I read in a number of posts that wheels are 8 x 400 with 20mm bearings. However on the LLFM plans that I have printed out the wheels are listed as 8 x 250PW(NB) N6204 Housing

I cant find 8 x 250 listed on the Fallshaw site so I assume the plans are in error in this regard.. or do I hasve the wrong plans

I have a selection of wheels but they are 4" & 6" so have to buy 8" ones and local sellers in NZ don't seem to have 8 x 400 listed so may have to import them unless I opt for cheap Chinese copies

Plastic rim 8 x 250 can be found in the spare parts for pneumatic wheels part of the Fallshaw catalogue. I think the 250 refers to the rim width, not the tyre width.
Blokarts use 6" wheels so no reason you can't try them until some 8" wheels turn up. You might need to slit and weld the stub axles on the opposite site to the slits and weld of the chassis axle housing to pick up some ground clearance because of their smaller diameter. The beauty of the LLM design is the only extra cost when you change wheels is for the stub axle, a short length of square tube with a round rod in the end to suit the new wheel bearings or if you are lucky the axle will fit both the new and the old..
We bought a pair of "Chinese " Fallshaws last year to replace well worn wheelbarrow wheels on rear of the kids mini. They came with the correct 25mm bearing type number (wheelbarrow bearing size is 1") but felt rattly from new. (though not as bad as wheelbarrow type bearings). They worked but were not the final solution. The old wheelbarrow wheels were the heavier steel hub with grease nipple versions and have since been turned to take 6205 /6304 bearings which will fit onto 25mm / 20mm axles. Both bearing types have a 52mm outer diameter so can be interchanged on hubs. These run smoothly and have been put back on the kids mini which now has an extension for a second seat and purrs along.
If 8" wheels are scarce the front end will work well with 16" or 20" pushbike wheels, especially with light pilots. 16" bike wheels are the same diameter as 400 x 8 wheelbarrow wheels. The more spokes in the wheels the stronger. Competition BMX might have 48 spokes versus the 24 spokes of a cheap Christmas bargain bike. The fairly lengthy recent post on front end design will help here. In some ways pushbike wheels are easier to make a front end with because you already have the wheel centered on the fork and only need to get the fork angle correct. (which is more difficult with the 20" wheels because you run out of room). On our minis the 20mm front steering shaft is welded into a slot cut well and truly into the fork assembly between the two fork arms. All of the headstem tube is cut off. No reason 4" wheels will not work on the front, your fork will need to be longer. They will not work as well as larger diameter wheels.

Specialist Wheels and Castors in Sylvia park road Mt Wellington
have supplied me in the past with Fallshaw 8 inch wheels and bearings bushes etc
They had the wheels listed as 8x250 Pw( nb) Not sure what that all means

Thanks guys.

Looks like the Fallshaw 8 x 400 and 8 x 250 are the same - just a difference between whether they quote tyre or rim width. I did not find the 8 x 250s on the SWC site''probably because I was looking for 8 x 400

I have a 20" bike wheel for the front 20 only need 2 wheels for the rear and I'll do as Mulgachook suggests and go with 6" initially. The wheels are off a ride on mower and have near new tyres (not ideal for a land yacht as they are heavy and big knobblies on them) so I might yet try and sell them and put the money towards the Fallshaws from the outset. Funds are bit short as my son and daughter in law just got scammed out of their savings...2 days after their wedding, so we had to help them financially with rent and food money. Some real lowlifes out there

I need to look deeper at the stub axle setup in the plans.

Monday night will be my first attempt at welding so wish me luck. I plan to do some test welds on some old tube from a garden swing to make sure I don't make a total Mares Nest of it.

I had 16 inch bike wheels on the front of my minis for a few years and they were fine.
Eventually died when people ran into solid objects with them. [ fences, driftwood and rocks ]
The rears need to be more substantial though to cope with the sideways forces
Sorry about the son and D in Law's misfortune and the timing

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Local suppliers SWC have stated they can make up Fallshaw Webbed Rims with a diamond tread tyre.
With this setup reduced to 20mm bore the cost would be $72.71+gst. A bit expensive but so far I am only out $20 for steel and $100 for mast and sail so I might splurge on the genuine article

My preference would be ribbed tyres rather than the diamond pattern knobblies
Less drag Years ago we used to cut the knobbles off if we could not get any thing else and make them into slicks
Those wheels were $ 28.87 in Nov 2017 same supplier

Hi Hiko...yes I will get the ribbed tyres as I thought Knobblies would be too much drag based on riding my Mountain Bike with knobblies on the road. Prices have sure escalated since 2017 but as I am probably only going to do this once I might as well do it right. I thought my bike front wheel was 20" but find it is actually 16" which might make it easier to set up the steering geometry

Question..what it the overall width of the rear track on the LLFM. I have the .5m length of RHS cut, bent and welded as per plans and assume the 200mm length of a 20mm bolt welded in to it will be all that is required based on the plans. As I have only tacked axle to spine at this stage I can remove it and make it longer in need (hopefully Not!).

One lot of good news.. Kiwibank refunded ALL of the money my son and daughter in law were scammed out of and we got our loan back from the kids. A great result all round and good on Kiwibank

The rear end ends up about 1240mm wide to the start of the wheel stubs plus the width of your two wheels. The 0.5m length of 35 x 35mm RHS you have cut, bent, welded and tacked to the spine (inner chassis axle) in conjunction with the two 0.5m lengths of 30 x 30mm RHS outer axles with 20mm stubs that telescope into the inner axle with an overlap of 130mm each side ( 100 plus 30mm in from ends for the axle retaining bolt) give this.
There are three different drawings in the plans that show details of each of these items - inner chassis axle, outer axles and outer axle wheel stub possibilities but no overall drawing to show how the parts fit together. Another drawing shows the mounting bracket for the rear seat / sheet support that also attaches to the axle / spine junction. The photo below is one that Chook2 posted showing his improvements and having all of the rear axle pieces on one piece of paper. The bend at the end of the outer axles to level up the wheels can be made at a later stage easily using the same technique used to put the bends in the inner chassis axle. The rear end in the second photo is to the original plans with straight outer axles, it is hard to see where the axles slide in to each other. The third photo is from the rear and also shows the seat mount attached. paint highlights the different axle components.
How did your welding go? I burn holes through the thinner axle tubing every now and again if I lose concentration and try and weld too much at once. Unless you are intending to race in competition and meet class rules the overall width is not too critical. What is on the plans works well.

Thanks @Mulgachook That is exactly what I was looking for and has highlighted my first cock-up..the RHS I attached to the spine is 30 x 30 and not 35 x 35. Just as well it is only tacked in place so I can cut it off and replace it with 35 x 35- unless the sleeving would work the other way by sliding 35 x 35 over the 30 x 30?.

No holes so far but tack welds are easy..its the finishing that will be the big test

No, the outer axles need to slide inside the spine axle. The 12mm rod diagonal braces would foul any attempts to slide outside the spine. All is not lost, the 30mm bit you have already done can be cut up to make lots of rear seat / mainsheet supports which are only short sections. Time to start cutting all the bits for the back end of your second and third landyachts.

Without any doubt the LLFM is an outstanding yacht and has many followers,but there are better designs to consider,having built 6 land yachts from a Cl5 ,a copy blokart and class5.6.s. both LLYM style and Variations of it. I suggest.....
Once you finish your LLFM the next one you build and since this is very addictive there will be a next one consider a Y framed chassis. You will be impressed with the increase in overall performance and ,comfort.
When building to fit in with the mini specs the basic dimentions generally prevents wide rear axles, wider rear axles give benifits....A bit of suspension , the longer downwind axle absorbs the sideways force in a gust,then gives that energy back as the gust eases ..both result in more speed.
You can build a Y frame to conform to the rear axle width but have longer axles thus gaining the above,the seat can then be dropped into the space between the Y thus lowering the C of G.
Whilst the LLFM is all about building from any material that is available free(Lamp posts etc).
Stainless sections are just as weldable (Correct wire and gas) as mild steel which needs painting and rust protection.welding galvanised mild steel,In my view, is asking for health troubles from the zinc coating,even if ground off to weld,you can,t get rid of it from inside the section.
Most of the top racers in the uk,one of our locals compets at international level,all all useing Y framed designs. PLenty of advice on here.(You do know that by searching for seabreeze construction/general page 2)will bring up all of the old posts going back year.


Have a look here at Les bythenorthsea photos some excellent builds and ideas www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Profile/Details.aspx?member=Bynorthsea

Good luck

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mulgachook said..
No, the outer axles need to slide inside the spine axle. The 12mm rod diagonal braces would foul any attempts to slide outside the spine. All is not lost, the 30mm bit you have already done can be cut up to make lots of rear seat / mainsheet supports which are only short sections. Time to start cutting all the bits for the back end of your second and third landyachts.

Good point and one I overlooked..out with the grinder

Kennet said " Once you finish your LLFM the next one you build and since this is very addictive there will be a next one"

Normally I would agree but time and health are not on my side. At 77yo with a serious lung issue I might be lucky to get this one finished. I asked GP for prognosis and he said "don't take out any magazine subscriptions". I am enjoying it so far. It started as a demo project for local schoolboys but that programme folded so I am doing for my own interest. One other guy in our club has also started building one but he is not using the plans. There is a lot of interest from other members so I suspect more will follow

Gotta stay busy and keep the mind active.

Why is the Fallshaw wheel strictly only sold in Australia? Do they make them there too?

Someone should see about them making some wider wheels or ones rated to take higher wheel pressure.

I believe they are made in Australia They have proven to be up to the task of landyachts and their side forces
There are other wheels around that will do the job also Some are plastic some are alloy and at various prices

Whether you are buying any bearings, see to it that what you are taking home is of superior quality. Just remember that skateboard bearings must be kept clean and well-oiled to sustain their long-term performance.

Yeah..well my one wheel came with a plastic "1 inch Bearing" despite me asking for proper 20mm bearings. They then sent me a plastic sleeve to adapt the 1" to 20mm. Not too worried at this stage as I did not pay for the proper bearing and I really only needed it to set up the axles. I'll get decent bearings when I buy the other two wheels. Its been a slow process getting this far but hopefully I am about to get started on the steering end of the LLFM.

Once I have the steering sorted I'll get stuck in to the small bits such as seat mounts but I figured I would get more enthusiasm at being able to see the final product in appearance if not in terms of usability. Not a problem so far as use goes as we are about to be inundated with Aucklanders being released out of nearly 4 months lockdown just in time for summer holidays at the beach.

I still have to source material for a boom but one of the guys at MenzShed has some Aluminium tube that might do although it might need a wooden insert to stop it bending...I have not see it yet some will make the decision when I do.