Hi all

Still playing with the idea of a 4 meter whisker pole to pole out my genoa and a mate of mine gave me a short jockey pole with these on either end (with or without a topping lift)

Is there any reason why I cant put them on the end of a 4 meter piece of tube and use them to do the job

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Regards Don

Hi Don,
Looks like a good score, I see no reason at all.
Just make sure you align them the right way around before you rivet them (don't ask me why I would mention that)

I have done exactly that to make my whisker pole works perfectly

A pool scoop handle works well as an adjustable length whisker pole.

Hi all

Thanks for the feedback

The only decision I need to make now is how to attach the topping lift to it

On my spinnaker pole I have a dyneema bridle top and bottom for the topping lift and down haul but for this one I am wondering whether to just attach the topping lift to the centre of the pole as the only downward load on the outer end of the pole will be the tension on the sheet

The other alternatives are a bridle the same as my spinnaker pole of attach the topping lift to the outer end only

What are everyone's thoughts on this

When it blows the Genoa clew tend to want to lift but during races with it poled out I am normally on the foredeck so I figure I can keep the pole down and forward

Regards Don

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Yara said..
A pool scoop handle works well as an adjustable length whisker pole.

Hi Yara

i tried a extendable paint roller handle but during the first race it blew a bit and I was trying to hold the pole down and it bent in half

The boat is only a 28 footer but the Genoa has a bit of area to it and the winds in Tassie can be a bit unpredictable

Regards Don

The pool scoop handle is quite a lot larger in diameter than the paint brush handle. I have used mine as a gin pole under quite a large load. The standard spinnaker pole fittings also match the diameter. And yes, it needs the bridle to avoid bending.

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Yara said..
The pool scoop handle is quite a lot larger in diameter than the paint brush handle. I have used mine as a gin pole under quite a large load. The standard spinnaker pole fittings also match the diameter. And yes, it needs the bridle to avoid bending.

Hi Yara

Thanks for the information

I didn't realise the pool scoop handles were that strong

Regards Don

I would stick with a bridle for the topping lift Donk . Easier to end for end the pole when gybeing

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SandS said..
I would stick with a bridle for the topping lift Donk . Easier to end for end the pole when gybeing

Hi Sands

With this pole i won't be able to end for end as it has a different fitting on the sheet end to the mast end


Regards Don

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Donk107 said..

SandS said..
I would stick with a bridle for the topping lift Donk . Easier to end for end the pole when gybeing

Hi Sands

With this pole i won't be able to end for end as it has a different fitting on the sheet end to the mast end


Regards Don

oh yeah , so maybe onto the end only, so you can pull it up to the mast to jibe .

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SandS said..

Donk107 said..

SandS said..
I would stick with a bridle for the topping lift Donk . Easier to end for end the pole when gybeing

Hi Sands

With this pole i won't be able to end for end as it has a different fitting on the sheet end to the mast end


Regards Don

oh yeah , so maybe onto the end only, so you can pull it up to the mast to jibe .

Hi Sands

The only disadvantage I can see with attaching it to the outer end is I wouldn't be able to set the pole up and then attach the topping lift as it would be too far outboard unless i made up a bridle with no angle that layed along the pole with shock cord on the inner side so it held the topping lift attachment point halfway along the pole

I have a knot tied in the topping lift to stop it going up the mast and out of reach (this happened in a race once and I spent the next downwind leg of the lap with the pole resting on my shoulder) so I would not be able to pull the pole up the mast to gybe it

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..

SandS said..

Donk107 said..

SandS said..
I would stick with a bridle for the topping lift Donk . Easier to end for end the pole when gybeing

Hi Sands

With this pole i won't be able to end for end as it has a different fitting on the sheet end to the mast end


Regards Don

oh yeah , so maybe onto the end only, so you can pull it up to the mast to jibe .

Hi Sands

The only disadvantage I can see with attaching it to the outer end is I wouldn't be able to set the pole up and then attach the topping lift as it would be too far outboard unless i made up a bridle with no angle that layed along the pole with shock cord on the inner side so it held the topping lift attachment point halfway along the pole

I have a knot tied in the topping lift to stop it going up the mast and out of reach (this happened in a race once and I spent the next downwind leg of the lap with the pole resting on my shoulder) so I would not be able to pull the pole up the mast to gybe it

Regards Don

back to the normal bridle then

Yep, rig it with normal bridles for topping lift and kicker. If it gets a bit fresh, the topper will stop the pole going in if someone lets go of the jib sheet, and the kicker will stop your pole smashing into your sidestay if the beak goes in the water..
A bit of shot cord round the pole to slip the bridle rings through for the light stuff when you couldnt be bothered with toppers and kickers.

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shaggybaxter said..
Yep, rig it with normal bridles for topping lift and kicker. If it gets a bit fresh, the topper will stop the pole going in if someone lets go of the jib sheet, and the kicker will stop your pole smashing into your sidestay if the beak goes in the water..
A bit of shot cord round the pole to slip the bridle rings through for the light stuff when you couldnt be bothered with toppers and kickers.

Hi Shaggy

I don't think I will worry about the down haul as on my boat it goes to the base of the mast so it will hold the pole down but not restrict it going backwards

This works well with the spinnaker because you can brace it backwards without having to adjust the downhaul

If need be I could attach a block to the mooring post on the foredeck and run the down haul through it as well to restrict the pole going rearward but normally in the twilights if the head sail is poled out I am on the foredeck ready to take the pole out if the wind changes so I can hopefully keep the pole off the stays if things go bad

Regards Don

Will spinnaker line stopper balls work with that reaching strut ? Seem easier to get in a tangle compared to a normal pole.

A

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Andrew68 said..
Will spinnaker line stopper balls work with that reaching strut ? Seem easier to get in a tangle compared to a normal pole.

A

Hi Andrew

Can you explain what you mean

Regards Don

Course it will work. I use a large strong bamboo pole with cleats at each end. Works exceptionally well. Don't be afraid to Try stuff.

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Donk107 said..

Andrew68 said..
Will spinnaker line stopper balls work with that reaching strut ? Seems easier to get in a tangle compared to a normal pole.

A

Hi Andrew

Can you explain what you mean

Regards Don

I was always taught that you need a stopper ball or a reasonable sized knot on the spin guy snapshakle to stop the guy dragging the spinnaker sail through the eye of the spinnaker pole. The reaching strut jaw is quite open. What is to stop the spinnaker being drawn/and or jammed in the jaw, particularly whilst reaching ? Probably not an issue in light conditions.

This is the only reason that I could think of.

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Andrew68 said..

Donk107 said..

Andrew68 said..
Will spinnaker line stopper balls work with that reaching strut ? Seems easier to get in a tangle compared to a normal pole.

A

Hi Andrew

Can you explain what you mean

Regards Don

I was always taught that you need a stopper ball or a reasonable sized knot on the spin guy snapshakle to stop the guy dragging the spinnaker sail through the eye of the spinnaker pole. The reaching strut jaw is quite open. What is to stop the spinnaker being drawn/and or jammed in the jaw, particularly whilst reaching ? Probably not an issue in light conditions.

This is the only reason that I could think of.

Hi Andrew

I understand what you are referring to now

This pole with the open outer end is only for poling out the head sail not for using with the spinnaker as I have a shorter conventional spinnaker pole for that so I should not have any drama's pulling the head sail clew and two bowlines through the open ended fitting but thanks for pointing it out anyway

Regards Don

Hi all

I finally got my finger out and bought a 4 meter length of 50mm internal 2mm alloy tube to make the pole out of and some 3mm spectraspeed to make a top bridle that goes from end to end with a ring in the middle

I intend to have the jaws on the mast ring end face upwards like a spinnaker pole but in two minds over which way to face the outer end jaws

I know that when it blows the clew on the sail wants to lift so i will probably face it jaws down to hold the sheet in the pole which is what Forespar recommend for their whisker poles in this article www.forespar.com/whiskerPoleSeminar.shtml when using conventional pole ends and i suppose the only risk i have is that the sheet might drop out of the open outer end when it is light

A 4.2 meter is going to be a big bugger to deal with on the foredeck of a 8.45 meter boat but i n the article it says the pole should be the length of the foot of the sail and i reckon my genoa is probably around 4500 on the foot I will see what happens

Any thoughts on the outer end up or down would be appreciated

Regards Don

The philosophy of mine - as a single-hander is to set up everything the way it would work "by itself" if possible, with the least interference or need of control and adjustment.

Following the above philosophy the pole ends l would recommend to be snap type close jaws.
The up and down-haul lines with a bridle are not just fancy bits hanging off the pole but one of the most important ways of pole control. Dynema is highly recommended for this, regardless of costs. My up-haul runs over a jam cleat on the mast and gives me perfect control of the - much longer than your pole at 5.35m - whisker pole on an 8.7m yacht with a sail-foot of 6.35m.

You might regret the decision of a short 4m pole. Starting at 5.5m and cutting it down as needed might have been a better option.
I hope it works.

I guess it comes down to the boat design. The East Coast 31 has moulded pole holders in the deck on each side. I tend to think that Peter Cole designed the pole dimensions for spinnakers, not for headsails, but generally they work well for us. Because I can, I carry 2 poles, a lightweight whisker and a heavier spinnaker pole.

The holders take a 4.2m pole + beaks, so about 4.4m. According to saildata, the J number is 4.15m, so my 150% #1 headsail foot is approx 6.30m. I find that it has a fair bit of belly when on the pole, so is only useful dead down wind in a very light breeze. Another 300mm would probably suit it.

The 135% #2 @ 5.6m foot fits on the pole much better, so is our choice for anything stronger than a drifter downwind.

I finally got my finger out and took the pole that ended up at 4.2 meters out for a try today and it works beautifully

The only issue is where to store a 4.2 meter pol;e on a 8.4 meter boat but is sits along the deck attached to the toe rail pretty well

This is the pole compared to the 3.6 spinnaker pole out on ther river today




Regards Don