Hi all

With the retirement of Wild Oats because of a canting keel hydraulic failure I was wondering if the keel was able to be centralised and locked is the boat still able to be sailed with a decent amount of sail up

Obviously in Wild Oats case the were not able or decided not to continue racing but I wonder how critical the canting function is for the stability of the boat under sail

I guess as well that there might be more problems with the keel or keel control mechanism other than what is being reported at the moment

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Hi all

With the retirement of Wild Oats because of a canting keel hydraulic failure I was wondering if the keel was able to be centralised and locked is the boat still able to be sailed with a decent amount of sail up

Obviously in Wild Oats case the were not able or decided not to continue racing but I wonder how critical the canting function is for the stability of the boat under sail

I guess as well that there might be more problems with the keel or keel control mechanism other than what is being reported at the moment

Regards Don

I suspect, without knowing, that once they couldn't win even if they could continue they pulled out. I doubt they would consider competing as sufficient reason to continue.

I just had a Google and on the web site for the boat it says with a non chanting keel it would require a additional 5 ton of lead in the keel on top of the 12 ton it has to achieve the same stability so I guess failure of the canting mecenism makes a fair bit of difference to how she sails

Regards Don

I'm inclined to agree with Morningbird. Once they are non competitive they are more likely to get more/better media coverage by retiring rather than arriving in Hobart late!

Yep Don I had the same thoughts

the " Corinthian " spirit is long gone- you would hope for safety reasons they could lock the keel central, and get to port safely, which they're doing.

but as well, considering they did a transpac (or something) a couple of years ago, they could lock the keel and keep sailing or racing under reduced sail- reliably!

ive done the race a few times with skippers who had the attitude "Finish at ALL cost" was the order of the day, not if we can't win we won't continue.

with that being said, I'm sure getting a broken boat home from Eden, is cheaper than getting it back from Hobart- along with crew costs, air fares, accomodation etc etc.

I'm sure there would be the skills & technology in Hobart to complete repairs if they did continue, & it would be good to see some of the cash spread around down there, but issues mention above must come into it.

I personally would have more respect for them to see them limp in under reduced sail, middle of the fleet, its still a maxi- no3 or no4 with double reefed main they would still be doing 10's & 12's

They were about 300nm from Hobart, 120mn or so from Eden. We don't know the details except that they were able to eventually centre the keel to stabilise the boat. Pretty much a no brainer to me, safety of crew, safety of boat, safety to nearest port.

Not much rag up, so obviously nursing it to port cautiously.

www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-27/wild-oats-xi-retires-from-sydney-to-hobart-yacht-race/8149174

I'm assuming everyone saw what happened to CQS in the harbour when they tacked and couldn't get the keel across. That was in less wind than the Oats had when retiring. Sure they could maybe have made it toHobart but with a much greater chance of injuring a crewman or loosing one overboard.

With Ch7 sponsorship, theTV coverage by Ch7 was focussed far too much on WO. From a PR point of view when things go wrong, the best thing you can do is slip off the radar, and disappear quietly.

Been a few canting hydraulics reported failures lately.

From an engineering POV it seems that the canting hydraulic cylinders may be failing from fatigue. I guess that most cylinder designs are not rated for the constant load changes and shock and vibration that these speed machines induce.

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Yara said..
With Ch7 sponsorship, theTV coverage by Ch7 was focussed far too much on WO. From a PR point of view when things go wrong, the best thing you can do is slip off the radar, and disappear quietly.

Been a few canting hydraulics reported failures lately.

From an engineering POV it seems that the canting hydraulic cylinders may be failing from fatigue. I guess that most cylinder designs are not rated for the constant load changes and shock and vibration that these speed machines induce.

Sort of what I was alluding too, these canting keel mechanisms have become problematic, possibly under engineered due to weight consideration, but they certainly seem to be failing on a regular basis.

maybe the rule makers need to start looking at it with the idea that they need to be designed with failsafes, so the keel can be manually (& reliably) locked in a central position and the boat sailed safely home, or to the finish.......what do the delivery crews do, I cant see them canting the keel to fly a no3 or no4 on deliveries

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FreeRadical said..
They were about 300nm from Hobart, 120mn or so from Eden. We don't know the details except that they were able to eventually centre the keel to stabilise the boat. Pretty much a no brainer to me, safety of crew, safety of boat, safety to nearest port.

Not much rag up, so obviously nursing it to port cautiously.

www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-27/wild-oats-xi-retires-from-sydney-to-hobart-yacht-race/8149174

They are motor sailing, that sail is up for stability

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Supersonic27 said..

Yara said..
With Ch7 sponsorship, theTV coverage by Ch7 was focussed far too much on WO. From a PR point of view when things go wrong, the best thing you can do is slip off the radar, and disappear quietly.

Been a few canting hydraulics reported failures lately.

From an engineering POV it seems that the canting hydraulic cylinders may be failing from fatigue. I guess that most cylinder designs are not rated for the constant load changes and shock and vibration that these speed machines induce.

Sort of what I was alluding too, these canting keel mechanisms have become problematic, possibly under engineered due to weight consideration, but they certainly seem to be failing on a regular basis.

maybe the rule makers need to start looking at it with the idea that they need to be designed with failsafes, so the keel can be manually (& reliably) locked in a central position and the boat sailed safely home, or to the finish.......what do the delivery crews do, I cant see them canting the keel to fly a no3 or no4 on deliveries

Hi Yara

I think I saw somewhere it was a failure of a trunnion so possibly it was the mounting for the ram that failed

I guess another question is does the win make Loyal more saleable because I believe it was for sale last year but didn't sell

Regards Don

Yes Don, I think it would help with the sale big time!

regatta winners, national champions, record holders etc all sell well, but at the end of the day, the asking price is key

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Supersonic27 said..
Yes Don, I think it would help with the sale big time!

regatta winners, national champions, record holders etc all sell well, but at the end of the day, the asking price is key

Hi Supersonic

One report mentioned 5 million dollars but it might just be conjecture

When you look at her history she has certainly had some ups and downs

Regards Don

Also in this years race conditions how would Comanche have performed if she had been racing assuming she had not had any gear failures

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Also in this years race conditions how would Comanche have performed if she had been racing assuming she had not had any gear failures

Regards Don

I think we could likely say Comanche would be the new record holder. I bet Clark was rueing the decision not to enter when they saw the forecast conditions.

"Comanche" what a great name for a super yacht!!!