Has anyone here sailed one of these things?
Just wondering whether it would be an option to get more room/stability at anchor for the family or a quick way to destroy the joy of sailing.

Not sailed one but watched the market in Europe. Catanas have always held their value and I would say you are now paying too much for an old boat.
The Cannes boat show was just on and about 1/3 of the sailing boats were cats. With the market exploding in Europe I would think you could pick up a more modern package that will give you more space for the family and better sailing capabilities.
As always when buying a boat, what will you actually do with it ??? Where will you keep it and how much will that cost?? What are the running costs?? Buying an older boat where electronics etc are a nightmare might cost you more in the long run.
If it flies floats or does something else starting with f rent it.

After basically giving up on making windward progression on a charter cat I requested the track of someone with a daggerboard semi performance cat and someone nicely posted up their track of an old Catana 40s. Looks pretty good to me, S to N current pretty flat conditions 15-20 kn.
I figure I'd be able to fit a kite and a board somewhere...

" a quick way to destroy the joy of sailing " .are you taking the piss or trying to start the old mono versus multi argument.

Select to expand quote

tarquin1 said..
Not sailed one but watched the market in Europe. Catanas have always held their value and I would say you are now paying too much for an old boat.
The Cannes boat show was just on and about 1/3 of the sailing boats were cats. With the market exploding in Europe I would think you could pick up a more modern package that will give you more space for the family and better sailing capabilities.
As always when buying a boat, what will you actually do with it ??? Where will you keep it and how much will that cost?? What are the running costs?? Buying an older boat where electronics etc are a nightmare might cost you more in the long run.
If it flies floats or does something else starting with f rent it.

Google shows that a Catana 43 was given a San Francisco multi PHRF of 96, which is quicker than a Lagoon or Leopard, but translates to about the same speed as Jules' Northshore. PHRF figures for other comparable boats are in line with that.

If you are already concerned about coming alongside and other boathandling issues (which is perfectly reasonable given that a Catana is about 9 tonnes or more) then you may find a big cat even more problematic, and for sailing around on the harbour, with the short tacking that involves, it's a heck of a big boat.

As I understand it, the first Catana (the 40, designed by Lock Crowther) was the most performance oriented of the bunch.

Everyone feels the joy of sailing in a different way so no one can tell you what sailing a cruising multi will do for your joy underway.

Maybe this would be of interest

www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/482339733797129/?media_id=0&ref=share_attachment

Select to expand quote

Chris 249 said..

As I understand it, the first Catana (the 40, designed by Lock Crowther) was the most performance oriented of the bunch.

Everyone feels the joy of sailing in a different way so no one can tell you what sailing a cruising multi will do for your joy underway.

Ah, it does seem they put on a few extra pounds for 3ft boat length. 40s 5500kg - 431 8000 kg

Side note, I spent hours over different charters laughing at trying to get em to go to windward, fun for a week but instructive for me as to what I want/don't want in a cruising boat.

Thanks guys. All very good points which are bobbing around in my mind while I ponder the possibility.

Having just retired and having had a good friend pass away another friend (who already has a large-but slow- cat) recently said to me "Julian this is the end game and there is no point in leaving this world with the most super still saved". Also when I was looking for a boat there were quite a number for sale by older guys who although they might still have a number of years left were not fit enough to sail their boats any more.

I guess there is no substitute for actually sailing one yourself. Certainly wouldn't consider anything that didn't have centre boards or wasn't build as a "performance" cat although it's hard to know whether performance cat just means in relation to other catamarans or whether it would be truly enjoyable to sail.

Yes it's a big boat but I think some of the boat handling issues are mitigated by having the twin screws which certainly enhance manoeuvrability.

Thanks Sparau and Chris 249 for those performance comparisons.

Yes they are extremely expensive at the moment but then again more modern cats are even more expensive. Yes I also realise that they are old boats and that many will tequire 3x as much work to get them back in to acceptable condition than I have already performed on my 1988 North shore over nearly 18 months.

As an aside there is one for sale in New Zealand at the moment and I joined a Catana Facebook page which contained an interesting comment about that particular boat being for sale for the 3rd time in 2 years. Comments like these are extremely valuable to boat buyers and can save the considerable cost of a survey or possibly even a very expensive mistake.

For the moment I'll keep dreaming and biding my time until an opportunity presents itself locally for a test sail. Who knows we might even have a recession soon which should present good buying opportunities.

Hey Mr Moto, I get where you are coming from. In 2017 I was vigorously digging a hole in the garden, went inside for a break, flopped horizontal on the couch.
Ever had a migraine? You can get dark halos around the edge of your vision, had that happen for
1...2...3 seconds. Boom !
That is 2 aneurysms bursting in your brain, no prior warning, swam 2km in the pool 5 days before. Out at that point, blood conducts electricity so basically short circuits your brain.Ambo, heli to Brissie, craniotomy - circular saw your skull in half to operate. Ooh, yeah, pain lol. 14 days in ICU in an induced coma, several resuscitations later then 3 weeks of bed and just thinking would increase blood flow to the brain and i'd pass out from pain.
Lessons? Keep fit, make the most of every second. I've got a job interview Tuesday to get my travel by boat bucket list back on track lol : )

Anyone have experience with something like this?
Strip plank (arguably the best core?) 36 ft - 5 ton - smallish but big enough? I think they have 2.0m headroom, I'm 6'1 my son (16) 6'2
Schionning Cosmos
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/schionning-cosmos-1100-built-by-schionning-boats/282597

Btw - managed to hold onto an IT contract for 2020-21 and we chartered a Seawind 1000 for 14 days as it was daughter's finish year 12 present / request to revisit the Whitsundays.
So somewhat baggy sails etc but for a laugh here is a shot of our track trying get to Nara inlet, E wind 10-15 kn, flat water end of flood tide so possibly against a slight current. The squiggle is me giving up after 90 minutes lol. So I tried 60 apparent thinking speed, then 45 and finally pinching at 30 where it just slipped sideways.

Select to expand quote

sparau said..

Anyone have experience with something like this?
Strip plank (arguably the best core?) 36 ft - 5 ton - smallish but big enough? I think they have 2.0m headroom, I'm 6'1 my son (16) 6'2
Schionning Cosmos
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/schionning-cosmos-1100-built-by-schionning-boats/282597

Glad you are OK now

Looks like they did a galley up version at least by 2002

I wonder if the bridge deck clearance is a little low for blue water and I would want to check out how robust and easy-to-use those outboard lowering mechanisms were. No separate shower either.

Sounds like maybe no gelcoat just a paint job. Looks fast tho :)

I'm in 2 minds about galley up/down. For quick access to make a coffee or grab a snack while keeping watch and involvement of whomever is cooking with rest of crew galley up is great.
The usual downside people say is movement while underway, which depending on intended uses could be a factor but I reckon it's more about storage. If half your ingredients are below you could end up with a fair amount of faffing about.
I'd probably choose galley up given 2 identically maintained boats but I have only seen 1 galley up smaller Schionning for sale over years.

Regarding bridge deck clearance it does look low although it does have a nice radius and not being terribly large it may be enough?
As to outboards I am not a big fan, cheaper to replace but petrol on board is more dangerous and less efficient and they are unpleasant to be around. Would it sail well enough that they are only there for emergencies?
At one point in the Seawind we tried to motor into short 2ft swell in Whitsunday passage and really couldn't make headway due to hobby horsing and occasional cavitation. A heavy 40ft Leopard with inboards comfortably cruised past...

As to outboards this boat managed a RTW, might be closer to the Catana in capability, galley up.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/grainger-43/280814

I'm struggling a bit with the under bridgedeck profile of the 431?

Select to expand quote

sparau said..
I'm struggling a bit with the under bridgedeck profile of the 431?

What part of it don't you like?

I think it's nearly identical to the 471 and although not really evident in your picture it is a lot further back and a lot higher than on pigs like the Lagoons (see pic below).

I also think the inward steps which extend from the forward escape hatches to the rear under the bridge deck (but the not the transom) are a master stroke to reduce waterline beam but allow internal accommodation where it is needed. Kind of reminiscent of pre-dreadnought area era battleship gun emplacement bulges :).They correspond in height to the base of the front(and rear) cabin bunks where the width is needed and taper out towards the extremities immediately after the bunks. The longitudinal bunks (as opposed to transverse beds in front cabins) also serve to reduce bridge deck profile and therefore increase height forward. In some models they correspond with the vanity in one of the heads as pictured below.
Also love the round topped doors to maintain strength and about the only thing I am not mad about is the colour of the internal wood trim. I noticed that Blue Indigo, the one for sale in Malaysia at the moment, has had it's internal timber work removed and substituted with a lighter colour.

The under steps just looked like they might be noisy, having 2 flat panels with a 90 degree join not far above waterline but having a look at a couple of 471 owners comments it was only mentioned once so I guess they must be high enough out of the water to not be an issue.

This was an interesting read, guy sells 471 due to saying it won't sail well in ~5 knots, buys an Outremer. Clearly not cash strapped... : )
sailpuffin.com/2019/05/18/chasing-performance/

Select to expand quote

sparau said..


This was an interesting read, guy sells 471 due to saying it won't sail well in ~5 knots, buys an Outremer Clearly not cash strapped... : )
sailpuffin.com/2019/05/18/chasing-performance/

Great read thanks for that :-)

Select to expand quote

sparau said..
The under steps just looked like they might be noisy, having 2 flat panels with a 90 degree join not far above waterline but having a look at a couple of 471 owners comments it was only mentioned once so I guess they must be high enough out of the water to not be an issue.

This was an interesting read, guy sells 471 due to saying it won't sail well in ~5 knots, buys an Outremer. Clearly not cash strapped... : )
sailpuffin.com/2019/05/18/chasing-performance/

Where were these comments including the one that mentioned the steps?

Sorry can't find it now but it sounded more like an unusual thing, owner? was below loud noise under berth.
It was in a cruisers forum thread in multihulls.
However there seem to be many threads about them being great in confused cross seas so can't be an issue.
e.g.
www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/cat-buying-causing-domestic-strife-181934-5.html
"Catanas have a high bridgedeck clearance and we were able to maintain 10-11kts speed through 8'-12' cross seas between the islands (martinique, St Vincent, St. Lucia) and the boat never slammed once. The motion inside was "jerky" at this speed and you had to be careful moving around. Some of the other charter cats with lower bridge deck clearance had to motor through these seas at 5-6 kts "picking their way through" due to slamming. "

Compared to a Schionning under bridge deck which usually have smooth radius or an angle like these I had an "ooh thats looks odd" moment.