Hi folks, I have a small Daydream yacht in the Pittwater and the bilge keeps filling (even when not raining) and it runs down the starter battery which is not great. I bought a Deep Cycle house battery and stuck it on that last week (and disconnected all other electrical devices) and it's drained that as well (and there has been next to no rain this week).

See attached pictures. I'm starting to think I have some type of leak in the hull area or mast base area. Reason I say mast is if you look at the attached pictures the wood near the mast is mouldy which indicates it's wet a lot and I also noticed at the bottom of the mast a small rectangular cut out so I'm wondering if water is somehow coming through that?
The boat would be 20-30 years old and the leaks may be coming directly through the hull but how do you detect where and how do you plug it?

I've sadly enjoyed the bailing out of bilge water but I'm over it now (new to sailing)!!! Also with two batteries (Starter and House) I do not want the bilge pump draining either of them continuously when I connect them in parallel.

The key is water is getting into the bilge even when it's not raining (and draining the battery)

Any ideas to solve would be appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

Howdie Wet Bilge, have you tried licking your fingers while messing with the bilge water? Fresh or salty?

The water will have come in the mast exits where halyards enter, not much chance of stopping it one way would be to wrap the exits you can get to with plastic and tape. Remove the mould from the hull with exit mould ,eucalyptus oil or oil of cloves in a spray bottle diluted with water.

Cut out a new floor board or dry out the old one and repaint it, but is your bilge pump running because the float switch is jammed or not working properly.

All the best a mate of mine sailed one of those Daydream's to South America they are great boats.

All the best

Anthony

Pretty sure it's salty and it also has oil or diesel in it (I think). It has that smell.
If fresh could only be rain or leak from 60 L fresh water tank (I will check it).
Thanks

Hi Anthony, noted on the Exit Mould and Eucalyptus oil. I will give that a burl ASAP. I might plug that small rectangle at the bottom of the mast as well. If it backs up the mast it will only run out the halyard holes and away.

I'm going to cut out a new floor board, raise it a little (20-30 mm)
The bilge pump is set to auto when I leave the boat so it only runs when water gets to a certain level in the bilge. I'm tempted to buy a new one and install to see if that makes a difference. Where is the float switch on the bilge pump?

Good little yacht, enjoying doing it up but this constant water in the bilge and the draining of the batteries is a pain. I need to solve the issue.

Cheers

What sort of engine and drive does it have?
Is there rot where the mast base and hull connect?
Salty it's not rain water you must have a leak somewhere needs attention as it will only get worse.

That's pretty sucky to say the least.

So yeh, first things first, sort out the leaks. How much would be in there if you didn't have the pump onboard at all? The only real way to know for sure would be to pull the boat out, run a moisture sensor over it and see what takes the longest to (or doesn't) dry out. That, of course is $$$$. Probably your best option to find the leaks is to completely empty it and wipe it dry. Then, lay down some paper/cardboard/nappies near each of the areas you suspect, like the mast. Come back after a day and see what's soaked up the water. When you know that, you can decide on what sort of running or permanent repairs you can do.

Now, as for the battery situation, you should be able to rely on the pump not running it down too. I've got the exact same pump as you, a 20ah AGM battery from Whitworths and a tiny 10W solar panel from eBay. I'm going to add a solar controller (more to make it easier to monitor the voltage), but you can do without it to get you started. I picked up mine for about $35 or so.

How long does it take to fill the bilge?
If you have an inboard engine then have you checked the stern gland? Some stern glands are supposed to leak, usually about 1 drip per second. Much more than that and you might need to replace it.

Hi Twodogs

Sole Mini 14
Can't see any rot near the mast base meeting hull area as it's covered by that white rectangle of wood. I might see if I can remove that and have a look.
Salty I believe it is but will double check

Thanks

Thanks Planeray, my comments below inline >>>>. I might go the dry clean and lay down paper/cardboard technique as a way to find out where it's coming from. Looking for low/no $$$ solution if possible.

Planeray
That's pretty sucky to say the least. So yeh, first things first, sort out the leaks. How much would be in there if you didn't have the pump onboard at all? >>> I tried that for a week and it got up high just below the wood floor. Gave me a bit of a shock. Obviously the pump is running a lot to keep water level down and battery is hammered and run down.

The only real way to know for sure would be to pull the boat out, run a moisture sensor over it and see what takes the longest to (or doesn't) dry out. That, of course is $$$$. >>> I'm a tightarse and not a rich man and I'm married with kids and that takes most of the money (sorry self inflicted state of affairs...:(

Probably your best option to find the leaks is to completely empty it and wipe it dry. Then, lay down some paper/cardboard/nappies near each of the areas you suspect, like the mast. Come back after a day and see what's soaked up the water. When you know that, you can decide on what sort of running or permanent repairs you can do. >>> I like the idea of this and I will do it. Might stay in the yacht overnight (floating dog house) to check it during the night as well.

Now, as for the battery situation, you should be able to rely on the pump not running it down too. I've got the exact same pump as you, a 20ah AGM battery from Whitworths and a tiny 10W solar panel from eBay. I'm going to add a solar controller (more to make it easier to monitor the voltage), but you can do without it to get you started. I picked up mine for about $35 or so.>>> I have a 20W solar panel with a phocos 4amp solar controller. It doesn't seem to be able to replenish the battery when it's been drawn down by the AGM bilge pump. This is what is pissing me off as I have the solar panel + controller and still the starter battery can't replenish. Just bought the deep cycle Exide battery (ED50) and connected bilge pump and it also got drained and NOT replenished by the solar panel.

>>>>Not sure if I have an electrical problem. I have also bought an ACR and new switch to connect starter/deep cycle battery but need a good marine sparkie to do it for me. Do you, or anyone know a good reputable, none rip off merchant marine sparkie in the Pittwater area who could put that together for me?

Thanks

Thanks and noted Muzz on the stern gland. Not sure what it is or what it looks like but I will find it and check.

Where the shaft goes through the hull at the back area of the boat there is some water but not much and it doesn't fill up much. It is higher than the bilge and I'm sure no water flows from that area down to bilge area as there are separating wood slats.
Will check it though.

Thanks

If you haven't already got solar charching, buy a cheap 15 amp solar panel and connect it to the battery. That will trickle charge the battery and should keep the battery charged.

MLCHereICOME, I have a used one of these www.trektransponder.com.au for sale with a float switch attached. It will warn you if your batteries get low or bilge fills.

When I bought my Martzcraft 35 it had the same problem so I designed (my business) an SMS alarm that would tell me before I ruined my next set of batteries. (After I ruined my second set of AGM's actually). It became the product above and saved me a lot of $$$ in ruined batteries/bilge pumps/stress. Send me a message if you would like to get it. Im in Parramatta.

You can try, it SMS the word status to my boat trek in Pittwater on 0431 935 720 and wait 30 seconds or so for reply.

BTW, to find where my leaks were when the bilge is full of water back then I poured in little streams of food colouring. Then I could see the currents in the water. Also when everything was dry I painted things with water colour paint. The when it started to get damp I could see it immediately by running droplet marks in the paint.

Another leak detection idea is talc powder.

I would start with the very basics , find all your thru hulls and make sure the hoses have double clamps and are not leaking at the hull end , Follow the hose to check its condition and make sure the other end is ok . Some times when a stop cock is turned off it will still leak so don't assume it actually works . Diesel inboard check all hoses and clamps, stern gland is a possability as mentioned , you can nip them up to stop dripping when you leave the boat but make sure it drips when you are motoring or it can stuff the shaft. , rudder tube if it has one may have a pin hole in it ( the underwater uneadit epoxy will fix that for a while ) pretty much any thing with a hole to below the waterline Should be checked . I did these things when I got my boat and got some nasty surprises . But now you have all our attention let us know what it was , happy hunting

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MLCHereICOME said..
Thanks and noted Muzz on the stern gland. Not sure what it is or what it looks like but I will find it and check.

Where the shaft goes through the hull at the back area of the boat there is some water but not much and it doesn't fill up much. It is higher than the bilge and I'm sure no water flows from that area down to bilge area as there are separating wood slats.
Will check it though.

Thanks

You're in the right area, the stern gland is where the prop shaft goes from your gearbox and into a tube. Some are greased and some are water lubricated. The water lubricated ones must drip. They slowly wear into an oval shape due to the engine torque. That's when they need replacing. You can tell when they need replacing as there will be a knocking sound when running the engine. i.e. the prop shaft is rattling.

If it is leaking that much you will be able to see it trickle into the bilge. It will be easy to find, 30 minutes of looking you'll see it so follow the trickle.
If salty it will most likely be from:
A inlet. Turn them all off every time you leave the boat. Put your engine key near the engine sea cock.
The stern gland.
The engine cooling system. As I say, turn the cock off.
The final option would be through the hull. Not likely unless it is a timber hull, but if it is it needs to be fixed.
Putting more electrical power in is the wrong answer but one most have considered.

Hi Trek, just did your SMS test and I like it. I can see how this would take the stress out of things. Will get in contact ASAP.

Noted on the food colouring and water colour paint. I might give the water colour technique a go to spot the leak. If they leak if via the hull somewhere, and slow, what is the best way to plug it? Is there paint out there that can seal it over? Fibreglass (it's a fibreglass yacht)?

Thanks

Noted on the Talc powder Slamming. Will keep that in mind.

Oldboy, great tips and I will follow up and check and confirm. Being new to boating/yachts it's such a learning curve. I'm slightly enjoying it but this one (leak) is really annoying me and I don't want to stuff up my batteries. I need to know I can turn up and start the motor when I plan a day out.

I will thoroughly go over all the below water entry points and sea cocks etc... If that yields nothing I will try Trek's water colour paint trick on a dry floor.

Thanks

Thanks Muzz (stern gland). Mine must be greased as there is some type of grease gun connected up to it. Great to know the difference.
Learning something all the time.

Cheers

Hi Morning Bird, I think I have to get all the water out, dry it all with a towel and sit and watch it until I see the leak.
All sea cocks I turn off when I leave (engine cooling sea water, 2 for toilet). Only other entry point could be the stern gland and I'll dry it and watch it.
Think I need a whole day and night in the boat to find it and nail it.
It's a fibreglass hull but I have noticed in the bilge area a red/rusty colour in some parts of the floor paint. Not sure what that means but will confirm.

Thanks for your advice.

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MLCHereICOME said...
Hi Morning Bird, I think I have to get all the water out, dry it all with a towel and sit and watch it until I see the leak.
All sea cocks I turn off when I leave (engine cooling sea water, 2 for toilet). Only other entry point could be the stern gland and I'll dry it and watch it.
Think I need a whole day and night in the boat to find it and nail it.
It's a fibreglass hull but I have noticed in the bilge area a red/rusty colour in some parts of the floor paint. Not sure what that means but will confirm.

Thanks for your advice.

I had a Duncanson 26 years ago which leaked like yours. Unfortunately mine was intermittent. I sat looking for an hour with no sign of water. I'd leave the boat and come back a week later with water in the bilge. It was the stern gland. It filled a space away from the main bilge and then overflowed into the main bilge. Took ages to find it. Water in one part of the boat can be coming in a long way away.
MB has some rain leaks through various toe rail screws etc. Because they drip somewhere else, usually where your head is while trying to get some sleep at sea, they are hard to find and annoying.
Rain leaks won't sink it but salt water leaks will. Repair the leak, a pump is not the answer.

"It was the stern gland. It filled a space away from the main bilge and then overflowed into the main bilge."

This might be it MB. I can see water constantly in that stern gland area. Always a pool of water but I did not think it could overflow down into the bilge area. I pump it out of there manually once a month or so. There is a middle area under the Sole mini 14 engine where the water cascades first and from there it has to get over a wood slat separator and down into the main bilge area where the pump gets flogged and drains the battery. Yes you are right...fix the leak first.

It's (stern gland) is the only real through hull entry point for salt water so that could be it. Will check on the weekend.

Thanks mate.

regards

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MLCHereICOME said...
"It was the stern gland. It filled a space away from the main bilge and then overflowed into the main bilge."

This might be it MB. I can see water constantly in that stern gland area. Always a pool of water but I did not think it could overflow down into the bilge area. I pump it out of there manually once a month or so. There is a middle area under the Sole mini 14 engine where the water cascades first and from there it has to get over a wood slat separator and down into the main bilge area where the pump gets flogged and drains the battery. Yes you are right...fix the leak first.

It's (stern gland) is the only real through hull entry point for salt water so that could be it. Will check on the weekend.

Thanks mate.

regards

Where in Pittwater are you? MB is in Salt Pan Cove, if you are near we could meet up to see if we can sort it out.

Clareville just around the corner.
Going there tomorrow (Saturday) after lunch (12-4pm) and next week during the week.
MB give me a ring 0438 648 875 if you want to meet there and have a look.
Appreciate any help.

Paul

The reason I asked about the motor is stern gland would say that it would be the first place to look.
Then through hull fittings if you have a log look at it.
Are you sure it is solid glass not glass over ply? As the ply can rot inside the glass layers.
You now have some ideas where to check

I just saw the kind of bilge pump you have in photo.

Make sure it turns OFF when the bilge is pumped out. I have the same kind and after a while growth gets on the sensor that stays wet when the water is all drained out. This makes the pump think the bilge is still wet and the pump keeps endlessly going ... till flat battery and/or the impeller in the pump breaks off.

After replacing it three times I figured it out. You have to keep the sensor area of the pump clean and growth free.

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MLCHereICOME said..
Hi Morning Bird, I think I have to get all the water out, dry it all with a towel and sit and watch it until I see the leak.
All sea cocks I turn off when I leave (engine cooling sea water, 2 for toilet). Only other entry point could be the stern gland and I'll dry it and watch it.
Think I need a whole day and night in the boat to find it and nail it.
It's a fibreglass hull but I have noticed in the bilge area a red/rusty colour in some parts of the floor paint. Not sure what that means but will confirm.

Thanks for your advice.

The seacocks can fail internally but there still should not be any leaks if you have rubber hose tails. If you have plastic hoses however you can have leaks as the plastic hardens and hose clamps can not tighten up.

The mould around the mast base could be from condensation. Salt water leaking in from the the stern gland evaporates and forms on the underside of the cabin as fresh water then drops down onto that timber bit as freshwater. If it was salt water it would not have mould.

I would wipe all the suspect areas dry and use talcum powder. I would also check the area behind the stern gland where it attaches to the stern tube, the stern tube may have corroded and the water is both sides of the tube. This depends on what style of stern gland set up you have and I can only presume its the original set up.

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twodogs1969 said..
The reason I asked about the motor is stern gland would say that it would be the first place to look.
Then through hull fittings if you have a log look at it.
Are you sure it is solid glass not glass over ply? As the ply can rot inside the glass layers.
You now have some ideas where to check

Hi twodogs, noted on stern gland and will be checking it first thing tomorrow.
Not sure if fully fibreglass or FG over ply. Not sure how to check for that?
Thanks for the tips mate.

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Ramona said..

MLCHereICOME said..
Hi Morning Bird, I think I have to get all the water out, dry it all with a towel and sit and watch it until I see the leak.
All sea cocks I turn off when I leave (engine cooling sea water, 2 for toilet). Only other entry point could be the stern gland and I'll dry it and watch it.
Think I need a whole day and night in the boat to find it and nail it.
It's a fibreglass hull but I have noticed in the bilge area a red/rusty colour in some parts of the floor paint. Not sure what that means but will confirm.

Thanks for your advice.

The seacocks can fail internally but there still should not be any leaks if you have rubber hose tails. If you have plastic hoses however you can have leaks as the plastic hardens and hose clamps can not tighten up.

The mould around the mast base could be from condensation. Salt water leaking in from the the stern gland evaporates and forms on the underside of the cabin as fresh water then drops down onto that timber bit as freshwater. If it was salt water it would not have mould.

I would wipe all the suspect areas dry and use talcum powder. I would also check the area behind the stern gland where it attaches to the stern tube, the stern tube may have corroded and the water is both sides of the tube. This depends on what style of stern gland set up you have and I can only presume its the original set up.

Romana noted on all 3 points.

I think the middle point about the condensation from water coming in from stern gland might be part of the problem. I have seen water on the ceiling just above the mast and it drops down on the wood. Mind you that was when it was lightly raining but I double checked all around the mast entry point to cabin (on deck) and found no way the rain water could get in. I will check it.

Appreciate the tips.