Hi folks, first post here, my name is John. I live on the north shore of LI, NY in the US. We are lucky enough to have a beach a short walk away down a steep bluff. But during the autumn and winter the winds change around to the north and blow hard onto our beach. The beach becomes un-fun. Bah humbug.

So I was thinking. Always dangerous. How about making a land yacht? This would make that strong wind a plus rather than a minus.

So the wheels started turning and various cheap readily available materials started morphing together in some sort of controlled chaos of creativity and beer drinking.

For the steering my neighbor supplied an old kids bike that was being thrown away. For the mast and boom I had large bamboo plants that had been cut down six months earlier lying in the wood lot next door nicely dried.

For the sail I had a genoa that I never use from my West Wight Potter sailboat.

What I did not have is a welder so I used wood and metal electrical conduit for the frame.

So I threw together these various things into something resembling a land yacht. Although calling it a yacht seems a stretch.

I fully expect that many things on it will change as I gain experience with it and I look at it as an experiment right now. Will my beach allow sailing on it? The sand at low tide is fairly firm although somewhat rocky and I have ridden a fat tire bike on it with no problem, but until the wind moves me I won't believe that it can work.

So anyhow here are some pics, go ahead and laugh, I do. :) In the experienced opinion of you guys, is this thing going to work?






sorry it's sideways











I turned my back for a second and next thing you know this guy was trying to steal my beautiful creation. Luckily his arms were too short to uncleat the mainsheet. He was sent back to the garden with a firm scolding.

Welcome to the forum! You will find a very supportive and fun group here.

I can see you having a lot of fun.

Thanks! Yeah, if I have half as much fun sailing it as building it I'll be happy.

I wouldn't use the cleat while sailing as your reaction time at speed needs to be fast. You may need some pulley advantage to cope with rope friction through those eyes under load. The rear wheels may need to be fatter but suck it and see. Have fun

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I'm used to cleating the main sheet on my sailboat but I guess this is different. I expect that the sheeting will change and more pulleys may be needed. Thanks.

Also, I am going to be epoxying another board under the main frame member to reduce twisting from the front wheel.

I am so anxious to see if this thing works...... or will things crack and break as I sit there unmoving on the beach.

I do love it when somebody reinvents the wheel, and does in a simple ,no fuss way that reminds us how and why we all started doing this.
thats a YESSSSS from me!

Select to expand quote

landyacht said..
I do love it when somebody reinvents the wheel, and does in a simple ,no fuss way that reminds us how and why we all started doing this.
thats a YESSSSS from me!

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Just a few more details to take care of and then I have to wait for the NW winds which should be coming with the winter.

The funny thing is that when I was 15, 45 years ago, I started building one after reading about them in Popular Science. It languished in the lot next door without a sail until the bulldozer clearing the lot crushed that early dream. But again, it lives!! I like taking my time.

dont forget a seat belt!

Hi John great build. I also live on Long Island ( south shore) and we have a great group of land sailors that sail almost every weekend in the fall and winter months. At Jones beach parking field #1. Come by and interduce your self and bring your yacht. many self built yachts there and some blo karts also. We love to have more sailors always makes it more fun. Many of the sailors are from the North Shore area also and travel down to sail often, so come on by if you get a chance. P.M. me for my cell# and i can tell you if were meeting that day.

Hi Yankee! I was wondering if there were any land yachters on LI. Thanks for the compliment and the invite. That must be some fast sailing on the parking lot there. My yacht is not very transportable as is though so I don't think I'll be running down there anytime soon. But who knows? I would love to check out the scene there though even if I don't bring my rig.

I was looking at your photos and I'm very impressed with your work there. Good stuff. Your yacht must fly. I'll bet your sailboat is a fast one too.

Select to expand quote

Test pilot 1 said..
dont forget a seat belt!

Well that's what the gnome is for. He's my test pilot.

Seriously though, I am not sure how much a seat belt would add to my safety. I'll be wearing my motorcycle helmet and since I'll be sailing in the cold weather I'll have on a thick layer of clothes. Plus the beach is fairly soft although the occasional rock is pretty hard.

But as I write this I'm thinking that a seat belt would be good if only to keep me in place if I hit a rock. I don't want to get tossed out merely by rough terrain.

OK. you convinced me. A seatbelt will be installed. Thanks.

Select to expand quote

Test pilot 1 said..
dont forget a seat belt!

While you are at it............

How about something to keep your feet attached to your ankles?

It gets messy when you run over your own feet at umpteen squillion miles an hour!

Some straps made of recycled seat belt webbing on the foot steering bar so your feet don't slip off as easily,

or maybe some plywood or coreflute plastic as a lightweight floor ziptied to the frame?

stephen

Select to expand quote

sn said..

Test pilot 1 said..
dont forget a seat belt!

While you are at it............

How about something to keep your feet attached to your ankles?

It gets messy when you run over your own feet at umpteen squillion miles an hour!

Some straps made of recycled seat belt webbing on the foot steering bar so your feet don't slip off as easily,

or maybe some plywood or coreflute plastic as a lightweight floor ziptied to the frame?

stephen

Yeah, thanks, that is another thing I need. The plywood floor would give the most protection against rock strikes.

Geez, this project is starting to sound dangerous! Maybe I should stick to motorcycle riding.

Well, I installed a floor for the feet and did a bunch of final details on the "yacht". Tomorrow the winds are forecast to be 25 MPH and running straight down the beach. I theoretically should be able to maiden sail her, if only in one direction. My main concern is the strength of the bamboo mast. I guess I'll find out.

I suppose I should get video.

Went down to the beach with just the mast sail and boom to test it and it looks like the mast will be strong enough. Bamboo is amazing. Wow, there is lot power in that wind. I think that with wind at 20 mph a forty square foot sail will have around 40 pounds of pressure on it and it felt like that at times. The wind was unsteady as it came off both sea and land. Hopefully tomorrow it will be more directly onshore. I think the duckling is ready. The sheeting might work. I straightened it out, but it remains to be seen if I need more pulley power. Right now it's one to one.

The boom is quite high on the mast, it just seems to make a better sail shape there. The problem of course is that it is now on one side of the sail. However, since my runs will be one way then the other for miles, I can fairly easily unsnap the boom from the mast and move it to the other side when I change directions.

I don't have a seatbelt yet, I'm really not sure I want stay with it if it crashes anyway. I'll take it slow. Maybe.

Maiden voyage today!!

To call it a voyage is an overstatement. More like a short roll.

Wind was 20 - 25 mph so there was plenty of power. One problem is floatation. I need fatter tires for my beach.

Another problem is that I think the sail was too big for the high wind and the boom was certainly too flexible, probably the mast also. I have grave doubts that the mast could handle those winds even with a stronger boom.

Perhaps the biggest problem, and one I blissfully overlooked, is that getting it back up the bluff afterward is very difficult and a full body workout. Trailering down to the beach with the truck is sounding better.

Here is a two minute video of this adventure. A young couple walking the beach were quite amused.




I need to take a step back here and reconnoiter. If I just get to a parking lot my rig will work. If I shorten it, get floaty tires and get a windsurf rig it would be better. If I just buy one.....nahhh!

I must say though, even that short pitiful powered roll I had was a thrill.

dont give up keep persevering you've identified its shortcomings fix em and have fun.It rolled, in theory it works refine that

Just a few things, always start into into the wind or close to it, (never down wind as this then puts ALL the force onto the front wheel).
Make the main sheet rope shorter and tie a fig8 knot in the end so that the rig can't swing around that far.
You shouldn't need balloon tyres as the sand is firm enough for those tyres shown by the indication of the foot prints in the sand.
Layover steering works MUCH better than upright steering like you have, upright steering works by putting a lot of force on the tread of the tyre where as roll over is a lot more floaty. Think of the angle of a pushbike or motor bike front wheel when its in motion and turning a corner.

Thanks for the comments guys. Trying to get my head around the layover steering thing. I think I get it. When the wheel is turned the forces are very sideways on mine, the tire has no time to climb the sand, whereas with layover the forces tend to make the tire climb up on the sand. I think.

But Gizmo, I am not convinced that the tires are floaty enough, even if started up wind. The back tires were also digging in the whole time. Perhaps if they had a more square profile. As it is their shape is sharply round. I only had about 12 pounds pressure in them.

I know it will sail on the parking lot, but I really want to sail the beach. I've got the bug! That feeble little roll I got was enough!

I have my eyes on these. http://www.wheeleez.com/beach-wheels-polyurethane.php

They are 3 psi low pressure tires. The 19 inch by nine ones are rated for 264 pounds each and should work like a charm with the added advantage of shock absorbing. The beach does have some rocks here and there. They would also allow me to sail on the dry deeper sand up on the beach where it is flatter.

But they are pricey and what if it still doesn't work? I guess I could always sell them on E Bay.

What to do.

That beach looks to be as hard as the one we mostly use. 2 ply wheelbarrow tyres work for us I run mine at 25 psi
Getting started in the soft sand near the top of the beach can be hard going sometimes
We always sail in the intertidal zone
You will need a minimum of 4.5 Sq M of sail area unless it is blowing a gale
I am guessing you have less than that
Weight is a factor also Larger people need larger sail area more so on the beach than tarmac

I have 3.7 square meters, (40 square feet) and not in the optimal aspect ratio I suppose. I weigh 160 lbs. But wow there was a lot of power on it in the 20-25 knot winds. Too much for the boom and probably the mast also. I was not able to bring it perpendicular to the wind. The sheeting could be better also. I see a windsurf sail and mast in my future.

Another factor is that the intertidal strip has perhaps a ten degree slope, making it a little more difficult. It's not like those nice flat beaches that some have.


The wheel situation is frustrating. I think that the wheel barrow wheels you guys have are just a little wider and maybe a little flatter profile. The sand on my beach is kinda weird also. Sometimes it seems firm but then just gives out. It is being moved around a lot and water seeps out of it making it soft in places.

With that wind and that sail area with your weight you should have been getting some action
so that only leaves the beach and your tyres not suitable for it I imagine .
As you suspected
I confess I only just looked at the video the sand does look soft the way the front tyre was
ploughing it up As Gizmo said its best to start off facing up wind or a little off it
Keep experimenting ! Its all fun

My Ebay shopping cart has three 16 by 7 inch high float poly wheels, a used windsurfer mast and a 5 meter windsurfer sail in it. I'm just trying to get the nerve to push the button. It's about 500 US dollars all together.

On the horns of a dilemma someone once said or something like that
I feel your pain and your indecision unfortunately only you can make that choice
Keep us posted we want to see you having fun on that beach one way or another

i cant think of a harder wind direction or width of beach for a first sail. plenty of experienced sailors would give up after a couple of tacks. . the yacht and sail really are not suited to really difficult conditions like that , so great effort all round

Wow, that was a lot of wind!
Nothing broke (you or the kart), so that's something positive.

On the blokart we use 6x4.00 tires. A lot of people sail on the beach at low tide with them.
They are also wheelbarrow tires, but I think they are a bit wider than yours.
You should be able to find them at hardware/home-improvement stores.

I can't wait for your next installment!

Cheers,

Geoff S.

Thanks for the comments, tips and encouragement guys. I pushed the button....... three 16.5 inch by 7 inch wide high float tires are on their way. What have I done.

I'm going to hold off on the windsurf mast and sail for now. I'll try wrapping the mast with strapping tape and get a stiffer boom. I need more pulleys and a longer mainsheet.

I suspect that the needs for my sail will be different than for others. I am going to need power more than speed so my current long footed sail may be ok.

As far as getting it back up the bluff, I'm going to get a 12v electric winch. I'll put a post in at the top of the bluff. I don't know how I carried it up last time.

My plan gets crazier every day!

Worst case scenario, there will be some used high float wheels for sale on eBay in a few months.

But I fully expect to be zooming down the beach powered only by wind and ingenuity :)

To be contd............

Select to expand quote

searunner said..
I'll try wrapping the mast with strapping tape...

For maximum stiffness, you will want to run the tape along the mast (fibers running top-to-bottom).
You will probably need more than one layer (probably many more than one - maybe 5+...).
I'd wrap tape around the outside of everything to hold it together.

Cheers,

Geoff S.

Select to expand quote

GeoffSobering said..

searunner said..
I'll try wrapping the mast with strapping tape...

For maximum stiffness, you will want to run the tape along the mast (fibers running top-to-bottom).
You will probably need more than one layer (probably many more than one - maybe 5+...).
I'd wrap tape around the outside of everything to hold it together.

Cheers,

Geoff S.

Yeah, I was thinking of a radial wrap to help prevent splitting and breaking, but your suggestion would add stiffness. Good idea. Maybe I should both. Or just make them long radial wraps in both directions.

I have made hollow wooden spars in the past for a sailing dinghy. But they were a lot work and craftmanship. I want an easier way this time :).

If you can get your hands on an old secondhand windsurf mast at the right price it would be a good way to go

Select to expand quote

Hiko said..
If you can get your hands on an old secondhand windsurf mast at the right price it would be a good way to go

You mean that a piece of bamboo is not as good as fiberglass/carbon fiber?

I at least have to see how much a piece of bamboo will take. It took some effort to cut the twigs off of it.

But yeah, a used windsurf sail and mast would cost less than just the wheels so far and I'm sure would supply more power. But I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here