This is acopy of email sent to LOC organiser, the course is even more downwind than before. Just crazy stuff, it is not fun at all!
Dear organiser
Having entered your event as both wind kitesurfer on multiple occasions over past 20yrs, I wanted to write to you regarding proposed kite dw course. I had trial run of course over weekend. Your marks are way to downwind, it was stiff 20knot SW and to say it was a struggle is an understatement. The legs need to be less downwind. Perhaps a couple of inside marks closer to shore, would solve issue. Anyhow I won't be entering this year, unless course is changed. I am not into torturing myself.
Yours Sincerely Dennis Berman
Sent on the go with Vodafone
It's a shame kites can't race the same course as the windsurfers ... even better if we could race against each other on the same day
Have you kited the course Dusta?
Probably fine for course racing, however a lot of people will be on twintips and surfboards.
Some of legs are close to parrallel to the coast. Very large kites and boards will be required. So in 20knots on a 6ft2 north pro series with 9m kite it was a struggle. Probably needed 11m and Raceboard. The course has been changed so that 2nd mark is no longer closeish to shore. Having done event twice, can tell you it was tough enough last year without the change!
Select to expand quotebermand said..
Have you kited the course Dusta?
Probably fine for course racing, however a lot of people will be on twintips and surfboards.
Some of legs are close to parrallel to the coast. Very large kites and boards will be required. So in 20knots on a 6ft2 north pro series with 9m kite it was a struggle. Probably needed 11m and Raceboard. The course has been changed so that 2nd mark is no longer closeish to shore. Having done event twice, can tell you it was tough enough last year without the change!
yes i have , and i will be on a slalom board .
Think it is clear this is a course racing downwind course. If you accept that, that is great. Competitors on surfboards and twin tips with small kites will struggle. I personally would prefer a course that would make it fun for all competitors not just those fully kitted out on raceboards, foils etc.
Select to expand quotebermand said..
Think it is clear this is a course racing downwind course. If you accept that, that is great. Competitors on surfboards and twin tips with small kites will struggle. I personally would prefer a course that would make it fun for all competitors not just those fully kitted out on raceboards, foils etc.
well last time i checked this was a race not a social downwinder . plenty of sector style boards cheap that are perfect for this type of race
Yes I agree Bermand, bad course and realy sad that the organisers have learnt nothing from the last two years, I have let them know, I dont even think its any good for course racing boards.
so go a little less deep on the second run and broad reach then beam reach to the second mark . You don't have to go downwind , as going directly downwind may not be the fastest route anyway .
once you hit the first mark just broad reach then gybe and beam reach into the second mark .
Select to expand quotedusta said..bermand said..
Think it is clear this is a course racing downwind course. If you accept that, that is great. Competitors on surfboards and twin tips with small kites will struggle. I personally would prefer a course that would make it fun for all competitors not just those fully kitted out on raceboards, foils etc.
well last time i checked this was a race not a social downwinder . plenty of sector style boards cheap that are perfect for this type of race
I'm with Dusta. It's a race. That's part of the challenge. Rock up for the windsurfing downwinders and all the guys on the front row have dedicated equipment to get them down the course fast. Towards the back it's freeride kit. Some of these guys make it, some don't.
A few years (for the windsurfing course), the marks have been very down wind as well. This is where the racing part comes in. Do you gybe early and try and improve your angle to the mark or make a last minute down wind run to make it. It's tactical by nature. If the mark shown is direct down wind, then you have to choose how to handle it. The person who makes the least mistakes wins. It's the same course for all who enter. How you attack it is up to you.
Its a Downwind Marathon, not a course race. Course racing is laps of a course, and we not doing that.
There is no debate, the course could be improved if it was possible, but its not possible at this stage so it is what is it. The LOC team are aware of this and would change it if they could, but they cant. they doing the best they can with what's available.
They put the event on for kiters to have fun, nobody is paying off their home loan from their winnings. Nobody is forcing them to put on this event for us.
If it becomes too much of a headache it would be easier for them to just drop the kites.
When crew do a normal down-winder who puts up markers for you so that you can 'comfortable get down the coast on your surfboard or TT?"
Do a few tacks, you don't have to go straight from mark to mark... even the lads with course racing gear (not that this is course racing event) will need to include a few tacks between marks to get straight down wind, so no equipment is favoured in a straight downwind race. If its light, yes a bigger board and kite so the course boards will be better, in big winds surfboards will be better.
If you not able to enjoy the event or do downwind, don't enter. They not begging anybody to enter.
If you able to offer a better event or a better course please post the event details and im sure there will be a crew ready to race.
If you need a hand for your new event, we'll even offer a hand.
Perhaps with enough support they would be open to a few more division (Open, TT, Surfboard)
Then again this is a race, you wouldnt run a marathon in a your tennis or bowling shoes. Raceboards are now cheap, cheaper than new surfboards. if you want one, let me know and i'll see if i can hook you up. youll get more kite days in the year too. If you dead keen on racing, come try it, we have some kit i could let you have a go on. Plenty events on to that would be to your liking.
Some crew like to race, others like waves and freestyle. There is a freestyle and wave event specifically for surfboards and TT.
Great debate, jus? wanted to get it out there, hopefully all competitors will now understand what they are in for. Good luck to all.
IMO, the biggest hurdle will be the visibility (or not) of the marker buoys.....
It helps knowing where you're going - how you get there is the fun part 
LOC can't get enough boats to VOLUNTEER as markers for the kite race, so they are doing the best they can with what they have. The inside marker at Fence Reef was originally suggested so competitors were kind of 'encouraged' to not wander all over the ocean and pull them back in towards the beach a little. At one stage two years ago it was going to be a two marker race but the police vessel was roped in as a marker, which it probably shouldn't do as its primary role is search and rescue (as opposed to marker, sweep and recovery).
Yes it would be better to run the same course and on the same day and maybe even with the poleys but it isn't going to happen this year.
I for for one am spewing they only recently changed the weekend and day of the kite race, I miss another one. 
Select to expand quoteChris6791 said..
Yes it would be better to run the same course and on the same day and maybe even with the poleys but it isn't going to happen this year.
And why is that? Does anyone know what the reasons are that the kites have been put on a different course again this year?? it would solve all the problems, make less work for the volunteers only having to run one race, everyone gets a better course its all win win. So why different courses? it just doesn't make any sense.
They are running two separate races, one for the poleys and another for the kites. By the time they set up, race, and account for EVERY poley at the end of the race there isn't enough time left in the day to reset and run the kite race safely.
They are running two separate races as it is easier to manage volunteers, traffic, spectators, entrants, the start, race and finish and hold a reasonable level of safety over the whole thing. Yes there are multi-discipline races elsewhere but this isn't one of them, yet.
As for the different course, see my previous posts. The cray boat markers are volunteers, no-one can force them all to volunteer for a second day.
Same reason the windsurfers dont get an invite to Lighthouse to leighton. Its a class specific event for them on their race day.
That said we could rally support to ask to invite them to our allocated day, but the TT & surfboard crew would be even more disadvantaged as the windsurfers are pretty quick if not quicker than the racing crew kiters over this course.
The race would be better if they swapped the start and finish......
No offence, but i will offend.
Racers do come accross as a bit "soft"- The red thumbs given, and support for a downwind race kinda confims this.
Select to expand quoteChris6791 said..
They are running two separate races, one for the poleys and another for the kites. By the time they set up, race, and account for EVERY poley at the end of the race there isn't enough time left in the day to reset and run the kite race safely.
They are running two separate races as it is easier to manage volunteers, traffic, spectators, entrants, the start, race and finish and hold a reasonable level of safety over the whole thing. Yes there are multi-discipline races elsewhere but this isn't one of them, yet.
As for the different course, see my previous posts. The cray boat markers are volunteers, no-one can force them all to volunteer for a second day.
Ok if you say so but it kinda confuses me and doesnt make much sense as to how it can be less work to run 2 races instead of just one race. But yeah what ever. Enjoy the day guys.
For me it's a good race at it requires a bit of kite/sailing skill if you don't like the course then don't compete
Simple, don't bitch & moan about it.
It's a great event, ENJOY 
Select to expand quoteWeta said..
For me it's a good race at it requires a bit of kite/sailing skill and no cray pots.
Select to expand quoteUnderoath said..
The race would be better if they swapped the start and finish......
No offence, but i will offend.
Racers do come accross as a bit "soft"- The red thumbs given, and support for a downwind race kinda confims this.
i'd happily have an upwind race , bring it on . if anyone is "soft" as you put it , it isn't the "racers" .
BTW when is pt2 of your chilli home vids bucko
Select to expand quoteDamo said..
Chris6791 said..
They are running two separate races, one for the poleys and another for the kites. By the time they set up, race, and account for EVERY poley at the end of the race there isn't enough time left in the day to reset and run the kite race safely.
They are running two separate races as it is easier to manage volunteers, traffic, spectators, entrants, the start, race and finish and hold a reasonable level of safety over the whole thing. Yes there are multi-discipline races elsewhere but this isn't one of them, yet.
As for the different course, see my previous posts. The cray boat markers are volunteers, no-one can force them all to volunteer for a second day.
Ok if you say so but it kinda confuses me and doesnt make much sense as to how it can be less work to run 2 races instead of just one race. But yeah what ever. Enjoy the day guys.
It's easier to manage the safety aspects if they split it.
I've sat in on a few of the committee meetings and was involved in the emergency management side of it for 4 years (but no longer), I know a lot of the volunteers and a few of the current committee in some capacity or another. The bottom line when I was involved was competitor and volunteer safety, and part of that means risk management and keeping the insurance company happy. Once the state govt got involved through Eventscorp/Tourism WA a few years ago the administrative requirements of that risk management went through the roof.
The kitesurfer course is CRAP. It's not a race! Already asked for refund. Either same course as windsurfers or race ALL together or just 'can' the kite race!
Kiters poor relative of windsurfers-plain & simple.
IMO this course is a tactical course and the only part of it that seems to be in contention is the 2nd leg, the downwind leg.Yes it is a hard leg to do with the wind right up your behind but not impossible and each competitor will need to figure out which is the best/fastest way to do it.
Racing tests our ability and should be a challenge to our equipment and ourselves and each race should be different and the LOC is different.
We do need to support those that have put this race on for us and not pull it apart; it is not an easy race and if it were what would be the point?
If it is such a great tactical course, why not the same course for poleys?
The poleys would never accept.
ps TV & choppers all gone home after poleys race.
The LOC needs to lift their game. For example does anybody know who won the last 2 years race?!! ( was there even a winner?)
I can name the winners of the past 5 years L2L.
Replace LOC kite committee with Tim Turner & crew pls
Select to expand quoteAirman1 said..
The LOC needs to lift their game. For example does anybody know who won the last 2 years race?!! ( was there even a winner?)
I can name the winners of the past 5 years L2L.
Replace LOC kite committee with Tim Turner & crew pls
The LOC crew are doing a great job most are volunteers so airman1 i suggest you are the first to put up you hand next year to help out.
