Hey all,

Windsurfed many years ago (mid 90's to early 00's), and before that a lot of dinghy racing and sailing in the UK on the south coast.

Did Competent Crew with wife and teens earlier this year, and we're looking for a boat for some coastal day sailing, and odd weekends.

If we're looking to spend max $20k, whats the best we can do? I'd prefer to sail, not spend time fixing glass but I'm handy with tools to do basic maintenance and happy to pay pro's for stuff like standing rigging, if its still within budget :) . We're near the Pittwater in Sydney.. so use will likely be around Pittwater up to Broken Bay, possibly down to Sydney Harbour once we're more experienced (and have Day Skipper under our belts).

Looking around, seeing Compass 28 /29's, Top Hat's, and a few others in my price range.. but having not sailed any of them, interested to know what models are worth keeping an eye out for?

Not a real good time to be buying a yacht at the moment. This is the time of the year when all sorts of dross gets put back on the market. There are some good buys however in your price range and stick to a production yacht. I personally would buy the largest boat in that price range up to a max of 35 feet. I would also stick to fin keel and skeg rudder yachts. There is an untidy East Coast 31 for sail in Gunnamatta Bay for ten grand. My personal pick is this Ohlson 35 which is just as good a boat as an SS34 and usually sell for more than a SS34..

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/ohlson-35-masthead-sloop/300544

Yes - Compass a good option,as many available,and should not frighten anyone !
Nice 29 sold for $18k,in our bay ready to go.
Easterly 30 bestest,if you can find one ?
Ensure you get a current survey,as some 50yo,unless you trust yourself not to get caught with a shocker !

This could suit perfectly. Excellent all rounder, easily handled with that fractional rig. Obviously suggest survey, also check the Drofin engine service history - the advert should have included the model # and hp - see 2nd link below for parts, 3rd link for comments - easily upgraded to a more recent Beta (Kubota base) when they come up for sale 2nd hand now and then.

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1978-santana-30/OAG-AD-20355472/?Cr=0

www.gineicomarine.com.au/product/drofin-spare-parts/

www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/drofin-27578.html

Have you considered a Trailer Sailer? I have a Magnum 8.5 (28'). Great boat to sail, no mooring/pen fees will leave you more to put towards purchase price. also Imexus 28, Clubman 8, RL28, Farr/Noelex 30 etc.

a retractable keel is a "nice to have" for weekend sailing pulling up to beaches and crossing into shallow waters and anchorages.
This is my Magnum out at the Abrolhos Islands 50km off Geraldton WA.

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r13 said..
This could suit perfectly. Excellent all rounder, easily handled with that fractional rig. Obviously suggest survey, also check the Drofin engine service history - the advert should have included the model # and hp - see 2nd link below for parts, 3rd link for comments - easily upgraded to a more recent Beta (Kubota base) when they come up for sale 2nd hand now and then.

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1978-santana-30/OAG-AD-20355472/?Cr=0

www.gineicomarine.com.au/product/drofin-spare-parts/

www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/drofin-27578.html

Or another one here a bit above your range but everything is negotiable. I can't interpret all the halyards and tackle at the stern from the mast but if it has runners would leave it alone. The mast spreaders are swept back and don't believe the 1990 build versions had runners - photos are hard to decipher. A quick phone call would advise.

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1990-northshore-30/OAG-AD-21094937/?Cr=42

As an owner of both a TS and keeler there are certainly advantages to a trailer sailer. Flexibility (you can explore some great spots easily without having to sail there first) and lower maintenance cost being the two main ones.
Having said that you need a decent tow vehicle and a spare driveway space to keep a TS. But many people already have those requirements.
We have had a lot of fun in our Castle 650 ts which often sell around the $20k mark. Easily towed by a typical family SUV. Sails circles around most boats it's size.
Our 30 foot keelboat is more comfortable and handles a bit more breeze. Mooring costs are not excessive but diesel maintenance is ridiculous. Keep that in mind if you go the keeler path.

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PLanter4 said..
Yes - Compass a good option,as many available,and should not frighten anyone !
Nice 29 sold for $18k,in our bay ready to go.
Easterly 30 bestest,if you can find one ?
Ensure you get a current survey,as some 50yo,unless you trust yourself not to get caught with a shocker !

Easterly? Interesting - had come across the Westerley, but not easterly - will go search.

For the money, a current survey is useful - but history and receipts for rigging, sails, chains, antifoul, and insurance inspections are equally important IMO at this bracket. I'm aware at this age, they're not going to be without issues, and I'll trade against the bigger items being verifiably done vs the cost of paying for them myself, as well as enough sail plan to get some good experience.

I figure I'm either buying something around $10-12 which needs $8k of work, or $20k for something which is good enough to sail and just eat maintenance and surprises.

What's a decent expectation on survey cost? (presumably - to haul out, and inspect hull for osmosis, stays, etc.). Also - is it something I should plan to be there to see, or just trust the boat yard to do? No idea how that side of boat ownership works :)

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Madmouse said..
As an owner of both a TS and keeler there are certainly advantages to a trailer sailer. Flexibility (you can explore some great spots easily without having to sail there first) and lower maintenance cost being the two main ones.
Having said that you need a decent tow vehicle and a spare driveway space to keep a TS. But many people already have those requirements.
We have had a lot of fun in our Castle 650 ts which often sell around the $20k mark. Easily towed by a typical family SUV. Sails circles around most boats it's size.
Our 30 foot keelboat is more comfortable and handles a bit more breeze. Mooring costs are not excessive but diesel maintenance is ridiculous. Keep that in mind if you go the keeler path.

I was looking at trailer sailers about 6 months ago, but decided with the set up time, I'd rather pay a mooring and be able to just drive down, row out to it and sail. Simiarly, at the end of a day, its nice just to secure the boat and head and not have to dismast etc. (I spent enough years rigging and unrigging my windsurfer :) )

Noted on the diesel maintenance - I'm happy to service myself (pumps, alternator bearings, oil changes/filters, hoses etc. all easy - I have a lot of tools and experience with engines. Given its on a boat yeah access issues - I'd probably pay someone to do a rebuild and pull the heads off, but for general servicing and simple repairs I'll get my hands dirty.

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ActionSportsWA said..
Have you considered a Trailer Sailer? I have a Magnum 8.5 (28'). Great boat to sail, no mooring/pen fees will leave you more to put towards purchase price. also Imexus 28, Clubman 8, RL28, Farr/Noelex 30 etc.

Very nice Magnum - when I was considering trailer's, I had it down to pretty much that list (RL28, Ross 830, Noelex 30, Magnum.. altho' I didn't like the open transom on the Clubman). However talking to a few boaties who'd had both, and thinking about it, decided I want a keel and mooring.

Fundamentally I want something which is fine for coastal for now to build experience and make sure the fam are actually interested.. if they stick with it we'll go bigger (not Youtube big.. 40'-ish) to spend more time on it.

If they don't, this is a size I can single hand or just take a mate who sails.

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WomblingFree said..

ActionSportsWA said..
Have you considered a Trailer Sailer? I have a Magnum 8.5 (28'). Great boat to sail, no mooring/pen fees will leave you more to put towards purchase price. also Imexus 28, Clubman 8, RL28, Farr/Noelex 30 etc.

Very nice Magnum - when I was considering trailer's, I had it down to pretty much that list (RL28, Ross 830, Noelex 30, Magnum.. altho' I didn't like the open transom on the Clubman). However talking to a few boaties who'd had both, and thinking about it, decided I want a keel and mooring.

Fundamentally I want something which is fine for coastal for now to build experience and make sure the fam are actually interested.. if they stick with it we'll go bigger (not Youtube big.. 40'-ish) to spend more time on it.

If they don't, this is a size I can single hand or just take a mate who sails.

I understand your thoughts especially with a family to consider.
Once the kids have flown the nest however you will probably have exhausted interest in your local sailing area unless taking up afternoon or evening racing.
I would at that time suggest you reconsider larger trailer sailers unless you have turned your partner into a dedicated long distance/overnight hard core sailer. Relocating your yacht by trailer to many superb alternative cruising destinations then comes into play.
We have just cruised the Whitsundays for 8 weeks on a maxi sized trailer sailer very comfortably as a couple and for a week joined by an old friend yet we returned to southern South Australia in 4 daylight driving hours. This same journey would be reasonably epic by water and consume much more if not all of the under 10 week slot we fitted this world class sailing holiday into. Mast raising, launching and towing can be made relatively quick and easy with well thought out systems and when cruising for days, weeks and months the effort of these pails into insignificance and is easily compensated by other savings versus a keel yacht.
Two trailer sailers at Coral Sea Marina in Airlie Beach. Us above coming in from 8 weeks out in the islands and completely packed up on water in two hours ready to retrieve onto trailer and commencing driving home immediately. The other, one of three cruising in company for 10 days just about to set out.

Trailer Sailer works if can be kept mast up,which is possible in Victoria . Tried for years to find somewhere around Lake Macquarie,but concluded had to buy waterfrontage,with good access = $$$
Also,the process became a 3 day exercise,which defeated the purpose of just going for a sail. Got a Hobie Adventure Island trimaran for a quick spin elsewhere .
Have a Contessa 25 on a mooring on the lake now,so can access the boat,via dinghy, which is cheap waterfront . Obviously only renting the space off the Crown but,with access to the public moorings around the Lake.
Yacht is very small - tent with a lid - but easily managed,and package cheap to maintain,at that scale . Be aware of exponential costs as length/volume increases,as a 30footer is a much bigger beast !
Notice larger yachts in the Bay,always being worked on,whilst I have been out and back for a sail .
Mason

If sailing is your thing then as small as possible is probably the way to go - unless you have more money. As PLanter says, the increase in cost with righting moment is pretty horrific. We used to spend time away as a family in a Contessa and friends had a BLuebird with four. Our 28ft Serendipity was big enough for 4 or 5. But we were kids and two adults. So go and have a look over some boats. Contessa's sail sublimely (not too fast) but for me I would be wanting an Adams 8 or similar. Someting sporty that could rocket along and had an outboard. My mate spends more on servicing his diesels than I would spend changing mine for new (not that I have - my 25 hp four stroke outboard is about 17 years old and has had one problem (dirty fuel) that I fixed for free in half an hour. New four strokes are as reliable as a petrol car). I would suggest some good toileting facilities. I have some cringe worthy memories of people being aboard and then embarressing things happening because of needing to go to the toilet. This is especially important if you want to invite various friends along. (Maybe not the Adams 8 then)A nice cockpit for sitting under an awning at Coasters Retreat or Jeruselum Bay, an icebox is fine for a couple of days (don't get a fridge! - they are black holes of energy consumption - both yours and your electrical system) and a nice bed. I don't like mouldy or smelly interiors, which is probably another reason I am not a big diesel fan but check the bunk cushions out, any water ingress may have ruined them and upholstery is expensive.

Think of a fun boat for twilighting too. Having a little race is a great fun, so I would want something manouvrable and probably a solidish glass lay up - so that a few bumps around marks don't cause problems. All up, I think I have convinced myself to recommend a Northshore 27 - small enough to not cause issues. Has a nice interior with a dunny, good cockpit with easy tiller steering and cheap (although they do have diesels but I reckon I could bung an outboard on the back if the diesel even thought of costing some dollars). Up here on the lake a guy got one for less than $10 000. And they are designed by Peter Cole who never put a foot wrong (although Hank Kaufman says he designed them I agree with those who say they look just like a lovely Cole 23 scaled up). Osmosis is a bit of a thing. I had to do an ossie job on a Contessa (we had a couple) and it took a while. BUt in the end the boat was small enough that I got it done in a few days, then epoxy coated an all good forever. So if she is small enough, then any problems will be small, if you get an East Coast 35 or S and S 34 then problems will be much bigger - but you will have more comfort. I love having a 38 ft cat, but she has been my home for 4 years of my life and having room is nice then. The trailer sailor is great too - she is just fun to sail with lower loads.
Cheers
Phil

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WomblingFree said..

Fundamentally I want something which is fine for coastal for now to build experience and make sure the fam are actually interested.. if they stick with it we'll go bigger (not Youtube big.. 40'-ish) to spend more time on it.

If they don't, this is a size I can single hand or just take a mate who sails.

Just going to play devil's advocate here.

Big is good, yeah its more expensive in every way but so much more comfortable in every way as well.

If your family can be as comfortable on your boat as they are at home they will be far more likely to be interested in going out on it. A couch to stretch out on and watch a movie, some privacy for the toilet, at hot shower, a microwave to heat a snack or a cabin to retreat to. Also how a boat sits at anchor or how sea kindly it is will matter to the family. Being able to move around down below when under way is far better than being stuck in one spot for hours because it's to hard to move or being able to sit on deck and not get wet constantly will all make a difference to the family.

Also a well set up cruising boat is made to be sailed short handed, much more so than a racer that is set up to be fast with a crew, so you can go bigger and still sail short or single handed.

My take is if you are wanting to enjoy a boat with the family, as far as the budget will allow, aim for something the family will feel safe and comfortable on. Holding onto a crap for a few days because you hate the toilet or not being able to get comfortable is the sort of thing that stops people enjoying boats.

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WomblingFree said..



I was looking at trailer sailers about 6 months ago, but decided with the set up time, I'd rather pay a mooring and be able to just drive down, row out to it and sail. Simiarly, at the end of a day, its nice just to secure the boat and head and not have to dismast etc. (I spent enough years rigging and unrigging my windsurfer :) )

Noted on the diesel maintenance - I'm happy to service myself (pumps, alternator bearings, oil changes/filters, hoses etc. all easy - I have a lot of tools and experience with engines. Given its on a boat yeah access issues - I'd probably pay someone to do a rebuild and pull the heads off, but for general servicing and simple repairs I'll get my hands dirty.

The market is full of large trailer sailers that people have just got sick of towing about and rigging etc. Just look at some storage parks or yacht clubs and see the grass growing through the trailers. I see more yachts being transported on the road now than trailer sailers!
The survey will be expensive and will depend on where the yacht is. Could be 20% of your budget to tell you the obvious. If you have some engine maintenance experience you might be more qualified than the surveyor! Diesel mechanics that will actually visit your yacht are very rare. With a yacht you will need insurance even if it's only 3rd party property damage to use the slipways and marinas. Insurance companies will require an out of the water inspection survey for comprehensive cover. If you find a boat you like and have it hauled out have a shipwright check it out and do the survey. It wont be as thorough as the full on survey and bill but will satisfy the insurance company. I would suggest joining a local yacht club and spent time crewing on different yachts. There will be boats you will hear about word of mouth and the deals will fall in your lap. Just take your time and relax.
I have raced sailing dinghies for over 63 years and still do. I have owned yachts continuously for the last 48 years and I know all about rigging sailing dinghies compared to a moored yacht. I'm only 5 minutes from my yacht and I can be gone from my mooring in under 15 minutes if I don't get caught up talking to people!

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Ramona said..
I'm only 5 minutes from my yacht and I can be gone from my mooring in under 15 minutes if I don't get caught up talking to people!

It's the same when you return to your mooring!!
I was heading home the other day when I got caught up talking to my neighbors!! First one then another joined in. In the end there were 5 of us "caught up talking" aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand partaking in a few beverages!! They left my boat at midnight & I couldn't scratch myself - I was 2 days late getting home!!!!!

Just been out for the day on the Contessa,before the weather came in ! Marvellous , and away in 20 minutes,once onboard .
Very agile and sailed off the mooring + returned
Birds are bad ,and on Plan H with plastic Hawks/Owls from Green Shed . Effective,at present , but bound to bond with the seagulls/ducks/swans /comorants/swallows ! - Plan I

Bestest Boat,for the family, would be a Mottle 33 ,with the centre cockpit,and would have seen half a dozen + today . One recent arrival was a steal,but had motor issues .

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Ramona said..

The market is full of large trailer sailers that people have just got sick of towing about and rigging etc. Just look at some storage parks or yacht clubs and see the grass growing through the trailers. I see more yachts being transported on the road now than trailer sailers!
The survey will be expensive and will depend on where the yacht is. Could be 20% of your budget to tell you the obvious. If you have some engine maintenance experience you might be more qualified than the surveyor! Diesel mechanics that will actually visit your yacht are very rare. With a yacht you will need insurance even if it's only 3rd party property damage to use the slipways and marinas. Insurance companies will require an out of the water inspection survey for comprehensive cover. If you find a boat you like and have it hauled out have a shipwright check it out and do the survey. It wont be as thorough as the full on survey and bill but will satisfy the insurance company. I would suggest joining a local yacht club and spent time crewing on different yachts. There will be boats you will hear about word of mouth and the deals will fall in your lap. Just take your time and relax.
I have raced sailing dinghies for over 63 years and still do. I have owned yachts continuously for the last 48 years and I know all about rigging sailing dinghies compared to a moored yacht. I'm only 5 minutes from my yacht and I can be gone from my mooring in under 15 minutes if I don't get caught up talking to people!

Excellent info thanks. So haul out and survey sounds like $3k minimum? And yeah, insurance survey at the same time sounds like a sensible move. Ok, so it sounds like a paid survey is the go.. if I can get the prospective boat to one. If not - I have a mate who's a professional commercial structural engineer and has 40+ years of sailing experience who I can ask to come help check out a boat.

I've crewed on a few yachts.. from a bilge keeled 27', to a 44' cruiser. Most fun so far has been a Beneteau 40.7 - but that kind of sporty is definitely a step too far for the family at this stage (altho' managing the main traveller is a hoot on those boats). I'm just after some family fun.. they all really enjoyed doing the competent crew, so just having some fun with family and friends is the go.. and getting more qualifications so a bare-boat charter is a viable trip :)

Two decent looking Compass 29's:
Compass 29: www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/compass-yachts-29-plus-dinghy-and-outboard/303670
'nuther one: www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/compass-yachts-29-owners-says-sell-big-price-drop-now-13900/297201

Bit spendy - but has a companionway hatch..
Easterley 30: www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/compass-yachts-30-1973/298366

And a scary cheap one.. but also.. hatch :D
Westerly 27: www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/compass-yachts-westerly-westerly-27-foot/299618

I think I've ruled out Top Hat 25.. surpisingly practica for the size, but cockpit just isn't big enough for four tall peeps.

And I'd prefer tiller at this stage for the rest of them to get a feel for balancing the boat against the wind - but will accept a wheel :)

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Kankama said..
If sailing is your thing then as small as possible is probably the way to go - unless you have more money.
recommend a Northshore 27 - small enough to not cause issues. Has a nice interior with a dunny, good cockpit with easy tiller steering and cheap (although they do have diesels but I reckon I could bung an outboard on the back if the diesel even thought of costing some dollars). Up here on the lake a guy got one for less than $10 000. And they are designed by Peter Cole who never put a foot wrong (although Hank Kaufman says he designed them I agree with those who say they look just like a lovely Cole 23 scaled up). Osmosis is a bit of a thing. I had to do an ossie job on a Contessa (we had a couple) and it took a while. BUt in the end the boat was small enough that I got it done in a few days, then epoxy coated an all good forever. So if she is small enough, then any problems will be small, if you get an East Coast 35 or S and S 34 then problems will be much bigger - but you will have more comfort. I love having a 38 ft cat, but she has been my home for 4 years of my life and having room is nice then. The trailer sailor is great too - she is just fun to sail with lower loads.
Cheers
Phil

Thanks Phil,

Yeah I don't want to get a 35'er.. have settled on 27-30-ish range as not too much of a money pit for this experiment, but big enough to fit 4-5 adult-sized people for a day sail.

I'm still debating budget - for cars I don't get concerned dropping money on fancy used cars based on just my own inspection (or even sight-unseen a few times at Auction), but I know cars.. so I'm trying to get a feel for what my risk tolerance is for throwaway boat money :) (and per above, I'm sold on an inspection - and insurance :) )

If the family stay as keen after 100+ hours of sailing, and maybe a week or two of chartering, as they say they are currently, then I'll be tempted to go big and will ditch this first boat. But its a big if :) At least I'll end up with more boat time, and if they pike, I'll have a 28' boat I can take out with a mate or even single-hand.

Yes - Northshore 27 looks the business,with sliding hatch + head by companionway . Also,transom hung rudder = large cockpit - good if get dodger/full length bimini . A "name" so has resale,if upgrade/move on !
Mason

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WomblingFree said..
Hey all,

Windsurfed many years ago (mid 90's to early 00's), and before that a lot of dinghy racing and sailing in the UK on the south coast.

Did Competent Crew with wife and teens earlier this year, and we're looking for a boat for some coastal day sailing, and odd weekends.

If we're looking to spend max $20k, whats the best we can do? I'd prefer to sail, not spend time fixing glass but I'm handy with tools to do basic maintenance and happy to pay pro's for stuff like standing rigging, if its still within budget :) . We're near the Pittwater in Sydney.. so use will likely be around Pittwater up to Broken Bay, possibly down to Sydney Harbour once we're more experienced (and have Day Skipper under our belts).

Looking around, seeing Compass 28 /29's, Top Hat's, and a few others in my price range.. but having not sailed any of them, interested to know what models are worth keeping an eye out for?

You pay for size and condition. Having spent far too long fixing stuff in poor condition, my advice is to go small with the best possible condition.

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Kankama said..
If sailing is your thing then as small as possible is probably the way to go - unless you have more money. As PLanter says, the increase in cost with righting moment is pretty horrific. We used to spend time away as a family in a Contessa and friends had a BLuebird with four. Our 28ft Serendipity was big enough for 4 or 5. But we were kids and two adults. So go and have a look over some boats. Contessa's sail sublimely (not too fast) but for me I would be wanting an Adams 8 or similar. Someting sporty that could rocket along and had an outboard. My mate spends more on servicing his diesels than I would spend changing mine for new (not that I have - my 25 hp four stroke outboard is about 17 years old and has had one problem (dirty fuel) that I fixed for free in half an hour. New four strokes are as reliable as a petrol car). I would suggest some good toileting facilities. I have some cringe worthy memories of people being aboard and then embarressing things happening because of needing to go to the toilet. This is especially important if you want to invite various friends along. (Maybe not the Adams 8 then)A nice cockpit for sitting under an awning at Coasters Retreat or Jeruselum Bay, an icebox is fine for a couple of days (don't get a fridge! - they are black holes of energy consumption - both yours and your electrical system) and a nice bed. I don't like mouldy or smelly interiors, which is probably another reason I am not a big diesel fan but check the bunk cushions out, any water ingress may have ruined them and upholstery is expensive.

Think of a fun boat for twilighting too. Having a little race is a great fun, so I would want something manouvrable and probably a solidish glass lay up - so that a few bumps around marks don't cause problems. All up, I think I have convinced myself to recommend a Northshore 27 - small enough to not cause issues. Has a nice interior with a dunny, good cockpit with easy tiller steering and cheap (although they do have diesels but I reckon I could bung an outboard on the back if the diesel even thought of costing some dollars). Up here on the lake a guy got one for less than $10 000. And they are designed by Peter Cole who never put a foot wrong (although Hank Kaufman says he designed them I agree with those who say they look just like a lovely Cole 23 scaled up). Osmosis is a bit of a thing. I had to do an ossie job on a Contessa (we had a couple) and it took a while. BUt in the end the boat was small enough that I got it done in a few days, then epoxy coated an all good forever. So if she is small enough, then any problems will be small, if you get an East Coast 35 or S and S 34 then problems will be much bigger - but you will have more comfort. I love having a 38 ft cat, but she has been my home for 4 years of my life and having room is nice then. The trailer sailor is great too - she is just fun to sail with lower loads.
Cheers
Phil

Phil - Hank Kaufman designed the NS27 - he would have been influenced by Cole. Dbyboatsales got the designer details wrong in an advert but corrected it in a later one -

www.dbyboatsales.com.au/listing/northshore-27-2/

www.dbyboatsales.com.au/listing/northshore-27-9/

Sailboatdata usually gets everything right and nearly did so here - except "masthead rig".

sailboatdata.com/sailboat/northshore-27/

If any and all doubt wanted to be expelled you could join here and ask - fairly sure that this is the Aust Northshore FB Group not the US one which are a different oem - Jules will confirm.

www.facebook.com/groups/NorthshoreOwnersGroup/

regards Rob

Assume you have seen this

www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/1967143303665204?media_id=0&ref=share_attachment

Gday Rob

It is a just a mischievious call about the Northshore 27. IIRC the Cole 23 was being built by Northshore, and then the 27 came out with Hank Kaufmann's name on it that looked just like a blown up Cole 23 - I mean the two look just like they are from the same stable - hence the cheeky quip. BUt yeah Hank Kaufman is the designated designer - but I love Peter Cole's boats, hence the little story. cheers

Phil

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Grith said..

WomblingFree said..

ActionSportsWA said..
Have you considered a Trailer Sailer? I have a Magnum 8.5 (28'). Great boat to sail, no mooring/pen fees will leave you more to put towards purchase price. also Imexus 28, Clubman 8, RL28, Farr/Noelex 30 etc.

Very nice Magnum - when I was considering trailer's, I had it down to pretty much that list (RL28, Ross 830, Noelex 30, Magnum.. altho' I didn't like the open transom on the Clubman). However talking to a few boaties who'd had both, and thinking about it, decided I want a keel and mooring.

Fundamentally I want something which is fine for coastal for now to build experience and make sure the fam are actually interested.. if they stick with it we'll go bigger (not Youtube big.. 40'-ish) to spend more time on it.

If they don't, this is a size I can single hand or just take a mate who sails.

I understand your thoughts especially with a family to consider.
Once the kids have flown the nest however you will probably have exhausted interest in your local sailing area unless taking up afternoon or evening racing.
I would at that time suggest you reconsider larger trailer sailers unless you have turned your partner into a dedicated long distance/overnight hard core sailer. Relocating your yacht by trailer to many superb alternative cruising destinations then comes into play.
We have just cruised the Whitsundays for 8 weeks on a maxi sized trailer sailer very comfortably as a couple and for a week joined by an old friend yet we returned to southern South Australia in 4 daylight driving hours. This same journey would be reasonably epic by water and consume much more if not all of the under 10 week slot we fitted this world class sailing holiday into. Mast raising, launching and towing can be made relatively quick and easy with well thought out systems and when cruising for days, weeks and months the effort of these pails into insignificance and is easily compensated by other savings versus a keel yacht.
Two trailer sailers at Coral Sea Marina in Airlie Beach. Us above coming in from 8 weeks out in the islands and completely packed up on water in two hours ready to retrieve onto trailer and commencing driving home immediately. The other, one of three cruising in company for 10 days just about to set out.

Wow you can tell that they are both carrying a lot of weight and the Magnum in particular looks very low in the water.

"The market is full of large trailer sailers that people have just got sick of towing about and rigging etc. Just look at some storage parks or yacht clubs and see the grass growing through the trailers. I see more yachts being transported on the road now than trailer sailers!"
You need to get out of the marina yards more often although I guess living in Sydney the rest of Oz doesn't exist. The Marlay Point Yacht race attracts over 100 ts each year and the Sonata Yacht Association alone has over 110 paid up boats on their current register .

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Kankama said..
Gday Rob

It is a just a mischievious call about the Northshore 27. IIRC the Cole 23 was being built by Northshore, and then the 27 came out with Hank Kaufmann's name on it that looked just like a blown up Cole 23 - I mean the two look just like they are from the same stable - hence the cheeky quip. BUt yeah Hank Kaufman is the designated designer - but I love Peter Cole's boats, hence the little story. cheers

Phil

Ok, got me. Good prior post here of Aust designers including Cole

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Do-you-have-a-Favourite-Australian-or-New-Zealand-Boat-Designer-of-the-Modern-Era-?page=1

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Bananabender said..
"The market is full of large trailer sailers that people have just got sick of towing about and rigging etc. Just look at some storage parks or yacht clubs and see the grass growing through the trailers. I see more yachts being transported on the road now than trailer sailers!"
You need to get out of the marina yards more often although I guess living in Sydney the rest of Oz doesn't exist. The Marlay Point Yacht race attracts over 100 ts each year and the Sonata Yacht Association alone has over 110 paid up boats on their current register .

Agree! Also there's plenty of keelers that never get used except as a nesting site for gulls and a place for barnacles to grow.

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julesmoto said..

Grith said..

WomblingFree said..

ActionSportsWA said..
Have you considered a Trailer Sailer? I have a Magnum 8.5 (28'). Great boat to sail, no mooring/pen fees will leave you more to put towards purchase price. also Imexus 28, Clubman 8, RL28, Farr/Noelex 30 etc.

Very nice Magnum - when I was considering trailer's, I had it down to pretty much that list (RL28, Ross 830, Noelex 30, Magnum.. altho' I didn't like the open transom on the Clubman). However talking to a few boaties who'd had both, and thinking about it, decided I want a keel and mooring.

Fundamentally I want something which is fine for coastal for now to build experience and make sure the fam are actually interested.. if they stick with it we'll go bigger (not Youtube big.. 40'-ish) to spend more time on it.

If they don't, this is a size I can single hand or just take a mate who sails.

I understand your thoughts especially with a family to consider.
Once the kids have flown the nest however you will probably have exhausted interest in your local sailing area unless taking up afternoon or evening racing.
I would at that time suggest you reconsider larger trailer sailers unless you have turned your partner into a dedicated long distance/overnight hard core sailer. Relocating your yacht by trailer to many superb alternative cruising destinations then comes into play.
We have just cruised the Whitsundays for 8 weeks on a maxi sized trailer sailer very comfortably as a couple and for a week joined by an old friend yet we returned to southern South Australia in 4 daylight driving hours. This same journey would be reasonably epic by water and consume much more if not all of the under 10 week slot we fitted this world class sailing holiday into. Mast raising, launching and towing can be made relatively quick and easy with well thought out systems and when cruising for days, weeks and months the effort of these pails into insignificance and is easily compensated by other savings versus a keel yacht.
Two trailer sailers at Coral Sea Marina in Airlie Beach. Us above coming in from 8 weeks out in the islands and completely packed up on water in two hours ready to retrieve onto trailer and commencing driving home immediately. The other, one of three cruising in company for 10 days just about to set out.

Wow you can tell that they are both carrying a lot of weight and the Magnum in particular looks very low in the water.

I see a lot of both keelers and trailer sailers slowly disintegrating without much use. Either you are a regular weeknight or weekend racer or have the time on your hands to go sailing for extended periods or pretty quickly they turn into a place to pour money into without much reward. The big advantage of trailer sailers is the ability to change cruising grounds and open up new experiences with far less effort and if you have a place to moor or pen a keeler then a trailer sailer can generally sit there as well.
If you have the property capable of storing it at home on the driveway then maintenance and upgrades become relatively easy especially during the off season. You still need somewhere to store the trailer which is similar to a caravan which a larger well sorted trailer sailer can be as well.
Outboards are also easier and cheaper to maintain never mind replace than many inboards. Both have their pros and cons but a big trailerable does have a much wider range of sheltered waters cruising destinations available. You won't have these anchorages accessible in a keel yacht!

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WomblingFree said..
Hey all,

Windsurfed many years ago (mid 90's to early 00's), and before that a lot of dinghy racing and sailing in the UK on the south coast.

Did Competent Crew with wife and teens earlier this year, and we're looking for a boat for some coastal day sailing, and odd weekends.

If we're looking to spend max $20k, whats the best we can do? I'd prefer to sail, not spend time fixing glass but I'm handy with tools to do basic maintenance and happy to pay pro's for stuff like standing rigging, if its still within budget :) . We're near the Pittwater in Sydney.. so use will likely be around Pittwater up to Broken Bay, possibly down to Sydney Harbour once we're more experienced (and have Day Skipper under our belts).

Looking around, seeing Compass 28 /29's, Top Hat's, and a few others in my price range.. but having not sailed any of them, interested to know what models are worth keeping an eye out for?

Adams 31. CC . all hard work has been done. New Volvo engine.

I think you might be interested in this listing for sale on Boatsonline.com.au
Let me know what do you think . Late Jo knew what he was doing.
Good luck



Laing Simmons Young Marine

94 George St

Avalon
NSW 2107 Australia

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WomblingFree said..
Hey all,

Windsurfed many years ago (mid 90's to early 00's), and before that a lot of dinghy racing and sailing in the UK on the south coast.

Did Competent Crew with wife and teens earlier this year, and we're looking for a boat for some coastal day sailing, and odd weekends.

If we're looking to spend max $20k, whats the best we can do? I'd prefer to sail, not spend time fixing glass but I'm handy with tools to do basic maintenance and happy to pay pro's for stuff like standing rigging, if its still within budget :) . We're near the Pittwater in Sydney.. so use will likely be around Pittwater up to Broken Bay, possibly down to Sydney Harbour once we're more experienced (and have Day Skipper under our belts).

Looking around, seeing Compass 28 /29's, Top Hat's, and a few others in my price range.. but having not sailed any of them, interested to know what models are worth keeping an eye out for?

Adams 31. CC . all hard work has been done

I think you might be interested in this listing for sale on Boatsonline.com.au
Let me know what do you think . Late Jo knew what he was doing.
Good luck




Laing Simmons Young Marine

94 George St

Avalon
NSW 2107 Australia