Hi everyone,

as you can tell I'm new to this forum and to sailing in general...

I have used the search button to get me started and any input from your experiences would be great.
I want to buy a blue water cruiser that can accommodate two adults a 11yo pre-teen and a dog.

I have given myself a time line of about three years to get my sea legs in sailing as I would love to reach a potential of crossing the seas which has been a drive of mine since I was a teen. I have owned powered boats and sailed only a few times on my friends trailer sail boat. Two years ago I bought a Hobie cat/kayak with sail that got speeds up to 10 knots and have loved this to the point I want to go to the next step into cruising. My funds are around the $40k mark and have been looking at boats between 35-40ft.
Look I'm new to this so all your opinions would be appreciated, from hulls type, boat makers, training modules, clubs etc all is new to me. I think the most important thing to me is safety to some degree as I'm fully aware of the dangers of the sea and how quickly things go pear shape on the water.

Once again thanks knock yourselves out with your experiences and Hardware inputs as all is great information to us.

Thanks Jorge

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jorgef said..

I think the most important thing to me is safety (full stop), as I'm fully aware of the dangers of the sea and how quickly things go pear shape on the water.

Thanks Jorge

Hi jorgef.. Welcome to the forum and into the sailing world. There are many, many people on this site better suited to answer your specific questions, but I did help you out a little correction on your post...

Welcome to the forum jorgef,

There are a number of people on here with varying levels of experience and knowledge. I am sure you will get many queries answered.

I notice in your profile that you are an experienced 4wd'er. Sailing is something similar in that you generally get back as much as you put into it and what may look like a bargain can be very expensive in the long run. Preparation cannot be underestimated.

Probably a good bit of advise, if you haven't already done it, is to visit your local yacht club and inquire about crewing on a boat. Theres always a boat looking for crew and it is the quickest way to pick up the basics (and more) of sailing.

Apart from other ways to learn, have a look at YouTube, there are some great tutorials on there and If you use a smart phone or tablet there are some really great apps that you will find useful both in learning and in practice.

Your starting out on a very rewarding journey. Have fun and enjoy it.

I see from your bio you live in Bowral. Any plans yet where you intend to keep this vessel. I reside in Greenwell Point and I am about the place most of the time. Have a look at the Facebook page Greenwell Point Yachts.

Personally I would up your budget to $100k and have 20k for future expenses .....a 40k 40 footer may not be suitable with a child /dog /wife but it could be possible with the right boat ,skills and family

Thank you everyone for this...

Romona thanks yes will look this up I take my yak to Illawarra and STGeorge basin for a sail often and I was looking somewhere in Nowra even as far down as Ulladulla if needed but Greenwell point is closer to me will look this up Thanks.

Toph thanks for the edit "full stop" agree... yet when dealing with the sea she can be vicious and can turn on you just when you think its smooth sailing.


Southace... 100Gs plus 20g to get started hope not cause I cant afford that... seen some on yachthub that are moderately priced I'll keep on searching

Thanks again

I really don't wont to spoil your dreams but I'm only talking through experience after cruising for a few years in a 37 footer With girlfriends and solo ,And watching and dreaming with the boat market for 20 years. Post your moderately priced yachts here so we can comment.

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jorgef said..
My funds are around the $40k mark and have been looking at boats between 35-40ft.

I believe you could buy well within that criteria.

Do not be in a hurry to buy. There is an oversupply of yachts in Australia.

Do your research on different designs of yacht and try to get sailing on as many different yachts as you can.

These are a great yacht and well worth your consideration.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/OAG-AD-459638/1982-NORTHSHORE-33?

something like this with work added on

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/potgeiter-36/158201

what about this fixer upper???
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cairns-4870/sail-boats/32ft-miller-and-whitworth-ben-lexcen-must-sell-within-this-week/1071980340
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/redcliffe/sail-boats/john-pugh-moonwind-motor-sailer-/1073215217

This looked like a clean boat www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/parramatta-park/sail-boats/steel-cruiser-long-keel/1073591209

I like this one needs new rigging whats your thoughts on this for example...
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/labrador/sail-boats/38ft-norman-wright-yacht-11-6m-fiber-glass/1062477518


Tri vessel...
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sydney-city/sail-boats/trimaran-26ft-2008-custom-built-pocket-cruiser/1073694276

Thanks for taking the time

I agree with Cisco.
You don't need a small fortune to go sailing. If it were me, I would consider downsizing to 32/35 ft.
There is a plethora of reasonably priced boats in this price range of all designs. The magic is in taking your time and doing your research. This was discussed very recently in the forum.
There is a lot of junk and overpriced boats out there. Be prepared to be disappointed in your search but above all, be patient,. You will find something worth while. There are some decent boats out there in the mid 30 to mid 40k range.
The hardest part of looking for a boat when you don't live close to a larger city is the distance you often have to travel just to look at something. When I was looking for my last boat I gave a private seller a torrent of abuse after driving 700km to look at a pile of rubbish. The photo's he posted on the net with the advertisement were 30 years old. The funny thing was, he couldnt see why I was upset. I ended up purchasing a boat 1100km from home after 8 months of looking.

Agree with you both Cisco and Franrick...

research and getting onto some boats is the key to all this taking my time as I said I have a 3 year time line that is 50th Bday...

so looking into all this including tri boats are these blue water and are they troublesome etc all this I want to look into.

Newer boats are that better designed I ave found out and more responsive on the water again I know people will have their own opinions due the experience they have had.

I will be patient and learn but the more you get into something the spirit starts to grow restless...

Think my first stop will be to get on as crew and learn so if anybody in Nowra, Sydney, Wollongong area needs the decks scrubbed let me know.

Thanks

Before you lover yourself to that, contact me if you wish, l think l can give you some guidance.
I am actively racing in Sydney and got my own yacht.

Jorge,
The problem most newcomers have is buying the wrong vessel. The market is flat and always will be. I know there is a thread here about the market for used boats improving but that is just well priced boats selling. We don't know what the price was these boats actually changed hands for but I know people are offering up to 40% off and getting taken up. New boats are being built locally and imported and all those old fibreglass yachts are still here from the boom period of the '70's. They are likely to be here forever, no one seems to know the life of a fibreglass yacht. They are costly to scrap and the hulls are extremely hard to destroy. Unlike steel boats which have a limited life and its fairly easy to calculate their time. Steel will always have a scrap value of about $80 a ton so they do get carted away.
We have had several threads on this subject and I think you will find they pretty much suit your situation. I would suggest the Cole 35 as the largest boat you should consider. I notice the one in Queensland is still for sale http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/bounty-35-sloop/160456.

What I would suggest you do first though is either visit or join the Cruising yacht club of Jervis Bay or take your kayak down to Callala Bay and have a wander through the moorings. Talk to some of the owners, there are nearly always some one hanging about. Good selection of yachts that will give you an idea of actually how big a 40 footer is and the size of the gear you and your wife will have to manipulate. Another trip up Currambene creek at Huskison and view the yachts there and also the industrial park there and look at the yachts on the hardstanding. Notice how few of the yachts over 35 feet actually ever leave their moorings!

I would personally start with a cheap boat off eBay and moor it locally. Use it as waterfront accommodation 1 1/2 hours drive from Bowral and sail that around to gain experience and then decide what boat you really want or need. It will give you an idea on maintenance and just how much the rest of the family really share your dream! Then on sell it on eBay. That way you don't end up having a heap of money tied up in something that's extremely hard to sell on if things don't work out. This would be my choice, I'm trying to get my son to buy it! www.ebay.com.au/itm/Supersonic-27ft-fiberglass-production-yacht-ocean-going-sailing-boat-No-Reserve-/161639365034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item25a274f9aa
For a smaller boat but ready to go. www.ebay.com.au/itm/131460418621?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
It's a lot smaller inside but will give the family a chance to get to know each other.
Going by the selection you have above your all over the place at the moment and I would suggest you talk to someone face to face. The mooring next to me has just been bought by a bloke in Moss Vale who has just bought a Pugh motorsailer similar to the one in your link.

Thanks Ramona great suggestions and will follow these up. Your right all those suggestions are all over the place its just proves what you say there is a lot of choice and will take my time. How much is a mooring at Greenwell point going for at the moment?

Thanks Sirgalavant think I will take you up on your offer I'll pm you.

Hi Jorge
There is a really nice compass 43 ft for sale in my bay I have watched this boat for a long time and it is perfect for what you want as it has cruised before and is a good solid sea boat. Belonged to an old salt who has departed our shores I think it is with austwide yachts sales.
Good boat a bit of TLC and away you go. Looks a bit down at heal but that is because it needs some love. Reckon you could get it in the $30ks but who knows a silly offer may get it. it has been around for a while.

Cheers and good luck
Hugo

Thanks Hugo,

where about is that boat advertised? couldn't find it in austwide yacht sales

Thanks Jorge

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Ramona said..
Jorge,
The problem most newcomers have is buying the wrong vessel. The market is flat and always will be. I know there is a thread here about the market for used boats improving but that is just well priced boats selling. We don't know what the price was these boats actually changed hands for but I know people are offering up to 40% off and getting taken up. New boats are being built locally and imported and all those old fibreglass yachts are still here from the boom period of the '70's. They are likely to be here forever, no one seems to know the life of a fibreglass yacht. They are costly to scrap and the hulls are extremely hard to destroy. Unlike steel boats which have a limited life and its fairly easy to calculate their time. Steel will always have a scrap value of about $80 a ton so they do get carted away.
We have had several threads on this subject and I think you will find they pretty much suit your situation. I would suggest the Cole 35 as the largest boat you should consider. I notice the one in Queensland is still for sale http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/bounty-35-sloop/160456.

What I would suggest you do first though is either visit or join the Cruising yacht club of Jervis Bay or take your kayak down to Callala Bay and have a wander through the moorings. Talk to some of the owners, there are nearly always some one hanging about. Good selection of yachts that will give you an idea of actually how big a 40 footer is and the size of the gear you and your wife will have to manipulate. Another trip up Currambene creek at Huskison and view the yachts there and also the industrial park there and look at the yachts on the hardstanding. Notice how few of the yachts over 35 feet actually ever leave their moorings!

I would personally start with a cheap boat off eBay and moor it locally. Use it as waterfront accommodation 1 1/2 hours drive from Bowral and sail that around to gain experience and then decide what boat you really want or need. It will give you an idea on maintenance and just how much the rest of the family really share your dream! Then on sell it on eBay. That way you don't end up having a heap of money tied up in something that's extremely hard to sell on if things don't work out. This would be my choice, I'm trying to get my son to buy it! www.ebay.com.au/itm/Supersonic-27ft-fiberglass-production-yacht-ocean-going-sailing-boat-No-Reserve-/161639365034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item25a274f9aa
For a smaller boat but ready to go. www.ebay.com.au/itm/131460418621?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
It's a lot smaller inside but will give the family a chance to get to know each other.
Going by the selection you have above your all over the place at the moment and I would suggest you talk to someone face to face. The mooring next to me has just been bought by a bloke in Moss Vale who has just bought a Pugh motorsailer similar to the one in your link.

Sound advice. id be following it. This is exactly what I've done. Bought a cheap as chips boat, used her heaps, slept on her, got to know her, worked on her and decided that sailing life is for me.

Hello gorgef, not trying to put you off the dream but when searching for your boat and you find one that suits your funds, be aware that if you decide that you can fix up some of the things later, the costs can really start to add up. Below is a quick $75,000 that you may incur with a 40 footer.

Try to keep looking for a boat that someone has already done the work on so you don't have to. Buying a big boat that needs work could result in you never realising your dream of blue water sailing due to financial restraints. For me, nearly every job I start on the boat seems to get bigger and cost more than first anticipated and I'm sure I'm not Robinson Crusoe (well maybe Crusoe) with regard to this quirk.

And then there are the ongoing costs, like mooring/marina/antifouling/insurance/engine service/general maintenance that you need to factor into boat ownership.

Cheers . (Yeah, also get the misses involved with the purchase so it's a joint project with commitment/ownership from boat parties)

Anchor Winch $3,000
Wind Generator $2,000
Life raft $2,500
Paint Job - Complete Exterior $20,000
Water Maker $6,000
Inverter $500
Sails - Main and Genoa $5,000
Deck Hardware $4,000
Tender $1,000
Outboard $1,000
Ground Tackle $1,500
Electronics $7,000
Paper Charts $500
Electronic charts $300
Replace Batteries & Charger $2,000
Toilet & Holding Tank etc $2,000
Targa & Davits $10,000
Update Safety Gear $500
Electric Auto Pilot $1,200
Wind Steering gear $4,000

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Crusoe said..
Hello gorgef, not trying to put you off the dream but when searching for your boat and you find one that suits your funds, be aware that if you decide that you can fix up some of the things later, the costs can really start to add up. Below is a quick $75,000 that you may incur with a 40 footer.

Try to keep looking for a boat that someone has already done the work on so you don't have to. Buying a big boat that needs work could result in you never realising your dream of blue water sailing due to financial restraints. For me, nearly every job I start on the boat seems to get bigger and cost more than first anticipated and I'm sure I'm not Robinson Crusoe (well maybe Crusoe) with regard to this quirk.

And then there are the ongoing costs, like mooring/marina/antifouling/insurance/engine service/general maintenance that you need to factor into boat ownership.

Cheers . (Yeah, also get the misses involved with the purchase so it's a joint project with commitment/ownership from boat parties)

Anchor Winch $3,000
Wind Generator $2,000
Life raft $2,500
Paint Job - Complete Exterior $20,000
Water Maker $6,000
Inverter $500
Sails - Main and Genoa $5,000
Deck Hardware $4,000
Tender $1,000
Outboard $1,000
Ground Tackle $1,500
Electronics $7,000
Paper Charts $500
Electronic charts $300
Replace Batteries & Charger $2,000
Toilet & Holding Tank etc $2,000
Targa & Davits $10,000
Update Safety Gear $500
Electric Auto Pilot $1,200
Wind Steering gear $4,000

thanks Crusoe well as you can see been sitting here with the laptop doing some research and reading other forums... since my wife has agreed to this I cant leave it alone... we just got back from tassie 5 weeks 4wding through Tassie amazing wilderness and crossed the straight on the spirit with 5m waves awesome.. last week Bendethra camping and caving so the feel of adventure runs thick in me even PPG Powered Paraglinding... but this venture has been with me since a child when my first outing was on a fishing trawler out of Ulladulla, I have owned powered boats Haines Hunter and Savage and currently my Hobie Ti that has helped get me to what I want to do today ...

I will take my time Ramona suggestions makes sense as do others with all their knowledge...

and one thing I have always done is that fit outs and gear stuff can be done outside the conventional way not going down the path of the shopping list you scared me with knowing these figures are just a taste of things to come, there is always a means to an end things can be refurbished etc and not saying this is always the case.


3 year journey has begun thanks

I started mine three year journey 12 months ago would would not dare look at the receipts its like having a beer on a hot day oh lets have another one
Or As Cisco said to me 12 months ago B.O.A.T.
B= bring
O= on
A=another
T= maybe a thousand maybe ten thousand real easy

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Crusoe said..
Hello gorgef, not trying to put you off the dream but when searching for your boat and you find one that suits your funds, be aware that if you decide that you can fix up some of the things later, the costs can really start to add up. Below is a quick $75,000 that you may incur with a 40 footer.

Try to keep looking for a boat that someone has already done the work on so you don't have to. Buying a big boat that needs work could result in you never realising your dream of blue water sailing due to financial restraints. For me, nearly every job I start on the boat seems to get bigger and cost more than first anticipated and I'm sure I'm not Robinson Crusoe (well maybe Crusoe) with regard to this quirk.

And then there are the ongoing costs, like mooring/marina/antifouling/insurance/engine service/general maintenance that you need to factor into boat ownership.

Cheers . (Yeah, also get the misses involved with the purchase so it's a joint project with commitment/ownership from boat parties)

Anchor Winch $3,000
Wind Generator $2,000
Life raft $2,500
Paint Job - Complete Exterior $20,000
Water Maker $6,000
Inverter $500
Sails - Main and Genoa $5,000
Deck Hardware $4,000
Tender $1,000
Outboard $1,000
Ground Tackle $1,500
Electronics $7,000
Paper Charts $500
Electronic charts $300
Replace Batteries & Charger $2,000
Toilet & Holding Tank etc $2,000
Targa & Davits $10,000
Update Safety Gear $500
Electric Auto Pilot $1,200
Wind Steering gear $4,000

Some of these costs , namely the painting sound like they got done by someone else. this being the case you're gonna pay the maximum.
If you can DIY You can save a fortune. Personally i wouldn't have it any other way. Not only do you save a few bob, but you also learn your boat inside and out. I do the same with my motorbike, that does a lot of kilometres.
No mechanic comes near it.
I did my hull over a weekend with help from a mate. total cost was about $700 for a weekend slip, including paint.
Mine is only 22 footer. Id never pay anyone to paint my boat - regardless of the size. I may pay some back packers to help me sand though and maybe primer/undercoat.
All those years working in ship yards, deep inside some hull, engine rooms etc have paid off.
I love working on my boat.
Currently I'm sanding bit by bit and painting the deck/cabin exterior bit by bit on the mooring. Ill have the whole top done before i slip for anti fouling. then ill paint the top sides while antifouling.
Brand new sails and brand new paint job all inclusive for $5000.
Brand new boat.

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Sectorsteve said..

Crusoe said..
Hello gorgef, not trying to put you off the dream but when searching for your boat and you find one that suits your funds, be aware that if you decide that you can fix up some of the things later, the costs can really start to add up. Below is a quick $75,000 that you may incur with a 40 footer.

Try to keep looking for a boat that someone has already done the work on so you don't have to. Buying a big boat that needs work could result in you never realising your dream of blue water sailing due to financial restraints. For me, nearly every job I start on the boat seems to get bigger and cost more than first anticipated and I'm sure I'm not Robinson Crusoe (well maybe Crusoe) with regard to this quirk.

And then there are the ongoing costs, like mooring/marina/antifouling/insurance/engine service/general maintenance that you need to factor into boat ownership.

Cheers . (Yeah, also get the misses involved with the purchase so it's a joint project with commitment/ownership from boat parties)

Anchor Winch $3,000
Wind Generator $2,000
Life raft $2,500
Paint Job - Complete Exterior $20,000
Water Maker $6,000
Inverter $500
Sails - Main and Genoa $5,000
Deck Hardware $4,000
Tender $1,000
Outboard $1,000
Ground Tackle $1,500
Electronics $7,000
Paper Charts $500
Electronic charts $300
Replace Batteries & Charger $2,000
Toilet & Holding Tank etc $2,000
Targa & Davits $10,000
Update Safety Gear $500
Electric Auto Pilot $1,200
Wind Steering gear $4,000

Some of these costs , namely the painting sound like they got done by someone else. this being the case you're gonna pay the maximum.
If you can DIY You can save a fortune. Personally i wouldn't have it any other way. Not only do you save a few bob, but you also learn your boat inside and out. I do the same with my motorbike, that does a lot of kilometres.
No mechanic comes near it.
I did my hull over a weekend with help from a mate. total cost was about $700 for a weekend slip, including paint.
Mine is only 22 footer. Id never pay anyone to paint my boat - regardless of the size. I may pay some back packers to help me sand though and maybe primer/undercoat.
All those years working in ship yards, deep inside some hull, engine rooms etc have paid off.
I love working on my boat.
Currently I'm sanding bit by bit and painting the deck/cabin exterior bit by bit on the mooring. Ill have the whole top done before i slip for anti fouling. then ill paint the top sides while antifouling.
Brand new sails and brand new paint job all inclusive for $5000.
Brand new boat.

yep agree Sectosteve that what I was referring too about refurbish I'm a DYI person house 4wd 12volt system in caravan and tug and solar mppt etc so most things work I will do myself only way to learn... yet I have friends that wont do up a screw... I'm fortunate I have good set of tools compressors welder etc that make light work... its just the start of my learning curve and youtube can be your friend

well you're all set then!
if we were squillionaires then maybe pay someone else to do the work on our super yachts but we are'nt!
I find painting really satisfying. sanding, primer and undercoat not so fun but when you see the first few top coats go on and you're using really good paint(i use international) the hard work doing all that prep pays off. i love the shiny gleam that a good paint job will do. i only tip and roll and you wouldn't tell the difference between a spray job or my tip and rolling.

My boat is at the point where it needs to be painted its getting that bad. I suppose after that ill take more care of that paint job by using a sun cover.
We;'re talking about a boat that cost me 2500 though so I'm kinda indifferent to painting it, however I'm lucky as Ive got lots of paint. The only thing that costs me is time masking tape, rollers, brushes , etc.

Sectorsteve,

I agree with your comment that you can save money by doing things yourself. BUT, I thnk that you may not understand the cost increases that come with a bigger boat. Jorgef is talking 35-40ft.

For example, you estimate sails + paint for $5,000. I bought a new main and jib for my 37 foot boat 5 years ago. Straight cuut sails, cruising cloth etc. All up cost $6k.

Another example, anit foul for $700. For my last anti foul lift and hardstand costs alone were over $700.

There are a number of Crusoe's costs that I think are low, ie autopilot for $1,200. Once the boat is larger than about 37 feet you will need a full, below deck autopilot. That will cost considerably more, even doing the work yourself.

Yes you can sail for less, but Joergef wants to "cross the seas", so we need to be realistic about the cost of that.

My advice would be to start smaller, get some boat handling and maintenance / management skills and work up form there.

spot on. most of those costs are needed items. auto pilot, charts, electronics etc. Theres no do it yourself way to get that stuff. you gotta buy it unless you can make it yourself :)
i think the way to go is what most people are saying here and thats to start small, get your sea legs and if it doesn't work out you have invested much, so its all good.
Paints very expensive. Im lucky though as i get it for $0.

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jorgef said..
Thanks Ramona great suggestions and will follow these up. Your right all those suggestions are all over the place its just proves what you say there is a lot of choice and will take my time. How much is a mooring at Greenwell point going for at the moment?

Thanks Sirgalavant think I will take you up on your offer I'll pm you.

I can organize a loaner mooring for you or sell a cheapy though to a $2000 new mooring that was used briefly for a 60 ton steely. You are only buying the machinery though, you have to add the MSB fees on top of that. The actual fees depend on the size of the vessel. Pensioners like me also only pay 50%.

There is no waiting list here and you can lay a mooring yourself if you like after paying the appropriate fees.

hey Jorgef have a look at the northshore 33

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jorgef said..
Hi everyone,

as you can tell I'm new to this forum and to sailing in general...

What ever you do, do not buy a fixerupper.

Buy a yacht that is in regular use and ready to go. You are going to spend a fortune on it anyway with maintenance and setting it up to suit your purposes.

Take up sirgallivant's kind and generous offer to go sailing with him. He has an excellent yacht which is of a design and quality standard you should look for.

Word of warning, do not fall in love with his yacht and want one the same. They are few and far between.

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cisco said..

jorgef said..
Hi everyone,

as you can tell I'm new to this forum and to sailing in general...

What ever you do, do not buy a fixerupper.

Buy a yacht that is in regular use and ready to go. You are going to spend a fortune on it anyway with maintenance and setting it up to suit your purposes.

Take up sirgallivant's kind and generous offer to go sailing with him. He has an excellent yacht which is of a design and quality standard you should look for.

Word of warning, do not fall in love with his yacht and want one the same. They are few and far between.

yeah agree about the fixer upper it looks more expensive in the long run...

I will be getting in touch with sirgallivant that offer is very generous and cant keep a promise of not falling in love but you cant always get what you want...

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jorgef said..

I will be getting in touch with sirgallivant that offer is very generous and cant keep a promise of not falling in love but you cant always get what you want...

As you say....................

exactly... but it doesn't mean you haven't tried...