Hi all:

I am in the process of buying my first boat. I am still doing research and trying to figure out what I need for a boat.

In preparation for the purchase, I have a few basic questions.

1. How easy is it to get insurance of an older boat (late 1970s - early 80s)?
2. Do you need to have any sailing certifications before you can get insurance? If so, what would it be?
3. When purchasing the boat, who pays for the brokerage fee? Seller/Buyer/or both? What is the typical brokerage fee percentage?

Thank you

1. I had no problems with insurance for a 1979 UFO 34, needed an out of water survey at commencement & every 5 years.

2. Not normally for insurance. May need some sort of certificate by the NSW govt, here in WA need a Receeational Skippers Ticket.

3 the seller pays the brokerage fees.

Ilenart

Thanks Ilenart!

I'll add my experience. Which for Australia is at least ten years dated.

80's yacht

insurance was easy to obtain over the phone but expensive $40 a week. totally comprehensive ( I'm fussy, If I'm in a marina I want full insurance in case I stuff up!!)

qld rego was expensive, qld stamp duty ( tax on the sale) very expensive.

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Hevene said..
Hi all:

I am in the process of buying my first boat. I am still doing research and trying to figure out what I need for a boat.

In preparation for the purchase, I have a few basic questions.

1. How easy is it to get insurance of an older boat (late 1970s - early 80s)?
2. Do you need to have any sailing certifications before you can get insurance? If so, what would it be?
3. When purchasing the boat, who pays for the brokerage fee? Seller/Buyer/or both? What is the typical brokerage fee percentage?

Thank you

1. How easy is it to get insurance of an older boat (late 1970s - early 80s)?

Not difficult, if it is GRP. Some insurers are refusing to insure the cheaper boats. which means that the timber boats (which sell for less) are becoming harder to insure

2. Do you need to have any sailing certifications before you can get insurance? If so, what would it be?

You don't need sailing certifications to get insurance. However you will need a recreational boat license to drive any boat with an engine greater than 6HP (4.5W). As you will need an engine with at least, say, 10HP to push a 28 ft boat along, you will need a recreational boat licence.

Also, you will need a VHF license to operate a VHF radio, and you should not go sailing without one. However, there appears to be little enforcement, and the Water Police would prefer recreational boaters to have a VHF radio and no license than to not have a VHF radio because they don't have a license.

These certifications, then, are more about getting the skills than insurance. However, money spent on getting the skills is money well spent.

3. When purchasing the boat, who pays for the brokerage fee? Seller/Buyer/or both? What is the typical brokerage fee percentage?

Seller pays, which means you pay. I'm not sure of the percentage, but am guessing 10% to 15%.

Finally, I'd recommend that first-timers get an independent professional boat survey - make the sale subject to survey. Slipping and survey will cost the buyer about $1000, but it should tell you if the boat has hidden horrors. If the vendor and broker get twitchy at the prospect of a survey, walk away.

Just my understanding and recent experience of purchasing my first boat, and advice I have been given by my new marina neighbours. I am totally open to correction

no local(ish) reputable insurer will insure a ferro-concrete hulled boat - overseas insurers may, but then wont pay out.

due to circumstances I bought a boat prior to survey and through a private sale.

Only Pantaenius would give me a "cover note" type coverage for 45 days, during which I needed to provide a Survey report and either a Rigging report or a receipt that the rigging was (SS) less than 10 years old, in order for the policy to be valid after that 45 days. - Which i did

Without a broker being paid for on the seller's side ( which adds 10% to the price) - I needed to do my own paperwork and due diligence

1) do a search re any mortgage/credit holds on the boat - cost was $2 on line

2) create a valid sales agreement for signature $0

3) Sight and have signed, the original state registration document on the boat for the CURRENT year.

4) as the boat was also Australian registered, get the forms to transfer that registration and have the seller sign it. ( about $440 lodgement fee) - needed to sail out of Australia

5) transfer deposit and final payment directly into the sellers nominated account - rather than a brokers trust fund. (I got the seller to send me (sms but email will also do) a photo of the bank account statement showing the account name, BSB and account number along with clear instructions as the the amount that was to go in and what for, and the remaining/outstanding balance (if any)

6) have the seller txt/email me their thanks for fully completing the purchase of the boat and all goods and accouterments in and on it.

7) lodge the change of ownership/registration papers - $35)

8) slip and survey $1500)

9)insurance $2000

10) pay the next months Marina berth fees and transfer to my name etc

next is
11) Marine/boat license

12) a 5 day competent crew RYA sailing course ( already booked 5 months ago)

13) VHF radio license

Hope this helps

You've got great answers to your queries from other respondents above.

One other important factor not mentioned so far.
The insurance companies will definitely ask you where you'll be keeping your boat. Make sure you have a answer to this.

Many insurers will not insure boats that are on kept on swing moorings, particularly in certain areas. A small number of insurers still do, although they seem to be getting more particular with things like the age of the boat.

Insurance for boats kept in a marina berth is usually much easier, although the marina themselves may insist on any boat being kept there having full coverage, as opposed to liability only if you were considering that as an option.

If it's a trailer boat that you'll be keeping at home that's pretty much the easiest category of sailboat to get insurance coverage for.

Thank you all for the response! I will look into the fees and taxes for buying a boat in Queensland, which was my preferred purchasing location. But my location is Sydney. If the fees are high, I will probably buy in Sydney and once I am competent, I will sail to Queensland, as I want to sail to the Great Barrier Reef.

I wouldn't be too put off buying a boat in qld.

some excellent advice to follow above!

just be aware of stamp duty/ rego transfer fees

( I got a rude shock at the register counter ??)

I used youi for insurance.Not the cheapest but I was confident they were honest.

id use them again.I doubt anyone will insure a Ferro construction.
it's just not possible. Sad really, I rate the construction!
for myself I felt insurance was important more for other vessels in our travels/ marinas.

accidents do happen and being/trying a responsible skipper involves having the insurance to pay up if something happens.

your not just responsible for your own ship and crew but those around you

in my mind anyway

if uninsured and need to quote a insurance number just use Bunnings tax office number and say it's Suncorp.

I'm reliable advise it works as long you pay cash to those asking ??

While one issue (eg a 1970s vessel) may not stop you be careful not to amass too many strikes against you. The more you have the more difficult and costly it gets, maybe to the point of outright refusal to cover.

Don't ask me how I know the difficulties to insure a 1970, ex commercial trawler that is pole moored in Cairns (ie North of the cyclone belt).

Good luck

hi,
wilderman said "Many insurers will not insure boats that are kept on swing moorings"

So what happens if you cant use a swing mooring? and are we talking about comprehensive insurance or the basics. There seems to be a lot of boats on swing moorings, cant imagine they are not insured.
Can someone expand on that .
T.

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thierry58 said..
hi,
wilderman said "Many insurers will not insure boats that are kept on swing moorings"

So what happens if you cant use a swing mooring? and are we talking about comprehensive insurance or the basics. There seems to be a lot of boats on swing moorings, cant imagine they are not insured.
Can someone expand on that .
T.

Hi, mine is on a swing mooring in Sydney, fully insured and has been for years. No problems to date.

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thierry58 said..
hi,
wilderman said "Many insurers will not insure boats that are kept on swing moorings"

So what happens if you cant use a swing mooring? and are we talking about comprehensive insurance or the basics. There seems to be a lot of boats on swing moorings, cant imagine they are not insured.
Can someone expand on that .
T.

Mine too is on a swing mooring in Lake Macquarie - comprehensive insurance.

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UncleBob said..

thierry58 said..
hi,
wilderman said "Many insurers will not insure boats that are kept on swing moorings"

So what happens if you cant use a swing mooring? and are we talking about comprehensive insurance or the basics. There seems to be a lot of boats on swing moorings, cant imagine they are not insured.
Can someone expand on that .
T.

Hi, mine is on a swing mooring in Sydney, fully insured and has been for years. No problems to date.

It's a matter of shopping around and most insurance companies charge extra to insure on a swing mooring. I shopped around and after going with recommendations from here I went with a broker and had the same policy over a thousand dollars cheaper than club marine.

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saltiest1 said..

UncleBob said..

thierry58 said..
hi,
wilderman said "Many insurers will not insure boats that are kept on swing moorings"

So what happens if you cant use a swing mooring? and are we talking about comprehensive insurance or the basics. There seems to be a lot of boats on swing moorings, cant imagine they are not insured.
Can someone expand on that .
T.

Hi, mine is on a swing mooring in Sydney, fully insured and has been for years. No problems to date.

It's a matter of shopping around and most insurance companies charge extra to insure on a swing mooring. I shopped around and after going with recommendations from here I went with a broker and had the same policy over a thousand dollars cheaper than club marine.

I too found Club Marine/Allianz undesirable...

NRMA gives me confidence that they will pay a legitimate claim. Isn't that why we insure?