Hi

I'd be grateful for some tips on the right direction ......

i over-nighted at Horseshoe Bay, Moreton Bay last night. Motored in to set the anchor, all good (after a few attempts back and forth, back and forth). No issues with the engine at all.

Isolated (is that the right term ?) the starter battery over-night. This morning the gauge said the starter battery and the house batteries were all fully charged.

When I went to start the engine, it made that "beep" sound, but not very strongly, but didn't do much else - no start. I stared at it for a while but that didn't help much. Gave it another go, and another weak beep. Stared again, and turned everything off, and tried again, and this time it managed to tick over, but only just. I was away.

Motored back to Manly with no problems, but the rev meter seemed to waiver by a couple of hundred revs for the 1st hour or so. After that, it was solid.

Got back to Manly (phew) and tried to start the engine again - no go. This time no beep noise at all, but a few clicks. Gauge said the batteries were sill all fully charged.

The engine and the electrics were both professionally checked in the last 3 months. The engine is a kubota beta 13hp, less than 400 hours, new in 2012.

Any tips on what I should be looking (staring) at ?? (Feel free to talk to me like I don't know anything about engines or electrics ..... )

Cheers

Keelkicker

First step is to get a multimeter and measure the resting voltage of your batteries.

Your description of the symptoms says "Bad charging circuit" to me, which only makes sense if your gauge is not reading correctly.

Check:
Battery terminals (pull off, clean surfaces, put back on)
Wiring between battery and starter (pull off, clean surfaces, put back on)
Isolation switch terminals
Resting voltage of battery using multimeter



From the sounds of it you have a dry joint at or after the isolation switch.

If the batteries are charged and all you get is a click it sounds like there is a bad connection somewhere. Check:

-battery leads are not corroded and are tight
-the lead to the starter is not corroded and is tight at both ends
-the connections on your switch/push button or whatever starts it are not corroded and are tight.

Call a sparkie.

Sounds like your gauges probably read the voltage at the battery terminals and make an "charge level" estimate from there.
A poor connection will still allow a decent voltage to be read but it won't allow a decent current to be drawn so I'd guess a poor connection somewhere.

Check and clean all connections as advised by nebbian and morningbird and I reckon the problem will be solved.

In addition to checking all the wiring terminations and cleaning them:
There is a big difference between what voltage is indicated when putting a multimeter across a battery and what the capacity of the battery is.
As zilla says, 12v is 12v - but doesn't indicate how much "oommmphh" it has - capacity.
A small 12v motorcycle battery will indicate 12v, but won't start a large car engine.

Maybe the battery is cactus and didn't have enough capacity to heat your glow plugs (if you have them) or turn the engine over.

Motoring as you did back to base should've at least partially charged it up again, so the battery charging system may need checking to be sure it is ok before buying a new battery - if you need one that is.

Next time you get the motor running, stick a multimeter across the battery terminals. You should read 13.8v (charging) with minimal load on it. Turn engine off and you should read about 12.6v with no load on it.

Everybody has the same response. Is that a first for Seabreeze?

heelkicker, here's my take on it.
Assuming you've got a multimeter (if you don't, you really should get one - $15 one will do). Stick the multimeter (set to measure Volts DC) probe points (doesn't matter which probe is connected to which terminal post) directly on the actual +Ve and -Ve terminal posts of the battery NOT on the connectors attached to the terminal posts, but the ACTUAL posts themselves.
You will probably need another person to do this,while you do the next bit.

Now note the battery reading on the multimeter - should be above, say, 12.5 Volts.
Now attempt to start the engine, noting the battery voltage during this.
It should not drop below, say, 11.5 Volts while you are attempting to start the engine.

If the battery volts drop below 11.5 Volts you have a flat battery for some reason.
If the battery volts stay above say, 12 Volts, you have a poor electrical connection between one of the terminal posts and the starter motor - this includes the connnectors attached to either of the terminal posts - or you have a problem with the starter motor.

See how you go & lets know what happens....
regards,
Allan

clean your battery posts and your terminals for a start pun intended

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HG02 said...
clean your battery posts and your terminals for a start pun intended

:-)

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HG02 said..
clean your battery posts and your terminals for a start pun intended

+1

Have you resolved the problem or was it terminal ?

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Libran said..
Have you resolved the problem or was it terminal ?

+1

I had a fluctuating RPM meter and it was due to a bad negative connection. My engine wiring has a main Negative cable the connects between the battery and the engine block. It is important that you check this as well. It also has another earth in the control wire harness. This is where I found the bad connection. There was a multi-pin plug that was I need of some cleaning and love.

Also the fact that you got your engine going in the end just by turning the Isolator OFF and then ON, suggests that the ISOLATIOR may have bad internal connections. When I brought my boat I found some loose connections in the isolator. Good luck

hi all

many thanks for the tips. i will head down to the boat tomorrow armed with my new multimeter ($10.50 from Masters - bargain!) and see what i can see......

the battery was new in 2012 and the terminals look clean, at least to me.

(datawiz, thanks for the simple descriptions, very helpful for the clueless !)

Now make sure the starter motor terminals, particularly the large one is also clean. Undo the earth strap to the engine and ensure that is clean as well. The gauges might indicate full voltage but it's amps your short off when cranking that engine. The earth strap might look clean but still be rubbish. Check continuity.

+1 Ramona
So you've got two batteries heelkicker.....?
regards,
allan

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Libran said..
Have you resolved the problem or was it terminal ?

It sounds like the issue is remains current

hi ramona / datawiz

when you say "undo the earth strap to the engine", can i assume i will know what that is when i see it ?? i've got the beta kubota maintenance manual but a more useless read (for me at least) is hard to imagine.

the starter battery pictured is on a separate circuit (?) to two big house batteries.

i will keep you posted !

KK

Just follow all the cables and clean them as you go , just disconnect all the batteries first . As mentioned before it could be battery isolator. Mine had a loose connection , the radio and lights would work but when you hit the starter it would all stop . Clean one connection at a time and put it back before moving on , even if you find one that you think was the problem keep going till the end ,reconnect your batteries turn the isolator to the start battery , turn the key . your boat will thank you for it and more importantly your learning how it all goes together , for the next time . Do both the positive (red) and negative ( black ) cables . Let us know how you get on we are all waiting on the outcome

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keelkicker said..
hi all

many thanks for the tips. i will head down to the boat tomorrow armed with my new multimeter ($10.50 from Masters - bargain!) and see what i can see......

the battery was new in 2012 and the terminals look clean, at least to me.

(datawiz, thanks for the simple descriptions, very helpful for the clueless !)

I personally would be cleaning those terminals in the above photo and also trim the shrink wrap so it dose not interfere with the wing nuts
Buy your self some emery tape and clean those bad boys.
On your engine you should be able to find the starter motor and the battery lead connected to the solenoid on the starter motor that lead would be around the same size as the earth lead attached to the motor
Follow old boy racers advice he's on the money
old boy racer said
Just follow all the cables and clean them as you go , just disconnect all the batteries first . As mentioned before it could be battery isolator. Mine had a loose connection , the radio and lights would work but when you hit the starter it would all stop . Clean one connection at a time and put it back before moving on , even if you find one that you think was the problem keep going till the end ,reconnect your batteries turn the isolator to the start battery , turn the key . your boat will thank you for it and more importantly your learning how it all goes together , for the next time . Do both the positive (red) and negative ( black ) cables . Let us know how you get on we are all waiting on the outcome

After you have cleaned your terminals smear them with Vaseline before reconnecting them.

Update:

So, i went back to the boat armed with the mulitmeter and a brave heart.

The starter battery seemed fine - 13.3 on the meter (i had the dial thing on the DCV section on the 20 setting) - cleaned everything anyway. I had a fiddle with the connection to the starter motor (it seemed to be encased in its own little waterproof envelope) and the motor started for me. I re-started 4 or 5 times and all seemed ok.

Here's the rub though. My electrician showed up later in the day, and he started it 3 or 4 times no issues, but then just got the click that i got. He has now fitted a start relay to take load from ignition switch and wiring, and started it 20 times no issue so I'm hoping all is now well !

Thanks again for the assistance

KK

Good news kk

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Datawiz said..
Good news kk

thumbs up
If you have any more problems replace the ignition switch later on

I had a Toyota HI Ace van with a diesel engine. Now and again, trying to start it after a run the starter motor would just
click. I was told that the starter had got too hot and the solution was to pour cold water on it. I carried a bottle of water
in the van because it worked every time.

@samsturdy - OMG, but if it worked!!

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SydneyJohn said..
@samsturdy - OMG, but if it worked!!

Not quite sure what you are saying here SJ.

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keelkicker said..

Here's the rub though. My electrician showed up later in the day, and he started it 3 or 4 times no issues, but then just got the click that i got. He has now fitted a start relay to take load from ignition switch and wiring, and started it 20 times no issue so I'm hoping all is now well !

I don't quite understand that. The current from the start button goes to the solenoid (relay) on the start motor which then makes the connection for the heavy cables.

Where has he fitted the extra start relay and why was it needed??

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cisco said..

keelkicker said..

Here's the rub though. My electrician showed up later in the day, and he started it 3 or 4 times no issues, but then just got the click that i got. He has now fitted a start relay to take load from ignition switch and wiring, and started it 20 times no issue so I'm hoping all is now well !

I don't quite understand that. The current from the start button goes to the solenoid (relay) on the start motor which then makes the connection for the heavy cables.

Where has he fitted the extra start relay and why was it needed??

I'm with you Cisco.
There needs to be two separate circuits involved:

1) Control circuit including the key switch and associated light duty wiring who's job is to pull in or energise the start relay. Not much current flows through this circuit.
2) The power circuit which consists of the start relay and associated heavy duty wiring which supplies power to the starter motor from the batteries. Very high current flows through this circuit.

keelkicker - are you suggesting the start circuit didn't have a start relay until the sparkie fitted one?

Id say so
It would realy depend on the starter soleniod what it draws
For me K.I.S.S if you can
Keep it simple stupid

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samsturdy said..

SydneyJohn said..
@samsturdy - OMG, but if it worked!!

Not quite sure what you are saying here SJ.

@samsturdy - Was just saying pouring water to cool a motor is quite extreme, and a little odd!