer sailer can be trailed to a storage place but how far is the storage place from the launch place and do you own the storage place???? How often will you go sailing???

I have cruised the Great Sandy Straits on a 13 m long, 2.2 m draught yacht and a 9.2 m long 1.7 m draught without problems.

I think you need to crystalize your thinking!!

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r13 said..
Yes the trailer rollers etc need to be suitably located under transverse bulkheads as well as longitudinal hull stiffening so as to not damage the hull.

Assume you have gone all over this site;

noelex.org.au/navigate/n30-retractable-keel-maintenance/

A rare photo of a N30 on its trailer is here. 1'7" minimum draft due to the bulb.

www.inautia.com/used-boat-31891082015061005254564810051514.html

Also here including photo of bulb when on trailer; have you seen this one which seems to be still for sale? $45k incl trailer. Needs a "tidy up..."

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1984-noelex-30/SSE-AD-5792958/?Cr=0

Damn that's a big rig. No wonder they are always hiding in sheds!

I've launched and retrieved a B30 a few times. It's not easy in a side breeze, but if you had a pole on the side/s of the trailer like many powerboats do, to stop the boat from drifting off sideways, it wouldn't be all that much of an issue.

Depending on how you tweak the gear, even a Noelex 30 mast could be stepped by one person.

In some places and for some uses, shoal draft can be irrelevant and in other places and uses it's a huge advantage. I'm once again considering converting the 28'er I'm restoring to shoal draft because in northern NSW it could make a significant difference for cruising and storage.

Even if the launch and retrieve do take a few hours, if you have a suitable tow vehicle then pulling a boat from Vic to Qld and back is a much easier and faster way to get to great cruising grounds than sailing around. Over-size tows are restricted but pulling my 28' keelboat from the south coast to northern inland NSW was surprisingly easy, although it's only 8'6 and has the advantage of sitting up on the keel so you get much better visibility.

If you are not trailering regularly you don't need to own a tow car; just hire a mine-spec ute for a day to take it home for refits or during periods when you are not using it regularly. Towing a B30 from Sydney to Mackay in the old days there were some very narrow clearances on the bridges in northern NSW but I think Kempsey is the only narrow one left.

The RL 28 has full standing headroom yet still towable without restriction. Setting up is doable solo.

A group from Victoria recently towed their Noelex 25s, Seaway 25 and RL 28 to QLD and did a the goldcoast,moreton bay brisbane mooloolaba and the the Sandy Straights.

Last year it was tassie. In a couple of weeks Refuge Cove. Christmas was two weeks on the Gippsland lakes.

Nothing beats the versatility of a trail able yacht.

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Chris 249 said..
I've launched and retrieved a B30 a few times. It's not easy in a side breeze, but if you had a pole on the side/s of the trailer like many powerboats do, to stop the boat from drifting off sideways, it wouldn't be all that much of an issue.

Depending on how you tweak the gear, even a Noelex 30 mast could be stepped by one person.

In some places and for some uses, shoal draft can be irrelevant and in other places and uses it's a huge advantage. I'm once again considering converting the 28'er I'm restoring to shoal draft because in northern NSW it could make a significant difference for cruising and storage.

Even if the launch and retrieve do take a few hours, if you have a suitable tow vehicle then pulling a boat from Vic to Qld and back is a much easier and faster way to get to great cruising grounds than sailing around. Over-size tows are restricted but pulling my 28' keelboat from the south coast to northern inland NSW was surprisingly easy, although it's only 8'6 and has the advantage of sitting up on the keel so you get much better visibility.

If you are not trailering regularly you don't need to own a tow car; just hire a mine-spec ute for a day to take it home for refits or during periods when you are not using it regularly. Towing a B30 from Sydney to Mackay in the old days there were some very narrow clearances on the bridges in northern NSW but I think Kempsey is the only narrow one left.

The pacific motor way is complete, no single lane or narrow duel lane bridges to negotiate. Coffs is the only hang up, traffic lights etc but it is duel lane.

Do you really need the 30'?

we have a Seaway 25 a lot more yacht than tser and spend weeks on board with 3 4 or 5. Pre Covid we went from Cairns down to Sydney where we lived aboard and did Pittwater then Sydney Harbour over December and January for NYE etc. total of 1 month with travel 4 onboard.

Boat and caravan is such fantastic combination. I can easily setup and launch solo in 40mins same for derig. Electric trailer winch pulls the mast up. Trailer has the modern catcher style tilt rear rollers so even side breezes are doable. People who say it's too hard aren't doing it right. Last year I had a lady come up to me after launching and said "I'd still be married if my husband had of launched our boat like you instead of screaming at us!" ????