Hi all!

Currently in the process of looking at building a daysailer with the D 870 by Italian designer Alessandro Comuzzi being one of my preferred designs. I have been working though the study plans and speaking with a few builders with promising feedback received. Construction is plywood/strip plank and comes with detailed building guidelines and CNC files for cutting etc. See link for more info on the D 870
www.alessandrocomuzzi.com/portfolio/d-870-daltronde/

Speaking with a few others in the industry the comment has been made to look for an existing boat such as the Adams 10 or similar and rebuild the deck/configure into a daysailer. To ensure I look at all options id like to see if anyone knows of any hulls, possibly something that has been out of the water for a while that needs work, and preferably in WA. Keel preferbly fixed with an inboard rudder (which I know the Adams don't have).

This also goes without saying, this is a large project, one that I am prepared both financially and time wise to commit to, it wont be completed overnight but at a comfortable pace with subcontractors where required.

Thanks in advance, Justin

Make it really cheap and simple.
Search "etchell conversions"
Buy a good boat for $5k with a trailer
The black NZ one looks sweet.

The Irish one is just georgous.
So you the advantage of club crane lifts in lots of places and easy transport.

There was a deck mould floating around QLD a few years ago based on the MASRM 720 coach house.
There is at least two around Pittwater with little Yanmar fitted

I agree with lydia, an Etchells would be the best daysailer. That D 870 would be a decent project if it was totally built by yourself but would still be expensive and you would end up with a one-off plywood yacht with very poor resale value.
For some reason daysailers are not popular in Australia even though 95% of cruiser racers are sailed as daysailers. The normal Adams 10 is a daysailer. If you feel the need for wood then saving a nice mahogany Dragon or 5.5 might suit.

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Interesting ..... the boat in the link is more of a sportsboat and it looks like you need a handful of crew to sail it - photos showed 5 people. Of course most sports boats are daysailors.

It that is the style you want Maybe magic 25 - there has been on it two of those converted into day sailors

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lydia said..
Make it really cheap and simple.
Search "etchell conversions"
Buy a good boat for $5k with a trailer
The black NZ one looks sweet.

The Irish one is just gorgeous.
So you the advantage of club crane lifts in lots of places and easy transport.

There was a deck mould floating around QLD a few years ago based on the MASRM 720 coach house.
There is at least two around Pittwater with little Yanmar fitted

There are some cheap etchell's about for sure, my only dislike with the etchell is its low freeboard. Mind you the photos of the converted etchell in NZ is very appealing.

I found a blog in the UK etchells22.wordpress.com/ who looks to have started but not completed the conversion.

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Ramona said..
I agree with lydia, an Etchells would be the best daysailer. That D 870 would be a decent project if it was totally built by yourself but would still be expensive and you would end up with a one-off plywood yacht with very poor resale value.
For some reason daysailers are not popular in Australia even though 95% of cruiser racers are sailed as daysailers. The normal Adams 10 is a daysailer. If you feel the need for wood then saving a nice mahogany Dragon or 5.5 might suit.

Hi Ramona,

I have always liked the idea of a daysailer, all of our previous sailboats (SS24 & 24) have been used for nothing more than that. With the kids growing up id like to build something with a bit more deck/cockpit space we can either sail easy it in light winds, or put a crew on board to sail it a little more competitively if the opportunity arises.

I certainly don't have a huge appetite for timber, The ply just seems like a great way to build a boat in a private workshop environment, of course if its done correctly. Of course as you mentioned the resale valve is not attractive. The idea if I was to proceed would be to build something to keep for many years, something the kids can eventually take out in their later teens etc.

Solings come up every now and again but are even wetter than an E22. What about a Folkboat? Can reduce the cabin length a bit? Whatever you do need to be careful a frankenboat doesn't result.

Dare I suggest a Yachting World Diamond??

Flying 15s are good for three people if not racing.

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cisco said..
Dare I suggest a Yachting World Diamond??

Flying 15s are good for three people if not racing.

Etchell's are as cheap as Diamonds these days and have the advantage of heaps of secondhand sails available.

Robert Hick did the "Anna" style 30 footer which was a lower freeboard and bigger cockpit design than the larger 30fter he did. Not sure how many were built and expect most would be in Melbourne. Very good sailing 30fter not a motel.

sundancemarine.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Sales-Brochure-Hick-30-Anna.pdf

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r13 said..
Robert Hick did the "Anna" style 30 footer which was a lower freeboard and bigger cockpit design than the larger 30fter he did. Not sure how many were built and expect most would be in Melbourne. Very good sailing 30fter not a motel.

sundancemarine.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Sales-Brochure-Hick-30-Anna.pdf

Very nice looking sportsboat r13. Still a decent freeboard to the etchell. I like the open cockpit. Will look into this further.

That D 870 by Comuzzi is a sweet looking boat. It reminded me immediately of the Adams 10 with its comfortable bench seating and vast cockpit.
And I agree that the Hick designed 'Anna' 30 is a good local comparison. But just to excite the traditionalists, check out this Center Harbor 31 described by the Tasmanian builder here www.denmanmarine.com.au/center-harbor-31-i33/ and now seen being sailed by the proud owner here on Pittwater.

Good one Justin. If you google Hick 30 many links will come up including chat lines circa 2004 which is about when they first came out, especially on sailinganarchy.........with the associated occasional dross on that site however initially well meaning..............

forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/208451-hick-yachts/

One of the inshore H30s in Sydney Very Tasty is probably nearing 20ys old and is still really top shelf - still beating everything around that size and larger except Mumm30s and Bull9000s and probably has beaten them also on occasions.

The Roper9000 in NZ looks similar to what you are maybe after? It is probably a one-off but has been launched and proven. Certainly looks like a good design and very well built. Expect won't have cnc files.

boatingnz.co.nz/boat-reviews/roper-9000/

I only found it as am 1/2 owner in a Ross930 - the Roper uses a R930 rig. A year ago we changed our rig to a swept back spreader design, no runners - that is what you should use including short footed jibs - aka E22 rig. Short footed jibs and mainsails are so much easier to handle on board - just roll them up or flake them. As long as the mainsail foot is long enough to give you height going to windward - so a far aft enough leech.

Steve Thompson has many yachts in your size range which could be of interest.

tboat.com/Services/buildown.html

Inboard rudder - not sure why you have this as a "nice to have"? On this size yacht a transom hung rudder suitably engineered is cheaper and less maintenance going forward? Ok such a design needs to be a bit deeper but ours has stood up well since built 1985............we renewed the lower pintles / gudgeons 3 years ago to correct the wear.

Finally the cockpit design - the Adams10 have the sit in seats as well the sit out on the sidedeck arrangement. Our Ross930 has similar but a higher coaming so that when sitting out the coaming provides good resistance to sliding back into the cockpit. Sailing dead downwind the sit in seat geometry is very comfortable. Murray Ross was a sailmaker by trade and got into yacht design after Paul Whiting's very unfortunate passing - for sure he got the R930 cockpit geometry perfect. Morale of the story is some of the sportsboats have "sit on" type cockpits where the height from the side deck to the cockpit floor is not much - and there is no coaming but that is easily fixed by adding one - but for some people the result of such a shallow cockpit is not comfortable, with at times knees up too high.

regards Rob

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r13 said..
Good one Justin. If you google Hick 30 many links will come up including chat lines circa 2004 which is about when they first came out, especially on sailinganarchy.........with the associated occasional dross on that site however initially well meaning..............

forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/208451-hick-yachts/

One of the inshore H30s in Sydney Very Tasty is probably nearing 20ys old and is still really top shelf - still beating everything around that size and larger except Mumm30s and Bull9000s and probably has beaten them also on occasions.

The Roper9000 in NZ looks similar to what you are maybe after? It is probably a one-off but has been launched and proven. Certainly looks like a good design and very well built. Expect won't have cnc files.

boatingnz.co.nz/boat-reviews/roper-9000/

I only found it as am 1/2 owner in a Ross930 - the Roper uses a R930 rig. A year ago we changed our rig to a swept back spreader design, no runners - that is what you should use including short footed jibs - aka E22 rig. Short footed jibs and mainsails are so much easier to handle on board - just roll them up or flake them. As long as the mainsail foot is long enough to give you height going to windward - so a far aft enough leech.

Steve Thompson has many yachts in your size range which could be of interest.

tboat.com/Services/buildown.html

Inboard rudder - not sure why you have this as a "nice to have"? On this size yacht a transom hung rudder suitably engineered is cheaper and less maintenance going forward? Ok such a design needs to be a bit deeper but ours has stood up well since built 1985............we renewed the lower pintles / gudgeons 3 years ago to correct the wear.

Finally the cockpit design - the Adams10 have the sit in seats as well the sit out on the sidedeck arrangement. Our Ross930 has similar but a higher coaming so that when sitting out the coaming provides good resistance to sliding back into the cockpit. Sailing dead downwind the sit in seat geometry is very comfortable. Murray Ross was a sailmaker by trade and got into yacht design after Paul Whiting's very unfortunate passing - for sure he got the R930 cockpit geometry perfect. Morale of the story is some of the sportsboats have "sit on" type cockpits where the height from the side deck to the cockpit floor is not much - and there is no coaming but that is easily fixed by adding one - but for some people the result of such a shallow cockpit is not comfortable, with at times knees up too high.

regards Rob

Hi Rob,Appreciate the reply and information.

The Hick 30 is a nice looking boat and the Roper9000 certainly fits the bill, but as you said its a one off with minimal information available.

Will have a look at Steve Thompsons range of designs. Thanks for the heads up.

An externally hung transom rudder is not a deal breaker, the inboard rudder is more aesthetically pleasing and keeps the rear nice and clean. I think if an Adams 10 came up cheap I would look at options there.

Valid points in regards to the coaming and depth of the cockpit, important to consider and to be honest I hadn't really thought about that too much.

Another Alessandro Comuzzi model I have been looking at is the Trieste 21, notably a smaller boat than the D 870 but has nice modern sportboat lines. available in an open or cabin configuration and is still a ply, strip construction.
www.alessandrocomuzzi.com/portfolio/trieste-21open/

or

Comuzzi 850, not ply but cedar strip planking, this is a nice boat...
www.alessandrocomuzzi.com/portfolio/comuzzi-850/


Trieste 21 open



850

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jgb1787 said..


There are some cheap etchell's about for sure, my only dislike with the etchell is its low freeboard. Mind you the photos of the converted etchell in NZ is very appealing.

I found a blog in the UK etchells22.wordpress.com/ who looks to have started but not completed the conversion.

The "Longshot" Soling conversion process included lifting the freeboard. The article by the designer made it sound simple. I think he just put laminex on one side of the hull and laid glass against it, after cutting the lid off. The end result looked good and would be vastly easier and cheaper than building a new hull.

The Italian designs don't seem to have much advantage over a modified Etchells or a Rocket 7.8/Elliott/Spider/R8/Magic etc with the cabin cut off and some other modifications. The Italian sportsboat scene seems to be more oriented towards one designs, which is not a bad thing but may mean that their designs are not under the same sort of pressure.

Oh, and for inspiration about wooden sportsboats/dayboats;

www.la-yacht.de/segelyachten/segelyacht-la-850/

Scroll through to the bar pic.

Thanks Justin.

Good input from Chris as always. Have seen those German lake boats - pianos on water...........

I forgot Dudley Dix he has many excellent ply designs and is a very experienced sailor to boot which shows in his designs.

www.dixdesign.com/

The French have a few companies doing ply boats not sure if they sell plans.

uk.boats.com/reviews/rm970-review/

The Italian designs you have shown look ok but both sterns/transoms look too pinched in - they should be ok maybe going upwind but will wallow reaching and running. Bruce Farr with his 727 1/4 tonner designed 1972 which won the 1975 title in France showed the way for boats which could hang in upwind but blaze away reaching and running.

Don't want to swamp you with information but the time / effort / cost of modifying an existing Soling or Etchells to result in something of unknown value and dated performance, versus the same for building a 2021 design hull and putting a 2nd hand E22 rig on it, is difficult to justify.

Someone sailing out of Five Dock Bay here in Sydney built a round bilge hull and put an Adams 8 rig on it in the 90s or 00s I forget when - named Cobalt. It looked great sailing out and going up harbour many times but not sure what happened to it.

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Chris 249 said..
Oh, and for inspiration about wooden sportsboats/dayboats;

www.la-yacht.de/segelyachten/segelyacht-la-850/

Scroll through to the bar pic.

Wow, what a stunning yacht, and a clever bar. There's alot of detailed work going on there to create that minimalist look. I like it. Alot.

Just can't see the issue with Etchell freeboard.
Sailed them in plenty and at times in very marginal conditions (with good crew I accept) and never even filled one up and that usually only happens downhill with a kite on in waves.
Major Etchell races are held in much more breeze and waves than you will ever day sail in.

Looks good
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/borresen-bellarine-build-bellarine-borresen-dragon/259817

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Bananabender said..
Looks good
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/borresen-bellarine-build-bellarine-borresen-dragon/259817

Beautiful looking boat in my opinion. There is also a timber version for sale here in WA. Present nicely but screams future maintenance!

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/international-dragon/258324

They are certainly great looking traditional day sailers. Pretty cheap as well

I saw this the other day. It looks like Catalina are also making a day sailor.

www.catalinayachts.com/sport-series/275-sport/

Is this of interest?

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1996-elliott-7/SSE-AD-7308409/?Cr=0