2 years ago I started looking into making a land yacht based on the Lake Lefoy Mini plans, but I guess life got in the way (damn it!) so it never really progressed. I joined a 'Mens Shed' in the hope I might gain access to some better tooling (like a lathe and welding gear) and maybe a supply of raw materials... but alas the one I joined is really cramped for space so not a great deal of help in that department.

I did get myself a Kawasaki 355mm metal cut-off saw using airpoints (which is still in it's box) and the Fallshaw wheels.
Initially I could only get the wheels with 47mm bearings ...but apparently the 42mm OD bearings are the way to go because the bushings are stronger (thicker)... so I purchased a set of 42mm OD bearings and bushes when they became available.
(I figured I can always use the 47mm OD bearings on a second yacht if this goes well.)


I also managed to borrow a mig welder.... unfortunately all of these are still sitting in my garage gathering dust. :-(

During Covid lockdown I had a bit of time to do a garage clean up now I've placed one of the wheels on my workbench as a visual and mental prod to pull my finger out and get on with it!

My scavenging skills have been sadly lacking though! While I'm always eyeing up the local street signs, short of doing a midnight raid to illegally acquire one, I haven't found a legitimate source for this fairly essential part! Maybe I need to hunt out who fixes all the damaged signs for the council or track down a scrap metal dealer. Any other suggestions where to look?

I did luck upon some hefty bolts that fit the wheel bearings nicely and spacers that look like they are almost perfect to fit between the bearings in the wheels, so I'm chuffed with that find. I'm thinking maybe I could attach the wheels using the bolts screwed into a square steel block that fits and pins into the axel and so are removable.


Today I scored a cheap carbon fibre Windsurfer mast...all I know is that it's a Mistral 460...and now I have my eye on some cheap windsurfer sails.


To help find/scrounge the right sized materials, I've 3D printed a gauge that I can use to easily identify a 60mm diameter tube, 35mm, 30mm and 25mm square, 12mm solid round and measure 2mm and 3mm material thicknesses. It fits in my wallet so it's very handy for scavenging....

So now it's back to searching the forums to sift out as much valuable info as I can.....and scavenging!

I have seen somewhere that if the mast step is welded at 90 degrees instead of tilted back, an unmodified windsurfer sail can be used....but I wonder how that works for head clearance.
I'm not adverse to modifying a sail but it would mean the purchase of an old sewing machine because I don't think the wife will allow me to use hers . It's kind of a decision that needs to be made before welding starts so I would appreciate some feedback and advise from anyone who has tried an unmodified windsurfer sail.

I aim to use this to cruise along the beach rather than any serious racing, but always up for a bit of fun if the wind comes up, so what's the opinion on performance of modified vs unmodified windsurfer sails?

Anyone have tips or repairing sails? (Looks like many second hand sails have the odd tear.)

Any advise or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Cheers

Mark

theres loads of advice ref the design and building of L yacht's,so just search the forum ,one tip,if you go to google and search for seabreeze land yachting forum general page 2 .It still brings up all of the old pages now removed from the live forum. As to repairing windsurf sails rather than stitching go on line a buy a roll self adhesive spinnaker repair tape,very strong and various colours including clear,also for larger areas you can buy clear fablon sheet (May be different name down under) again very strong if used on both sides of the sail. Good luck.

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kennatt said..
theres loads of advice ref the design and building of L yacht's,so just search the forum ,one tip,if you go to google and search for seabreeze land yachting forum general page 2 .It still brings up all of the old pages now removed from the live forum. As to repairing windsurf sails rather than stitching go on line a buy a roll self adhesive spinnaker repair tape,very strong and various colours including clear,also for larger areas you can buy clear fablon sheet (May be different name down under) again very strong if used on both sides of the sail. Good luck.

Thanks Kennett! I've been use that 'page 2' trick and finding a lot more posts which is great!

ie www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction?page=2

Bought a Mig welder today and picked up a cheap sail...but I may have gone overboard...it seems huge.
It's over 5m tall and about 2.3m wide.....someone wrote on it 7.4
CAUTION BEWARE OF GUARD DOG

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markkiwi said I have seen somewhere that if the mast step is welded at 90 degrees instead of tilted back, an unmodified windsurfer sail can be used....but I wonder how that works for head clearance.

Do the 90 degree bit!!
Until Chook did experiment 9636873 [lefroy mini with adjustable mast rake] we all used the "mast step tilted back", which required the sails to be recut to perform best.

With the rearward raked mast, modified sails gave much better high speed performance [on hard - low drag surfaces like bitumen carparks, salt lakes, claypans, compacted beaches] but had difficulty getting started on softer surfaces - much like driving a car stuck in top gear.

Standard sails tended to suit higher drag surfaces like grassed sports grounds [and some beaches] due to the effect of having a lower top speed but more low down grunt - often described as like having your car stuck in 2nd gear.

Chooks never ending experimentation found that the 90 degree mast worked much better than we had all anticipated - and it makes using a standard sail much easier, and head clearance is improved.

As for scrounging - I used to collect masts and sails for Chook [Esperance] and Paul [AKA "Landyacht"] in Boulder, by visiting a nearby council recycling depot - supply was plentiful and cheap - usually no more than $10 to $15 for a good sail and mast, sometimes cleaning them out gave me even better prices.
Unfortunately though, the council privatised the depot, with the result of prices going through the roof [$80 for a broken mast!!!] so I gave up on them.
When supplies ran low at the depot, or Chook and Paul needed lots of in a hurry, I would go to the SEABREEZE Windsurfers page, and ask if any of the windsurfing crew around Perth had old or unwanted sails and masts - even damaged masts can be used to make booms, or to extend a short mast.
Many windsurfers are afflicted with "shiney kit syndrome" and have a compulsive need to buy the latest gear every season - meaning their long suffering family are tripping over piles of supposedly "obsolete" rigging.
My best score was about a dozen sails and masts that were hanging up in a carport ceiling, all free - some still had price tags on them!!

Torn sails can be taped, or sewn by hand, even delaminated sails can be used until they fall apart - then the good bits are kept for patching.

Stick closely to the plans, only upgrades being the 90 degree mast, the reinforcing strap under the mast step, and plating over the rear of the chassis spine tube to prevent it tearing apart over time - and keeping salt out of the chassis spine tube.
Before you plate the rear of the tube, pour in a cup full of linseeed oil so it will be able to coat the inside surface of the tube.

have fun!!

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markkiwi said..It's over 5m tall and about 2.3m wide.....someone wrote on it 7.4
CAUTION BEWARE OF GUARD DOG

7.4 square meter sail is a good score - it will be good for lighter winds

sidecar or trailer for guard dog is recommended

A sail of that dimemtions will be about 7.5. As above, good for light winds but one problem you will have is that of finding a mast long enough. Bearing in mind that that you need about another 0.5 to fit into the mast tube to keep the foot of the sail high enough to see under /round.so expect to fashion a tip extension. One thing with uncut windsurfer sails is that to get the best out of them they need the appropriate matched mast(Length and stiffness).Otherwise they don;t really work that well . In the larger sizes ,5 m and upwards its essential that they are down hauled enough so that they hold the centre of effort well forwards and keep it locked there. If not as the wind increases the effort moves back and causes the power to drive over the rear of the yacht and they then tend to break out at the back and head up into the wind.
Most 7.5s are designed to set on a 460 /25 stiffness mast, and the extra length is achieved with an extention that fits into the bottom.so that gives you an idea of how much you need to consider with mast lengths.
There are 5.20 masts but they are rare second hand and too stiff for 7.5M, normally used on 8.5 upwards. But if you can find one grab it
,Because the sail need to be higher up the mast to use on a land yacht ,the actual stiffness drops since the lower part of the mast is not in the sail as far,so less extension needed.
Keep looking and get a second sail around 5m,and you will have a good wind range covered(8 to 15MPH)

mast extension = either a bit of salvaged broken mast added to the top, or [no kidding - it works] "borrow" the households vacuum cleaner pipe and bung it on top!

warning though, the use of a vac. tube can generate a lot of noise if you are not careful

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sn said..
mast extension = either a bit of salvaged broken mast added to the top, or [no kidding - it works] "borrow" the households vacuum cleaner pipe and bung it on top!

warning though, the use of a vac. tube can generate a lot of noise if you are not careful

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kennatt said..
A sail of that dimemtions will be about 7.5. As above, good for light winds but one problem you will have is that of finding a mast long enough. Bearing in mind that that you need about another 0.5 to fit into the mast tube to keep the foot of the sail high enough to see under /round.so expect to fashion a tip extension. One thing with uncut windsurfer sails is that to get the best out of them they need the appropriate matched mast(Length and stiffness).Otherwise they don;t really work that well . In the larger sizes ,5 m and upwards its essential that they are down hauled enough so that they hold the centre of effort well forwards and keep it locked there. If not as the wind increases the effort moves back and causes the power to drive over the rear of the yacht and they then tend to break out at the back and head up into the wind.
Most 7.5s are designed to set on a 460 /25 stiffness mast, and the extra length is achieved with an extention that fits into the bottom.so that gives you an idea of how much you need to consider with mast lengths.
There are 5.20 masts but they are rare second hand and too stiff for 7.5M, normally used on 8.5 upwards. But if you can find one grab it
,Because the sail need to be higher up the mast to use on a land yacht ,the actual stiffness drops since the lower part of the mast is not in the sail as far,so less extension needed.
Keep looking and get a second sail around 5m,and you will have a good wind range covered(8 to 15MPH)

Thanks for the info, I'm not sure what the stiffness is of the 2 piece carbon fibre mast I have secured, is there any way to figure that out?
I'm also a novice in this sailing world so am trying to get my head around the centre of effort business... but am assuming is the effective point of force of the wind on the sail. So am I correct in assuming that if the mast stiffness matches the sail, when it's downhauled with enough pressure the sail is pulled taut and this means when the wind hits the sail, the effective force is near the mast? But if the sail isn't taut, the effective force is somehow further away from the mast (ie rear of the sail) and that causes the back of the yacht to be pushed sideways if you don't release the pressure on the sail?
You mention a tip extension and then an extension that fits in the bottom...do you mean a tip extension is used on a land yacht to raise the sail, whereas when these large sails are used on windsurfers they have an extension on the bottom?

During my searches for masts and sails I came across this...

which was going ridiculously cheap ... so I placed a bid and surprisingly I actually won it. I still have collect it as it's down country and it will no doubt need some work but I figured even if its completely knackered I can get some bits off it.

It does create a bit of dilemma on where to spend my time though, I still want to build my lefroy mini and now I'm the proud owner of a second yacht that's probably well beyond my non existent piloting skills but I'm keen to give it a go. Fun times ahead!

Stand by for the first crash report!

the above is a class 5, could be a kirawee bundeena, very fast and competitive,You are lucky to find one for reasonable money they don't come up for sale in the UK very often, they do (normally) strip down so if you have a large enough estate type vehicle can be transported inside, or on roof rack. It looks in decent condition,the sail will be a standard 5.5
They are easy to sail in a straight line,and since they weigh around 50k are very stable even in strong winds. BUT they are designed to be fast and therefor there is very little weight on the front wheel .The skill comes in when turning, downwind is not too bad but into the wind the front wheel doesn't hold the road so to speak and can skid straight on. You need to develop the technique of sitting up,ducking under the boom and throwing your weight forwards to get the wheel to grab the surface. Some place sand or lead weight on the front to help in this.
I have a similar UK fed 5 and I have fitted drag brakes on both sides and can skid the back end round,with hand brake turns(Obv, on sand)
Not much to go wrong with them,just the normal metal fatigue on chassis,easy welding repair,and same with sail. Only thing to watch for is damage on the wheel rims.The larger wheels are expensive new and again never seen any used ones for sale UK .If too much damage the pod, mast ,sail and other bits would be a good way to build up another Yacht,the hardest thing to make is the seat,youve now got one

as to sails/mast, yes the centre of effort is held by the tight sail and mast towards the front of the sail,remember that these sails are designed for windsurfing so need to have a fixed power point so that the sailor can hold it down. That point is placed as near as possible at shoulder height in the centre of the windsurfers chest spread equally between his arms as he holds the wishbone boom. If not rigged properly that effort flows back as the wind increases,the C of E follows and the rig becomes back handed and unmanageable (If you watch a windsurfer rigging ,before he goes out you will see most stick the rig into the sand and hold the sail up in the wind to check the C of E is set where he wants it to stay).For windsurfing they all need a lower extension to alter the mast length and attach the rubber Universal joint,to fit to the board. Not required for Land yacht,the length is achieved with tip extensions ,But you need a longer mast because you lose a good bit by fitting it into the mast tube base on Yacht so that sail is actually further up the mast(on windsurfer the bottom of the sail is y about 4 inch from the deck of the board)However too long tip extensions change the bend and stiffness of the mast so its a suck it and see system. One thing to remember is that you need to make sure the mast base tube is wide enough for the Standard diameter mast to fit down into it.One other way is to make up a stepped diameter extension,that will fit down into the mast base tube and up into or over the windsurfer mast. There was a few good postings about this a while ago.

As a completely personal note,I find the class 5s very fast and rewarding when mastered and entertaining on long wide beaches ,but a bit on the boring side, whilst the mini 5.6 class ,LLM,etc are very exciting ,and demanding ,because in a good blow,one wrong lapse of concentration,or mistake and up onto two wheels they go and over if you don,t react quickly enough ,Also very versatile ,both in transport and varieties of areas to be used . good luck

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sn said..

markkiwi said I have seen somewhere that if the mast step is welded at 90 degrees instead of tilted back, an unmodified windsurfer sail can be used....but I wonder how that works for head clearance.

Do the 90 degree bit!!
Until Chook did experiment 9636873 [lefroy mini with adjustable mast rake] we all used the "mast step tilted back", which required the sails to be recut to perform best.

With the rearward raked mast, modified sails gave much better high speed performance [on hard - low drag surfaces like bitumen carparks, salt lakes, claypans, compacted beaches] but had difficulty getting started on softer surfaces - much like driving a car stuck in top gear.

Standard sails tended to suit higher drag surfaces like grassed sports grounds [and some beaches] due to the effect of having a lower top speed but more low down grunt - often described as like having your car stuck in 2nd gear.

Chooks never ending experimentation found that the 90 degree mast worked much better than we had all anticipated - and it makes using a standard sail much easier, and head clearance is improved.

As for scrounging - I used to collect masts and sails for Chook [Esperance] and Paul [AKA "Landyacht"] in Boulder, by visiting a nearby council recycling depot - supply was plentiful and cheap - usually no more than $10 to $15 for a good sail and mast, sometimes cleaning them out gave me even better prices.
Unfortunately though, the council privatised the depot, with the result of prices going through the roof [$80 for a broken mast!!!] so I gave up on them.
When supplies ran low at the depot, or Chook and Paul needed lots of in a hurry, I would go to the SEABREEZE Windsurfers page, and ask if any of the windsurfing crew around Perth had old or unwanted sails and masts - even damaged masts can be used to make booms, or to extend a short mast.
Many windsurfers are afflicted with "shiney kit syndrome" and have a compulsive need to buy the latest gear every season - meaning their long suffering family are tripping over piles of supposedly "obsolete" rigging.
My best score was about a dozen sails and masts that were hanging up in a carport ceiling, all free - some still had price tags on them!!

Torn sails can be taped, or sewn by hand, even delaminated sails can be used until they fall apart - then the good bits are kept for patching.

Stick closely to the plans, only upgrades being the 90 degree mast, the reinforcing strap under the mast step, and plating over the rear of the chassis spine tube to prevent it tearing apart over time - and keeping salt out of the chassis spine tube.
Before you plate the rear of the tube, pour in a cup full of linseeed oil so it will be able to coat the inside surface of the tube.

have fun!!

Thanks SN, some good info there and a really good tip on putting oil in the tube before sealing it up!
Cheers!

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kennatt said..
the above is a class 5, could be a kirawee bundeena, very fast and competitive,You are lucky to find one for reasonable money they don't come up for sale in the UK very often, they do (normally) strip down so if you have a large enough estate type vehicle can be transported inside, or on roof rack. It looks in decent condition,the sail will be a standard 5.5
They are easy to sail in a straight line,and since they weigh around 50k are very stable even in strong winds. BUT they are designed to be fast and therefor there is very little weight on the front wheel .The skill comes in when turning, downwind is not too bad but into the wind the front wheel doesn't hold the road so to speak and can skid straight on. You need to develop the technique of sitting up,ducking under the boom and throwing your weight forwards to get the wheel to grab the surface. Some place sand or lead weight on the front to help in this.
I have a similar UK fed 5 and I have fitted drag brakes on both sides and can skid the back end round,with hand brake turns(Obv, on sand)
Not much to go wrong with them,just the normal metal fatigue on chassis,easy welding repair,and same with sail. Only thing to watch for is damage on the wheel rims.The larger wheels are expensive new and again never seen any used ones for sale UK .If too much damage the pod, mast ,sail and other bits would be a good way to build up another Yacht,the hardest thing to make is the seat,youve now got one

as to sails/mast, yes the centre of effort is held by the tight sail and mast towards the front of the sail,remember that these sails are designed for windsurfing so need to have a fixed power point so that the sailor can hold it down. That point is placed as near as possible at shoulder height in the centre of the windsurfers chest spread equally between his arms as he holds the wishbone boom. If not rigged properly that effort flows back as the wind increases,the C of E follows and the rig becomes back handed and unmanageable (If you watch a windsurfer rigging ,before he goes out you will see most stick the rig into the sand and hold the sail up in the wind to check the C of E is set where he wants it to stay).For windsurfing they all need a lower extension to alter the mast length and attach the rubber Universal joint,to fit to the board. Not required for Land yacht,the length is achieved with tip extensions ,But you need a longer mast because you lose a good bit by fitting it into the mast tube base on Yacht so that sail is actually further up the mast(on windsurfer the bottom of the sail is y about 4 inch from the deck of the board)However too long tip extensions change the bend and stiffness of the mast so its a suck it and see system. One thing to remember is that you need to make sure the mast base tube is wide enough for the Standard diameter mast to fit down into it.One other way is to make up a stepped diameter extension,that will fit down into the mast base tube and up into or over the windsurfer mast. There was a few good postings about this a while ago.

As a completely personal note,I find the class 5s very fast and rewarding when mastered and entertaining on long wide beaches ,but a bit on the boring side, whilst the mini 5.6 class ,LLM,etc are very exciting ,and demanding ,because in a good blow,one wrong lapse of concentration,or mistake and up onto two wheels they go and over if you don,t react quickly enough ,Also very versatile ,both in transport and varieties of areas to be used . good luck

Cheers Kennatt! I'll have to track down those posts about the stepped diameter extension. I also need to review some posts on what's required to strengthen the bottom of the fibre mast too.
I have my eye on a 2 piece mast that is 430cm long, the other one I've purchased is 460. I guess the 430 is still of some use if I can get it cheap enough.
I see a few complete windsurfer systems up for sale and they often come with one piece masts, which is kind of an issue for me because of transporting them.
or do you folks think one piece masts have a strength or other advantages so I'd be silly not to consider them?

The 430 would fit a 4m sail,but could also be used for cutting up and fitting up inside the base of the 460 as a strengthener.Anything with a joint is obviously weaker so a one piece is stronger ,way back thats all you could get for windsurfing.Most breakages I saw in my time in the windsurfing world was about 95% of the time, well below the joint just above the boom,so don't think any need for worry in the L Yachting use, also one piece would be useful for the reinforcing, and top bit for boom. Then keep 4.30 as another small sail mast.
All the breakages I've had with land yacht use have been just above the top of the mast base tube,thats where all the stress is,hence the need to reinforce the bottom 20inch or so of the mast. Still not a disaster,just need to lengthen the top by the same amount and back in use. Think I have one mast thats been reused like this twice.
In UK you can buy the stepped extension via Dave green of Yorker landyachting .co but price to NZ would be prohibitive ,But if you e Mailed him I'm sure he would give you the dimensions, he's a very friendly guy,and you could get something turned down on a lathe or two tubes welded together. On your new build just make sure that the mast tube is wide enough to fit the mast, On the C 5 you may find it already is They tended to build them with larger tubes all round.Good Luck

Finally picked up the mast I bought a couple of weeks ago. 2 piece Glass/Carbon 30%
OD of base is about 50mm, wall thickness looks like maybe 1 - 1.5mm. Top section of the mast tapers from 47 to 30mm so quite narrow. (This is my first real look at any mast so I'm guessing this is typical)
I have no idea if this was a good score or not, but cost $18 so I figured why not and it gives me a starting point.
I'll have to find out what 'constant curve 25' means too
Thoughts/comments anyone?

I need to research about mast stiffening, I'm assuming from what I can remember of old posts, that I need an old sacrificial mast to cut up and insert into the base to give that area more strength.
I seem to recall people stuffing lengths about 800, 400 and 300mm up their masts to strengthen the bottom while spreading the amount of stiffness added. Does that sound about right? I wonder if splitting an oversized insert down it's length so it can contract and fit tightly would work while still providing the extra strength required?
I'll now have to see how well it fits in that 7.4 sail I got cheap and how much I'll have to grow it by.
Any guidance/comments on options welcome!

I'm also eagerly awaiting this Thursday when I finally get my hands on the class 5 I bought. (I'm embarrassed to say how cheap I got it....would you believe I got change out of $30?)

well done on the class 5 a length of rope would cost more. Theres a couple for sale in U K at Present,quite old and for ?800. Its typical of the class fives ,not much racing done with them,now replaced by the promos and minis.Shame really they are still very competitive .Its probably due to transportability .
Constant curve .......................there was in the early days a theory that better handling was obtained with a flex tip mast,Ie a very stiff lower section,some sails were made to suit this,The idea being that the stiffer lower section held the power,and the top twisted off in the gusts to dump power without the need to sheet the whole sail out,so maintaining control. Didn't work to any measurable extent so most makers went back to the original Constant curve ie a pre-set progressively softer progression from the base to the tip . Still get the tip twist effect,but over the whole mast,Thats what you have ,and its what L yacht sail makers require in the mast to sail match .
With windsurf rigs on a L yacht the only thing that needs to match is the IMCS figure ,A windsurf sail will have that figure printed on it .Its not that critical give or take one or two either way because as earlier stated ,any tip extension moves the sail further up the mast so lowering the IMCS(Suck it an see comes into it)The higher the IMCS the bigger the sail,25 is about the 6.5 to 7.5.
As to splitting a tube Don't split a fibre glass mast insert,as you force it into the base mast the diameter contracts and damages the fibre on the opposite side of the split and makes it useless it looses all of its structure and strength
, Can be done On steel or aluminium but consider that the split is the weak spot, If you bend a tube that is split with the split on the inside then the split opens out and the tube collapses ,done the other way with the split on the outside then it holds to an extent but still weakened considerable. If in use can you be sure its always on the outside , then could be O K but much better to use complete tube. With a L yacht the force on the mast is mainly sideways so a split would need to be on the front or rear is use. You could always run a weld down the split and grind it back to fit but a lot more work involved.
.Just seen that you have a wave mast,they were generally made stronger at the lower section to cope with the numerous times that they were tumbled by waves, in a shore break,even world champs get slammed off in large breakers ,it will still need supporting with insert but will be stronger than one of the race/slalom windsurf masts that I used to break with regular monotony in waves
Good luck

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kennatt said..
well done on the class 5 a length of rope would cost more. Theres a couple for sale in U K at Present,quite old and for ?800. Its typical of the class fives ,not much racing done with them,now replaced by the promos and minis.Shame really they are still very competitive .Its probably due to transportability .
Constant curve .......................there was in the early days a theory that better handling was obtained with a flex tip mast,Ie a very stiff lower section,some sails were made to suit this,The idea being that the stiffer lower section held the power,and the top twisted off in the gusts to dump power without the need to sheet the whole sail out,so maintaining control. Didn't work to any measurable extent so most makers went back to the original Constant curve ie a pre-set progressively softer progression from the base to the tip . Still get the tip twist effect,but over the whole mast,Thats what you have ,and its what L yacht sail makers require in the mast to sail match .
With windsurf rigs on a L yacht the only thing that needs to match is the IMCS figure ,A windsurf sail will have that figure printed on it .Its not that critical give or take one or two either way because as earlier stated ,any tip extension moves the sail further up the mast so lowering the IMCS(Suck it an see comes into it)The higher the IMCS the bigger the sail,25 is about the 6.5 to 7.5.
As to splitting a tube Don't split a fibre glass mast insert,as you force it into the base mast the diameter contracts and damages the fibre on the opposite side of the split and makes it useless it looses all of its structure and strength
, Can be done On steel or aluminium but consider that the split is the weak spot, If you bend a tube that is split with the split on the inside then the split opens out and the tube collapses ,done the other way with the split on the outside then it holds to an extent but still weakened considerable. If in use can you be sure its always on the outside , then could be O K but much better to use complete tube. With a L yacht the force on the mast is mainly sideways so a split would need to be on the front or rear is use. You could always run a weld down the split and grind it back to fit but a lot more work involved.
.Just seen that you have a wave mast,they were generally made stronger at the lower section to cope with the numerous times that they were tumbled by waves, in a shore break,even world champs get slammed off in large breakers ,it will still need supporting with insert but will be stronger than one of the race/slalom windsurf masts that I used to break with regular monotony in waves
Good luck

Cheers Kennatt! Thanks for the advice and explanation. Looks like I might have lucked onto a mast that might work on the big sail I got. I'll have to examine the sail and see what info I can get from it.
I guess I'd better take a closer look at the auctions to see if mast and sail info matches. am I on the right track re using old mast pieces of varying lengths for stiffening? I guess the the truck is finding bits to match the internal taper.

Spare mast sections cut to fit are the ideal way because they are tapered and fit quite well into the taper of the mast not that critical because you can use tape round the insert to make it fit or use expanding polyurethane glue to take up any gap(Obviously permanent fix then if ever need to get it out) If you make the mast step wider than the base of the mast that you are going to use, then you can also use fibre glass matting and resin and do a wrap round the outer section of the mast that fits inside the step ,taken from bottom of mast to about 8" above the top of the step with this and the internal insert makes a good strong area of reinforcement .

Mast stiffening can be easily done with timber,

Find a length of timber with straight grain and no knots,
plane it to a snug fit into the base of the mast, [olde schoole spoke shave, manual hand plane or powered plane], but with a bit of play up inside the mast so it allows stress to be spread when the mast flexes to minimise the chance of the mast snapping where the timber finishes.

Measure the internal diameter of the mast at the base, and around 1m inside - I did this by using a long length of dowelling with a shortish nail tapped in near to the end of the dowelling - push the dowelling up into the mast until it the nail stops it going any further and you know the I.D. at that point.

You can also use this same mast stiffener as a base extension - just plane it so you have xxx mm of excess timber at the base.

Select to expand quote

sn said..
Mast stiffening can be easily done with timber,

Find a length of timber with straight grain and no knots,
plane it to a snug fit into the base of the mast, [olde schoole spoke shave, manual hand plane or powered plane], but with a bit of play up inside the mast so it allows stress to be spread when the mast flexes to minimise the chance of the mast snapping where the timber finishes.

Measure the internal diameter of the mast at the base, and around 1m inside - I did this by using a long length of dowelling with a shortish nail tapped in near to the end of the dowelling - push the dowelling up into the mast until it the nail stops it going any further and you know the I.D. at that point.

You can also use this same mast stiffener as a base extension - just plane it so you have xxx mm of excess timber at the base.

Clever idea that dowel trick!

I was looking at the mast support section of the Class 5 I bought (which I finally got home last night) and wondered if the adjustable mast support on that couldn't be used on the mini im about to build... it obviously works on this yacht.



Any opinions?

Most of the Fed5 had an adjustable mast system like that,mine has the same ,slightly different but same idea. So yes you could build one up
on your mini . One of the benefits of that system is that it adds a bit weight to the front(remember previous re steering problems) of a class five.
Once you have the mini built ,you will have the choice of two yachts. If not bothered about sticking to class rules.The fed five will easily take a windsurfing sail up to 7.5 and down to 3.5(mine does and works well the sweet spot being 6m) The adjustment on the 5 makes that possible because ws.rigs have a deep curve and the centre of effort is well back so you need to get that lined up with the centre of resistance by inclining the mast forwards
.
Depending on the size of the mini ,you may find that all you need to do is work out which sail you intend to use on it and just fix your base to suit that ,give or take a sail size + /-.So removes the complication of an adjustable mast.
Than, happy days, depending on where and how windy it is take one or the other yacht .

Thats what I do ,Upsets the rest of my sailing buddies when I pull the 5 out of the van,fit a 6.5 .They then know that they have no chance to stay with me in their minis ,mind different story if I make a mistake and the wind direction means loads of tacks and tight turns when they have now a massive advantage.
Been into the surf a few times with the 5 on tight turns when it skips straight on,with me shouting Turn you B...........d turn and them whipping past sticking two fingers up at me
Is the rest of the five in good condition,if so good steal there.
Good luck

Select to expand quote

kennatt said..
Most of the Fed5 had an adjustable mast system like that,mine has the same ,slightly different but same idea. So yes you could build one up
on your mini . One of the benefits of that system is that it adds a bit weight to the front(remember previous re steering problems) of a class five.
Once you have the mini built ,you will have the choice of two yachts. If not bothered about sticking to class rules.The fed five will easily take a windsurfing sail up to 7.5 and down to 3.5(mine does and works well the sweet spot being 6m) The adjustment on the 5 makes that possible because ws.rigs have a deep curve and the centre of effort is well back so you need to get that lined up with the centre of resistance by inclining the mast forwards
.
Depending on the size of the mini ,you may find that all you need to do is work out which sail you intend to use on it and just fix your base to suit that ,give or take a sail size + /-.So removes the complication of an adjustable mast.
Than, happy days, depending on where and how windy it is take one or the other yacht .

Thats what I do ,Upsets the rest of my sailing buddies when I pull the 5 out of the van,fit a 6.5 .They then know that they have no chance to stay with me in their minis ,mind different story if I make a mistake and the wind direction means loads of tacks and tight turns when they have now a massive advantage.
Been into the surf a few times with the 5 on tight turns when it skips straight on,with me shouting Turn you B...........d turn and them whipping past sticking two fingers up at me
Is the rest of the five in good condition,if so good steal there.
Good luck

It seems to be in good condition, I've striped most of the paint off to check the welds....it's build like a brick s**t house! Needs a few bolts replacing, and one of the pulleys is a bit shagged so I'll replace that. The others might need a bit of a lube. The last pulley is a ratchet style which I'm guessing can't be cheap so its a good score. I put my camera in the valve hole of the rear wheels and found there are no spokes.
Will continue to clean it up and give it a paint job, put a tap thru all the bolt threads to clean them up and replace any not stainless bolts with new stainless ones. Doesn't look like there is any way to adjust alignment. Axles are just heavy aluminium poles bolted in place.
Thanks for the info and the links, I'll have to do more reading. Am looking forward to taking it out for a spin but am now a bit wary on how it'll steer!

The comment on running into the surf on a class5 brings back memories !
Did that quite a few times on mine when I had it
You learn a few techniques to combat that over time. Weight forward and sheeted in hard when passing through the eye of the wind helps.
A good quick release seatbelt is a must here
That adjustable maststep on a mini would work fine I just use an oval mast step and wedge the mast forward or back to suit
very simple as the mast is always held toward the back by the mainsheet My class 5 was the same

Scroll down here and have a study of the chart:

unifiber.net/masts-selector