I guess most of you yachties on the east coast have negotiated many bar crossings.
I have only gone across about half a dozen, so I'm pretty new to it.
Yesterday we crossed the bar at Port MacQuarie and we were even sideways for a bit!

Not having been to any of these places along the east coast, I called Marine Rescue Port Mac for an update on the bar and was told that there's not much swell and it's all good, just follow the sector light in.
We had just sailed up from Camden Haven that afternoon and I knew there was plenty of swell up to at least 3m. I mentioned to the guy that I could see waves breaking and he said you need to be further north, follow the lights in and (this bit made me laugh) good luck.

Anyhow, knowing what little I do about bar crossings and our lifejackets dutifully fastened, we gunned the big Perkins up to 7 knots or so. As I had read, once you commit to crossing, don't second guess, don't pull out, leave the auto pilot on as it will react better than yourself.
It was at this point we saw a large wave breaking further out and we expected it to die off as it hit what we thought was deeper water, yeah, nah.
The wave - well it was more like a large swell that had broken than something out of "Big Wednesday" struck us just forward of the port quarter and proceeded to cause us to broach.
I managed to get back on course, (but by this stage the sector light was red) and motor into the channel much to the amusement of several onlookers standing on the southern breakwater.
We had some water over and into the cockpit, nothing too major but it did make me think what I could've done better.

1) First and foremost, I wouldn't have been in that predicament if I had waited until that set of waves had gone through and gone in between sets.

2) I would've seen the wave coming down on us and timed a turn to starboard to try and counter the broaching effect. Ray (my auto pilot) does a great job, but I don't know about the advice I read which stated to leave the auto pilot on instead of steering yourself.

3) The low tide was 1400hrs. The bible of cruising the east coast states the best time to enter is the third or fourth hour of a rising tide. Going into a place for the first time into a setting sun at 1700hrs concerned me a little so we went in a little early at 1630hrs. once we got into the channel, there appeared to be minimal overflow causing the swell to stand up. So I don't know if that contributed to our problem too much.

Anyway, lessons learnt without any damage or injury, a few beers later calmed the nerves.

Don't know about anyone else but I like the last two hours of the rising tide and even at the top of the tide there will always be an overrun.

Autopilots are great but keep in mind that they are reactive, not proactive. They respond to what is or has happened, not what you know is about to happen, so for myself I hand steer over a bar.

Just saying.

First lesson. The vast majority of Marine Rescue operators are not boaties let alone yachties. Of the 60-70 at Terrey Hills when I was volunteering there only about 5 had set foot on a small boat. None were experienced yachties.
They are specifically trained not to tell you whether a bar is safe or not, just to read the report to you.
Take their advice, as well meaning as it usually is, at your peril.

The bar at port is probably shallower than it has ever been at the moment!
Currently any swell over 1.5m will produce the odd wave out there even on the run in tide
The sector light is a rough guide but if there is any sort of swell you are far better to continue further north (green zone ) and
then run in at more acute angle towards the north wall keeping a close eye on the swell coming from the port side
should give you time to take whatever evasive action you deem
When the swell is from the south it can be hard to spot any sets coming but there are some indicators to the south that foam up
when the swell hits them between the entrance and Nobbys headland, (bird rock and some bommies)
which gives you an idea of when the sets are approaching.
It can be a bit of chinese lottery
Avoid the runout if at all possible
When you leave hug close to the north wall (like very close )
and motor pretty well straight north north east
town beach actually faces east north east
You can keep an eye out on your way down the main channel for sets before you commit !
Watch out for surfers paddling across the channel to surf on the north side and in some cases
surfing the bar , there is a fine wave that breaks towards the north (the take off point being well north past the white sector)when the swell is over 3m
and there have been cases of boats just missing surfers ....on big swells
where are you moored ?

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MorningBird said..
First lesson. The vast majority of Marine Rescue operators are not boaties let alone yachties. Of the 60-70 at Terrey Hills when I was volunteering there only about 5 had set foot on a small boat. None were experienced yachties.
They are specifically trained not to tell you whether a bar is safe or not, just to read the report to you.
Take their advice, as well meaning as it usually is, at your peril.

+1 MB. I was in the RVCP for a while as well and found my company well meaning and dedicated but not experienced. One time our coxswain rammed a boat we were meant to be rescuing.

Re the bars I found the theory about crossing late on the rising tide works best, steer by hand, and gun the engine like PhoenixStar. But it is fun, we did have seawater pouring over the gunwales once.

Sorry I missed you at Camden Haven NowandZen [we have a problem with a wharf squatter] but I did see you leaving.

Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

And my recommendation for that bar is to go straight pass

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nswsailor said..
Sorry I missed you at Camden Haven NowandZen [we have a problem with a wharf squatter] but I did see you leaving.

Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

And my recommendation for that bar is to go straight pass

Have a go at the Wide Bay Bar when it's in a bad mood. And incidentally it has moved North fairly recently, so check with Tin Can Bay for the latest coordinates. And as morningbird said, don't expect to be told what the current conditions are like. Don't know if it is inexperience of the VMS operator or fear of insurance repercussions, but nobody wants to give you advice anymore.

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Prawnhead said..
The bar at port is probably shallower than it has ever been at the moment!
Currently any swell over 1.5m will produce the odd wave out there even on the run in tide
The sector light is a rough guide but if there is any sort of swell you are far better to continue further north (green zone ) and
then run in at more acute angle towards the north wall keeping a close eye on the swell coming from the port side
should give you time to take whatever evasive action you deem
When the swell is from the south it can be hard to spot any sets coming but there are some indicators to the south that foam up
when the swell hits them between the entrance and Nobbys headland, (bird rock and some bommies)
which gives you an idea of when the sets are approaching.
It can be a bit of chinese lottery
Avoid the runout if at all possible
When you leave hug close to the north wall (like very close )
and motor pretty well straight north north east
town beach actually faces east north east
You can keep an eye out on your way down the main channel for sets before you commit !
Watch out for surfers paddling across the channel to surf on the north side and in some cases
surfing the bar , there is a fine wave that breaks towards the north (the take off point being well north past the white sector)when the swell is over 3m
and there have been cases of boats just missing surfers ....on big swells
where are you moored ?

Thanks Prawnhead, good advice it seems!
We will think carefully before we leave Port Mac.

To you other guys, I guess now a days, the whole arse covering exercise seems so prevalent and no one wants to give official advice in case of being sued or something. So someone in Marine Rescue won't stick their neck out and give advice that should be committed to (in some cases at least).

We will work it out.

Do not take advice from Marine rescue for any bar crossings or pretty much anything else. Nothing to do with insurance or being sued it's just they are volunteers and often know very little about boats. They are probably more interested in radio communication etc and it's why they volunteer. There is a big difference to looking out a window at a bar than being on the face of that nasty wave!

As you work your way North find out what VHF channels the professional fishermen use and monitor these. Trawler skippers in particular gossip all day and there will always be plenty of useful info. Serious amateur fishermen also can be helpful.

Based on advice in Lucas's NSW Cruising Guide, Tweed, Ballina and Port Macquarie are off limits as far as we are concerned.

Wide Bay, on the other hand, shouldn't give you any trouble provided you stick to guidelines about state of the tide, don't do it if there is bigger than a 2m swell running, and take the waypoints as a guide only. Don't do it at night, and keep a careful visual lookout. The last few times we've crossed it, there has been breaking water near Waypoint 2, requiring a diversion a hundred metres or so to the north. I do understand the waypoints have been adjusted since then (2 years ago), but are already out of date again.

I don't use the autopilot when crossing bars - it's response, particularly to swells from behind, is too slow. Yours may be better.

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nswsailor said...


Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

What about SW.Rocks the bar there is far worse than the port bar

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twodogs1969 said..

nswsailor said...


Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

What about SW.Rocks the bar there is far worse than the port bar

I think the next dangerous bar I will encounter is Port MacQuarie!
Unless I sell my boat where it is and go hitch hiking.
We will probably leave in a couple of days - wait for the tide to be slack at the river mouth and get my timing a little better.

I decided to get out of my comfort zone the other day and sail up from port hacking in 25 knots and 2-3m swell. I've always chosen days when there was way less breeze and minimal swell. Wow. Was a quick trip. I have no auto pilot but I couldn't see it bring a benefit this day as the sea was southerly,slightly confused, big and winds especially near Botany Bay were gusting above 25knots. I needed to hand steer to compensate for the swell and gusts.

Well done steve

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twodogs1969 said..

nswsailor said...


Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

What about SW.Rocks the bar there is far worse than the port bar

Mmmm you must have a trailer sailer twodogs as no keeler will ever get into South West Rocks

The only wave I miss

Jeeze it can line up perfectly

Nice one Steve
Not sure how yor autopilot could react faster than you

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andy59 said...
Nice one Steve
Not sure how yor autopilot could react faster than you Now and Zen I'd be hand steering

I have only been over sw rocks in my fishing boat but HAVE seen yachts in the river. My answer was to your comment about port bar being a bad bar and the sw bar has a far worse reputation.

In my case I needed to steer the boat before a pitching wave went under the hull and compensate for the gusts. I'm not sure how an autopilot would do this. I'm no expert but like you guys said the autopilot reacts. It cannot think ahead. If there's pitching seas coming from multiple directions and gusts I think a human can plan ahead and keep the boat stabilised . I'd looooove an autopilot though!

I have to compliment those of us here who live on the coast of NSW and regularly negotiate exits and entries over bars.

You can have all the timings and local knowledge you like but when the weather cuts up rough and you are outside, you have a gutsy decision to make. Stay out or go in.

I salute you.

P.S. I did read an article years ago that suggested the safest vessel to negotiate a rough bar entry in NSW was an International Diamond. Having sailed on one many years ago, I can believe it.

. I got over the south west rocks bar in the middle of the night and bumped on the way in. I draw 1.6. Won't go in there again. Mind you it was great food at the tavern

I went express Solo so I can't really help Now n Zen i tryed to avoid bar crossing and made the most of the southerly and Airlie beach on my mind. I would never use autopilot crossing a bar. Southport and widebaybar was the only time I had to tackle bars. I hit them both on top slack tides and very little swell.

closest ive come to bar crossings is watching them on youtube :)

Only bar we have done is Lake Macquarie. Pretty scary getting in last christmas as the east coast low was forming, so staying out was not an option. We missed the last bridge before dark, so decided to spend the night on the eastern moorings. Watched and listened to the surf roll over moon island during the night.

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cisco said..

I have to compliment those of us here who live on the coast of NSW and regularly negotiate exits and entries over bars.

You can have all the timings and local knowledge you like but when the weather cuts up rough and you are outside, you have a gutsy decision to make. Stay out or go in.

I salute you.

P.S. I did read an article years ago that suggested the safest vessel to negotiate a rough bar entry in NSW was an International Diamond. Having sailed on one many years ago, I can believe it.

Mate, an aircraft carrier is the best way to cross a bar. Or the Port Philip rip anyway.

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twodogs1969 said..

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

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nswsailor said...

twodogs1969 said..

nswsailor said...


Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

What about SW.Rocks the bar there is far worse than the port bar

Mmmm you must have a trailer sailer twodogs as no keeler will ever get into South West Rocks

I've been into SWR on my Tartan 37. But I believe it's closed now. I heard that last time I went past on my way to Port Mac.
I hope you come into the Clarence River NowandZen.

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McNaughtical said..

nswsailor said...

twodogs1969 said..

nswsailor said...


Now you have crossed the Port Macquarie bar there is only one bar more dangerous on the east coast to cross, that being the Ballina Bar.

What about SW.Rocks the bar there is far worse than the port bar

Mmmm you must have a trailer sailer twodogs as no keeler will ever get into South West Rocks

I've been into SWR on my Tartan 37. But I believe it's closed now. I heard that last time I went past on my way to Port Mac.
I hope you come into the Clarence River NowandZen.

We arrived in the Clarence River yesterday afternoon about 1600hrs and we are looking forward having a look around.
The bar was not behaving itself on the northern side - where the leads are, with waves breaking almost constantly and continuing to break all the way to the beach.
This did not perturb the huge launch who charged in only to come to a quick halt when he saw more rollers coming in, then gunned it in between them.
Our Perkins doesn't have that much power so after eyeballing it for about 15 minutes and deciding we wouldn't be able to get in in-between sets, we had a look at the south side.
After some debate, we entered quite safely, while the north side continued to resemble Bells Beach on a big day.