Well no one has ever called me gross being semi naked before!
Good idea yes someone should be on deck at all times on watch freezing there gonads of staring out into the black obsess . Seriously mate a watch offshore only states your on comand and you need to scan the horozin every 20 minutes for trafic. Unless your sailing into or out of a storm I don't ask any more than that. And my rule on night watches is that you don't leave the cockpit without a harness and PDF , I'm sorry if it sounded like my seamanship sounded a little sloppy. Whoops

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frant said..

southace said..
That does not look comfortable frant what is that thing around your neck a airbag? I will be relaxed semi naked on my leather lounge while watching the latest DVDs and checking channel 4 every 10 mins with a coarce up,radar and AIS overlay. As long with 20 min visuals. I do not oppose to anyone that requires a PFD its personal choice or at the direction of the skipper! And pubic hairs ? Wtf please that is gross !

And the thought of you semi naked isn't gross??WTF.
And yes if you choose to consume a moderate quantity of alcohol and reckon you can maintain an adequate watch picking your head up through the companway hatch every 20 minutes I think you should keep that to yourself and not try to influence newcomers to bad practice. You display a total disregard to good seamanship or have never actually had other peoples lives in your custody. At night everybody wears a PFD and Spinlock with integrated harness are the only ones I will permit. Everybody must clip on from down below before egressing the companionway hatch. Seriously if you think you can maintain an adequate watch in the coastal fishing zones by picking your head up every 20 min you will come a cropper. How many fishing boats broadcast AIS? How many are visible to your radar? How many fishing boats maintain a watch when working? You really should try not to spread bad practice as the norm.

Southace, that is exactly where I envisioned mounting my chartplotter, but reading the installation manual... before the springs started popping out of my head, it says that it shouldn't be closer than 3 feet to your magnetic compass. I dont' see your compass, but mine is right behind the helm... kind of below where your plotter is. Also, I picked up good habits from my brother who insisted on all wearing pfd's whenever upstairs. (unless sunbaking out front in a dead calm..lol)

yes to have a dual set up inside at the nav station or similar would be perfect . to be able to sit inside and plot a course while at anchor for the next day .

in some ways it may be better to have two or three stand alone systems in case of failure of one unit .

as a minimum a portable GPS unit as a backup for overnight passage .

it says that it shouldn't be closer than 3 feet to your magnetic compass.

McNaught , i was concerned about that too . But installed it anyway, as there was not much alternative. its sitting on 20mm thick timber about 300mm max above the compass.
both plotter and compass work a treat , its been four years .

Each to their own, but I like having a plotter at the helm, particularly at night. AIS on display so you can easily identify traffic (type, speed, course etc). Radar with MAPRA is great for non AIS equipped traffic. The radar overlay on the chart is a good quick confidence booster in the relative accuracy of the chart and position. With depth perception lacking at night, the plotter at the helm is almost vital into an unfamiliar port. How many commercial ships have their plotter in a back room off the bridge?

I like to keep a constant watch on deck and found on our recent delivery that an ipad with inavx under the dodger was also great. We have a Vespa AIS that has built in wifi and so AIS traffic displays on the ipad. Wind and tridata instruments are also forward above the companionway. On watch, I could tuck up under the dodger in foul weather and be very comfortable. Just a quick look at the radar on the plotter at the helm every 20mins or so was all that was needed.

Our nav station has no instruments at present. A setup like Frant's would be excellent, and I can see why he likes it so much.

The big issue is how fast technology is moving. Raymarine etc have suffered big sales declines over recent years with the rise of the ipad and tablet apps. My view is they are struggling to keep up with how quickly technology moves.

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frant said..

southace said..
That does not look comfortable frant what is that thing around your neck a airbag? I will be relaxed semi naked on my leather lounge while watching the latest DVDs and checking channel 4 every 10 mins with a coarce up,radar and AIS overlay. As long with 20 min visuals. I do not oppose to anyone that requires a PFD its personal choice or at the direction of the skipper! And pubic hairs ? Wtf please that is gross !

And the thought of you semi naked isn't gross??WTF.
And yes if you choose to consume a moderate quantity of alcohol and reckon you can maintain an adequate watch picking your head up through the companway hatch every 20 minutes I think you should keep that to yourself and not try to influence newcomers to bad practice. You display a total disregard to good seamanship or have never actually had other peoples lives in your custody. At night everybody wears a PFD and Spinlock with integrated harness are the only ones I will permit. Everybody must clip on from down below before egressing the companionway hatch. Seriously if you think you can maintain an adequate watch in the coastal fishing zones by picking your head up every 20 min you will come a cropper. How many fishing boats broadcast AIS? How many are visible to your radar? How many fishing boats maintain a watch when working? You really should try not to spread bad practice as the norm.

Spinlock PFD only? Have you read this? I hope they have modified them since then, but they were a very poor design with only 3 attachment points from the bladder to the vest. I was about to buy one recently but decided to research more after reading this.

www.practical-sailor.com/blog/report-cites-problems-with-spinlock-deckvests

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frant said..
Not sure why images are upside down

A little utility called "Irfan Viewer" can fix that right up for you.

Download it from here:- www.irfanview.com/




P.S. A bit of paragraphing in your posts would make them a lot easier to read.

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southace said..
Well no one has ever called me gross being semi naked before!
Good idea yes someone should be on deck at all times on watch freezing there gonads of staring out into the black obsess . Seriously mate a watch offshore only states your on comand and you need to scan the horozin every 20 minutes for trafic. Unless your sailing into or out of a storm I don't ask any more than that. And my rule on night watches is that you don't leave the cockpit without a harness and PDF , I'm sorry if it sounded like my seamanship sounded a little sloppy. Whoops

Would you like to book some lessons on offshore sailing Southace. Seems like it's ok to be down below totally unprepared for any sailing corrections required. Never been hit by a big black cloud bringing 50 knots (even if for only 30 minutes or so) but if you are happy downstairs when the rig falls out so be it. Sailing is what is done upstairs and if you don't enjoy it sufficiently to actually want to be out there then that's ok but as I said don't try to give the wrong impression to newbies. Then we go downstairs to the Nav station to navigate. If you have your Nav equipment at the helm then how do you navigate when you are in the comfort downstairs. Navigation is when you check the weather gribs Plan your course, see if there are any big obstacles in the way maybe just zoom in as well as out to see the big picture, do some DR to get an idea were you will be over the next x hours or days etc etc. best done at a Nav station.

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SandS said..


In my opinion , when steering , it can be very handy / comforting ,to have a chartplotter right in your face at the helm !

and yes please keep your pubic hairs contained frant!!

When steering at night I find it very comforting to have someone below blowing their night vision on a plotter while I can see stars, lights, clouds and wave tops from the helm.

I am not a fan of single handed sailing, though have enjoyed it at times, so at night I prefer just to have a readably lit compass and if in close waters a readably lit sounder. All else I find a distraction.

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FreeRadical said..


Spinlock PFD only? Have you read this? I hope they have modified them since then, but they were a very poor design with only 3 attachment points from the bladder to the vest. I was about to buy one recently but decided to research more after reading this.

www.practical-sailor.com/blog/report-cites-problems-with-spinlock-deckvests

You have to read the report. They were caught in surf. I actually rely on the harness and leg strap fixings. Ever see a non Deckvest type PFD without crotch strap inflated? All the Deckvest attachments are adjustable when inflated and in water. However it's primary function is as a harness to stop going overboard. I have attached to mine aPLB a really sharp knife and a double shot of rum. If the harness function fails and I wind up in the drink offshore at night in a rough conditions I will drink the rum cause it's going to be my last drink ever as there is no way an MOB can ever be recovered. Then pierce the bladder anyway to get it over and done with. Others on board are instructed to take their rum ration for a final toast. I think that for comfort and fit the Spinlock Deckvest is still the best.

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frant said..


At night everybody wears a PFD and Spinlock with integrated harness are the only ones I will permit. Everybody must clip on from down below before egressing the companionway hatch. Seriously if you think you can maintain an adequate watch in the coastal fishing zones by picking your head up every 20 min you will come a cropper. How many fishing boats broadcast AIS? How many are visible to your radar? How many fishing boats maintain a watch when working? You really should try not to spread bad practice as the norm.

Agree. It is a legal obligation for masters of all vessels at sea to ensure a proper lookout is maintained at all times.

Yes paragraphing would make your post far more non text book.
I'm not wasting my time on this subject any longer ,

I'm just thinking of all those around the world solo sailors huddled in the cockpits day and night just so they can be prepered for those corrections required! Sail trimming , weather watching.... Etc

In reality most stay below when offshore and that's why I ask the question about putting my Nav through my TV as I like to watch movies !

And why would I need offshore sailing lessons ? To learn how to wear a harness and to experience being cold and wet sitting in your cockpit! No thanks ! Haha

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frant said..

FreeRadical said..


Spinlock PFD only? Have you read this? I hope they have modified them since then, but they were a very poor design with only 3 attachment points from the bladder to the vest. I was about to buy one recently but decided to research more after reading this.

www.practical-sailor.com/blog/report-cites-problems-with-spinlock-deckvests

You have to read the report. They were caught in surf. I actually rely on the harness and leg strap fixings. Ever see a non Deckvest type PFD without crotch strap inflated? All the Deckvest attachments are adjustable when inflated and in water. However it's primary function is as a harness to stop going overboard. I have attached to mine aPLB a really sharp knife and a double shot of rum. If the harness function fails and I wind up in the drink offshore at night in a rough conditions I will drink the rum cause it's going to be my last drink ever as there is no way an MOB can ever be recovered. Then pierce the bladder anyway to get it over and done with. Others on board are instructed to take their rum ration for a final toast. I think that for comfort and fit the Spinlock Deckvest is still the best.

Really that's what how you teach your crew to deal with a MOB recovery Offshore? It's a little different in the commercial practice.

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frant said..

FreeRadical said..


Spinlock PFD only? Have you read this? I hope they have modified them since then, but they were a very poor design with only 3 attachment points from the bladder to the vest. I was about to buy one recently but decided to research more after reading this.

www.practical-sailor.com/blog/report-cites-problems-with-spinlock-deckvests

You have to read the report. They were caught in surf. I actually rely on the harness and leg strap fixings. Ever see a non Deckvest type PFD without crotch strap inflated? All the Deckvest attachments are adjustable when inflated and in water. However it's primary function is as a harness to stop going overboard. I have attached to mine aPLB a really sharp knife and a double shot of rum. If the harness function fails and I wind up in the drink offshore at night in a rough conditions I will drink the rum cause it's going to be my last drink ever as there is no way an MOB can ever be recovered. Then pierce the bladder anyway to get it over and done with. Others on board are instructed to take their rum ration for a final toast. I think that for comfort and fit the Spinlock Deckvest is still the best.

I was in the Flinders Islet race in 2009 where PwC Shockwave was lost. Early during that race, another yacht lost a crew member overboard, offshore, at night, in rough conditions, no PFD (not sure about rum). The crew member was successfully recovered in about 12mins. I don't think it was easy, but it was done.

So perhaps don't try and give newbies the wrong impression!

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FreeRadical said..

frant said..

FreeRadical said..


Spinlock PFD only? Have you read this? I hope they have modified them since then, but they were a very poor design with only 3 attachment points from the bladder to the vest. I was about to buy one recently but decided to research more after reading this.

www.practical-sailor.com/blog/report-cites-problems-with-spinlock-deckvests

You have to read the report. They were caught in surf. I actually rely on the harness and leg strap fixings. Ever see a non Deckvest type PFD without crotch strap inflated? All the Deckvest attachments are adjustable when inflated and in water. However it's primary function is as a harness to stop going overboard. I have attached to mine aPLB a really sharp knife and a double shot of rum. If the harness function fails and I wind up in the drink offshore at night in a rough conditions I will drink the rum cause it's going to be my last drink ever as there is no way an MOB can ever be recovered. Then pierce the bladder anyway to get it over and done with. Others on board are instructed to take their rum ration for a final toast. I think that for comfort and fit the Spinlock Deckvest is still the best.

I was in the Flinders Islet race in 2009 where PwC Shockwave was lost. Early during that race, another yacht lost a crew member overboard, offshore, at night, in rough conditions, no PFD (not sure about rum). The crew member was successfully recovered in about 12mins. I don't think it was easy, but it was done.

So perhaps don't try and give newbies the wrong impression!

Mmmmm. Just a little bit of difference between a fully crewed race boat with a full watch on deck and bloke steering and a singlehanded/short handed boat with auto pilot steering. If no one sees you go over and doesn't institute an immediate MOB recovery you are a goner. What was the crew doing on deck without PFD and tether? Far more cases of non recovery even of blokes overboard but still tethered. Just have a look at the Volvo guys in the Southern Ocean. They don't bother with PDFs only tethers. Newbies should be taught that if you go overboard that's curtains.

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southace said..

frant said..

FreeRadical said..


Spinlock PFD only? Have you read this? I hope they have modified them since then, but they were a very poor design with only 3 attachment points from the bladder to the vest. I was about to buy one recently but decided to research more after reading this.

www.practical-sailor.com/blog/report-cites-problems-with-spinlock-deckvests

You have to read the report. They were caught in surf. I actually rely on the harness and leg strap fixings. Ever see a non Deckvest type PFD without crotch strap inflated? All the Deckvest attachments are adjustable when inflated and in water. However it's primary function is as a harness to stop going overboard. I have attached to mine aPLB a really sharp knife and a double shot of rum. If the harness function fails and I wind up in the drink offshore at night in a rough conditions I will drink the rum cause it's going to be my last drink ever as there is no way an MOB can ever be recovered. Then pierce the bladder anyway to get it over and done with. Others on board are instructed to take their rum ration for a final toast. I think that for comfort and fit the Spinlock Deckvest is still the best.

Really that's what how you teach your crew to deal with a MOB recovery Offshore? It's a little different in the commercial practice.

Don't worry I am au fait with MOB practices. It is just better to tell someone the harsh reality. If you don't wear a PFD that is an effective harness and tether on be fore egressing the companionway they are breaking the racing rules if racing and fundamental safety rules otherwise although on your boat it ok to wander about the cockpit apparently.

South ace. So does your c70 plotter support a VGA output and what is the resolution. It will be less than 640x480 so I doubt that you could actually display that on your tv screen.

Frant. You are such a legend. Answer for everything.

Here I was, crossing the Malaca straights... back n forth. Single handed.
Now tell me please, shall I not snooze for 20 minutes once during a 60 hour passage?
I do, often, and after 7 crossings I wonder why myself and several other brilliant, single sailors have done it multiple times without incident?
Sure, talk up 'text book' methods but at the end of the day, it's you, what ever crew you have & what ever you need to do to get you across in one piece.
FYI. Had a 60 knot Sumatran knock me flat whilst sitting awake in the cockpit. Was sailing downwind in 25 knots and couldn't see it coming in the dark. Blew out my fully reefed main

That's a particularly nice set up there frant. Screen size is probably the minimum size required for navigation though I prefer a 4 x 3 screen. Roller trackball mouse screwed down on a pad on the nav table so water drains away would set it off nicely. Keep up the good work.

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Frant said...
"Don't worry I am au fait with MOB practices. It is just better to tell someone the harsh reality. If you don't wear a PFD that is an effective harness and tether on be fore egressing the companionway they are breaking the racing rules if racing and fundamental safety rules otherwise although on your boat it ok to wander about the cockpit apparently."

That is a fairly broad statement, and not quite correct.
Using the types of vessels being discussed here, i.e. boats with below deck / above deck areas, capable of attaining up to Cat. 1 safety certificates, or under the jurisdiction of N.S.W. waterways, the compulsory wearing of lifejackets / harnesses are only required in certain situations. R.R.S. Special regs, cat.1,2,3 "SHALL be used between sunset to sunrise". There are other situations where the wearing of safety gear is "strongly recommended", but that is not compulsory.

Daylight in benign weather it is the skippers call, also certain people may be happier to wear them at all times.


Waterways at least in N.S.W. All boats / all crew when crossing bars.
Otherwise at skippers responsibility. i.e. When the skipper considers a "heightened risk" situation exists.


Sorry for the thread hijack.

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morningsun said..
Frant said...
"Don't worry I am au fait with MOB practices. It is just better to tell someone the harsh reality. If you don't wear a PFD that is an effective harness and tether on be fore egressing the companionway they are breaking the racing rules if racing and fundamental safety rules otherwise although on your boat it ok to wander about the cockpit apparently."

We were talking about night time sailing in lousy weather (strong wind warnings current if in a forecast area) so yes RRS Spec Regs for Cat 1 apply. You will find that most "organised" cruising rallies apply the same Category Safety Regs and all NZ vessels departing NZ must comply with Cat 1. statement is quite correct!!!

The info is great, but it's the tone of voice that gets me. It's nice to offer opinions, that's what we are here for. The " I condem you personally for what you have written" stuff is getting boring.

www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/compute-stick.html

This could work. It's a usb stick that turns any tv into a computer?

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brizzydave said..
www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/compute-stick.html

This could work. It's a usb stick that turns any tv into a computer?

looks good brizzy

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brizzydave said..
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html

This could work. It's a usb stick that turns any tv into a computer?

Seeing as it needs a HDMI plug on the TV ( most tv's these days have those) why not just plug in a standard laptop computer that has a HDMI output port and then have the benefit of a full fledged system that can run nearly anything you want it to.

You could even run a nav program like open CPN or MaxSea, do your route planning and still have a fully functional nav back up system.

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LooseChange said..

brizzydave said..
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html

This could work. It's a usb stick that turns any tv into a computer?

Seeing as it needs a HDMI plug on the TV ( most tv's these days have those) why not just plug in a standard laptop computer that has a HDMI output port and then have the benefit of a full fledged system that can run nearly anything you want it to.

You could even run a nav program like open CPN or MaxSea, do your route planning and still have a fully functional nav back up system.

Yes your right that's what Ive got my little black box ( plus a old Dell lappy) but the USB would be a good emergency back up . Ive a USB stick here that I could transfer the GPS program on it to that PC stick has its own Ubunta program does music GPS, Ive forgotten what else it does right now good little bootable USB program

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brizzydave said..
The info is great, but it's the tone of voice that gets me. It's nice to offer opinions, that's what we are here for. The " I condem you personally for what you have written" stuff is getting boring.

A bit late coming to this thread, but having read it, must agree with Dave.

The "newbie" line is pretty tiring.

The attitude that posts on this forum must be self-censored for the benefit of "newbies" is misguided.

This forum is an open discussion board. If you happened to drive 80kph in a 60kph zone, its perfectly fine to share that on this forum. So-called "newbies" seeking driver education can go and get it from an appropriate source, instead of expecting censorship on this forum's threads.

If you read this forum, you may see good, bad, ugly, stupid things. That's fine, it's not trying to be a handbook; it's a social forum full of diverse opinions. If you seek guidelines, go read something else.

This is not the place to criticise other posters on the basis of what you believe "newbies" should read or not read.