Shaggy I too don't have the luxury of prop effect when coming in.
With 2 widely spaced rudders and a single centre mounted outboard, marinas give me the heebee's as it is, I'll take a mooring anyday.

I have found though, I tend to have more control in reverse when coming in single handed.
You get better vision, and the bows follow at low speed without wanting to blow off as much as they do when entering bow first.

Plus it is also a shorter trip with a sternline, rather than a dash amidship or up forward.

The first battle scar is going to hurt the most.

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crustysailor said..
Shaggy I too don't have the luxury of prop effect when coming in.
With 2 widely spaced rudders and a single centre mounted outboard, marinas give me the heebee's as it is, I'll take a mooring anyday.

I have found though, I tend to have more control in reverse when coming in single handed.
You get better vision, and the bows follow at low speed without wanting to blow off as much as they do when entering bow first.

Plus it is also a shorter trip with a sternline, rather than a dash amidship or up forward.

The first battle scar is going to hurt the most.

Cats work well and can turn on a twenty cent coin with two motors you would know that Crusty There real nice to watch
My old boat is far better to control with my masts up Ive found

How about swapping berths with the bloke next door? if the prevailing wind is from your left, that shouldn't be too difficult to sell? Alternatively, buy a full displacement hull; they don't blow off quite so quickly.
My New York 32 stops nicely with prop wash when berthing on the port side and if the stern spring is close at hand when you leap off and the bow line is brought back to the stanchion nearest the cockpit, it shouldn't be too much of a drama to slip the spring on a cleat (handy if it's looped) and then dash forward with the bow line.

Hi Shaggy

This is what you need to catch her nose http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Inflatable-Boat-Ski-Dock-/222027590953?hash=item33b1e02d29:g:~TEAAOSwwE5WaQNu

Regards Don

Go really slow.

The dock for $999 is way too small to catch a large yacht, methinks. It would make the vendor richer, thou.
There must be a much cheaper way.
Going slow, Steve, does not always work. My bow was blown on the dock at MHYC once, when l was pussyfooting around and the gust pushed the bow back because l did not have enough speed to turn quickly.
My boat is 25 years old, has a fin keel and skeg hung rudder, weighing 3,7 tons. Shaggy's is a 40(?), and it weighs probably less and it is brand new.
I feel Shaggy's anguish in my blood and wish him on another berth. I hope he finds a solution before the insurance company has to be called?

Cant sleep either aye john+! Yes slow going works well in no wind. I find going slow with throttle bursts when needed works for me.

Hi Shaggy

this might be a idea for your home berth

regards Don

Winner!

Hi Guys,
Wow. Firstly, thanks to everyone for the advice and comments, I've read and absorbed every one, they are all great :)
I thought I'd update everyone as to the latest. The depth is still enough of a concern for me not to trust reversing in just yet, so this for me is off limits for the short term. I still have a bit of mapping to do to the bottom before I get that ballsy.
So, for now, this is the technique that I found works most easily and consistently, and that is the stern line. I just needed to increase revs a bit more than I was doing to keep the nose pinned.
This will be a work in progress for a while, but yep, practice is the key, every time I come in it seems that little bit easier as I get to understand the nuances of the boat more.




I also found I was coming in too wide, I was too far over to the left when I started the turn. This allowed me to straighten up before entering, but I was fighting the cross breeze for longer. I am now coming down the centre of the row, rather than over to the left, and entering the dock still on the radius of the turn.





A pic of her nestled snugly in the dock . It all looks so easy when they're moored up quietly!

Especially when your neighbour is out

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theselkie said..
Especially when your neighbour is out

+1
Shags.....when you put your foot down and accelerate sharply...how do you stop yourself falling off the back???.

G'day Sam,
The safety lines normally would stop me, in this pic they are unclipped and draped over the starbd pushpit. One cool Pogo thing I like, the stanchion in the centre of the transom comes out. You unclip the safety lines on the port pushpit, give the centre stanchion a half twist (bayonet nut) and it comes out. There is another mounting for the stanchion over on the starbd side of the transom you can reposition it out of the way.








This is why it looks weird, the centre stanchion is off to the right in the pic. The ladder mounts are located so you can get up the ladder without the stanchion getting in the way. Its good for the kids, it opens the whole back of the boat for the obligatory bomb dives! Makes getting in the tender easier come to think of it.

FR, that is a truly awesome video! Thanks for that, gave a sense of perspective!

Enlightening and full of good stuff, always wonder why they build marinas square to the prevailing breeze.

Only thing, thank god I don't have the worries of "barking" the neighbour's boat, i have got to love my single pen.

Does anyone find that good seamanship is a lot about working out a sequence of events and then executing them consistently? I took a dose of humility today.

I was coming in to the dock today, with crew. Usual strong crosswind, but milder today, about 13 knots.
Somebody had turned the radio up, which normally i don't like when docking. I couldn't hear the crew, but I let it go. Wrong move.

I usually start the turn at a boat length away, today, distracted by the noise and focusing on the guys hopping off instead of the boat, I was probably 3/4 of a length away when I started the turn. I saw it and thought I should make sure I turned a bit harder..
I then thought I heard a "too far out" which was usual, but it was a "not far enough". Unsure, I hesitated on hardening the turn whilst a few "cant hear you"'s ensued.
End result; I centre punched the seaward end of the dock at about 1.5kn. I didn't turn enough. To make me feel worse, the impact mark was a good two inches in from the edge.

You're right Crusty, the first battle scar hurts the most.

When we tied up and got off and got our first look, the damage turned out to be a simple 10mm square paint chip on the blue boot stripe on the bow. I offered up a silent thank you to Structures, it had been a hard enough hit to flatten the poor bowman on the foredeck so I was expecting a lot worse.

The Lesson learnt: I deviated from the plan I had been fine tuning. I was tired and ignored a couple of small, seemingly trivial, details and it bit me on the arse straight away. So, grit my teeth, swallow the bitter pill and move on. Good seamananship cannot be earnt without being on the water, and today's education was that the plan does not accommodate for a tired skipper to just skip steps. (1) making sure we have good communication between crew 2) if hesitation and that-moment-to-decide overlap, stop right there and straight away execute the bail out plan.

I love how sailing never stops teaching you things, humility being the least of them

Shaggy, I can appreciate your challenge. That hull/rudder design is built for doing things other than docking.

A couple suggestions.

As you found, the standard spring line to midship cleat won't really work for you due to the lack of prop wash, but the short stern tie off should do the trick with enough power applied. The amount of power required would be dependant on the amount of crosswind. A bit of trial and error required, but better too much than not enough as soon as that stern cleat is looped.

I would also have a long line ready from your bow cleat to your stern cleat, drooping down close to water level. After your stern line is attached and power is applied, walk forward with this long line and drop it over the mid and forward dock cleats. This is quick and gives you some flexibility for differing situations.

One other point -If your vision of the dock is not clear during your approach, install a raised flag (like what you see on mobility scooters) on the corner of the finger. This certainly helped me in positioning the boat more accurately, and the panic reverse thrust is required much less frequently.

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Shaggybaxter said..
Does anyone find that good seamanship is a lot about working out a sequence of events and then executing them consistently? I took a dose of humility today.

I was coming in to the dock today, with crew. Usual strong crosswind, but milder today, about 13 knots.
Somebody had turned the radio up, which normally i don't like when docking. I couldn't hear the crew, but I let it go. Wrong move.

I usually start the turn at a boat length away, today, distracted by the noise and focusing on the guys hopping off instead of the boat, I was probably 3/4 of a length away when I started the turn. I saw it and thought I should make sure I turned a bit harder..
I then thought I heard a "too far out" which was usual, but it was a "not far enough". Unsure, I hesitated on hardening the turn whilst a few "cant hear you"'s ensued.
End result; I centre punched the seaward end of the dock at about 1.5kn. I didn't turn enough. To make me feel worse, the impact mark was a good two inches in from the edge.

You're right Crusty, the first battle scar hurts the most.

When we tied up and got off and got our first look, the damage turned out to be a simple 10mm square paint chip on the blue boot stripe on the bow. I offered up a silent thank you to Structures, it had been a hard enough hit to flatten the poor bowman on the foredeck so I was expecting a lot worse.

The Lesson learnt: I deviated from the plan I had been fine tuning. I was tired and ignored a couple of small, seemingly trivial, details and it bit me on the arse straight away. So, grit my teeth, swallow the bitter pill and move on. Good seamananship cannot be earnt without being on the water, and today's education was that the plan does not accommodate for a tired skipper to just skip steps. (1) making sure we have good communication between crew 2) if hesitation and that-moment-to-decide overlap, stop right there and straight away execute the bail out plan.

I love how sailing never stops teaching you things, humility being the least of them

Oh Shaggy

my heart goes out to you. And poor Fusion. And whoever was on the foredeck

Why does docking have to be, in my humble opinion, THE most difficult skill, but the one that you simply must have in order to be able to get out and enjoy the fun bits of boating??!! The quintessential Catch 22

Know what you mean about protocol and deviating from it....and noise, whether it be music or even talking. I turn the music off when I start dropping sails etc. outside the Leads in order to get me into that calm, organised, undistracted place I need to be. I turn the VHF and phone right down. If the girls are with me, they have a tendency to want to enter into lengthy discussion just as we're approaching the dock, but they're learning that I need quiet. I'm not a tyrant by the way.

I too focus too much on crew hopping off and not the boat. In that regard, I'd prefer to be alone.

If I have had some misadventures whilst out, I do tend to ruminate over them and not leave the ill-feelings of diminished confidence at the Leads. I need to learn to leave things in the past in order to prevent perpetuating more incidents from occurring.

I have become so fanatical about everything being organised for the approach to the dock that all the sheets and other lines in my cockpit are tidy and anything that I may have had outside is taken down below. Such is the absolute fear I have of docking.

I must say that life is so much easier now in 26ft and monohull, than with the 32ft cat with one outboard on a central pod which did not pivot. I think I will remain scarred and traumatised forever more from that .

You're so right, Shaggy, about good seamanship being learnt on the water. This stuff cannot be learnt in the classroom or from a text.

Trace

Coming in to your home dock, there should be no reason for anyone to be jumping off the boat trying to do lines. Have your lines fixed to the dock cleats and pick them up with a boat hook. Jumping off moving boats is silly.

Also, jumping on a moving boat is silly. As is not knowing "forward" from "the other forward"

Correct me if I am wrong but that morse control seems to be working arseabout

Al

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dialdan said..
Correct me if I am wrong but that morse control seems to be working arseabout

Al

Nope, no corrections needed, except to the control which is arse about face.

I think she's just coming in smoking hot (probably 5kts ), flicking it in and out of idle forward that is not really doing much to slow them down. Just before she hits the dock, he calls "forward" and she goes reverse so he then calls "the other forward". She then bounces off the dock in full forward before straight back into idle reverse again which slows the forward movement.

Thanks for vids Freeradical, love them

First one doesn't look like 60kts though?

Late entry
lots of good advice here
Boat characteristics here seem very pertinent
i found the RYA booklet on boat handling v useful,especially the chapter on warps

i had a north facing pen which was v challenging to safely enter in stro northerlies,
bow would blow off unless alarmiNg speed in reverse applied!

best wishes
david

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FreeRadical said...
I think she's just coming in smoking hot (probably 5kts ), flicking it in and out of idle forward that is not really doing much to slow them down. Just before she hits the dock, he calls "forward" and she goes reverse so he then calls "the other forward". She then bounces off the dock in full forward before straight back into idle reverse again which slows the forward movement.

I'm not a big fan of this technique of standing behind the wheel.. I think in this case it place some part in the problem.. To me, forward is forward. It would be very easy in this scenario to just push 'forward' on the throttle which would in fact be reverse.

With docking, single handed or otherwise, there always comes a point of no return or if you like, a point where you are committed and have to proceed no matter how out of shape the manoeuvre is going.

Part of the art of docking, and I do see it as an art, is recognising where that point of no return is before you get to it.

If possible, docking is easiest done when going into wind and /or tide. I always approach a docking point as slowly as possible.

In the vid above with the Benetau coming in with 60 knots of wind up it's clacker it may have been better to come in backwards using the wind to bring it in and using short bursts in forward to control direction and speed. Just a thought.

Shaggy how's about changing the aspect completely as it seems a mission even with crew.
How about pulling up directly to the end of your pontoon midships and into the wind. Then a simple bow and stern rope to walk her into the berth using a pivet affect and good fendering on the pontoon corner. I have done this before and it appears you don't have over hanging neibours?

just a thought.

Shaggy Baxter
I think id buy a light weight electric out board and use it as a bow or stern thruster.
Maybe not when your racing, but practice and normal weekend stuff.

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southace said..
Shaggy how's about changing the aspect completely as it seems a mission even with crew.
How about pulling up directly to the end of your pontoon midships and into the wind. Then a simple bow and stern rope to walk her into the berth using a pivet affect and good fendering on the pontoon corner. I have done this before and it appears you don't have over hanging neibours?

just a thought.

Hi Southace,
Heh...you must be a mind reader, I was trying this on Tuesday night. I'd worked out a complete system, and was raring to go.
Then i jumped in the dinghy and did some soundings just to ensure I wouldn't catch the rudders on the boat ramp.
Sadly, not the best result. I run out of depth for the keel and rudders the other side of my dock on the shore side. In other words three-four feet past my mooring it goes shallow.

I'm starting to think about changing berths.