Rider: Weight,Level intermediate
Style: Surf

My Comments:

Guys,

Looking to upgrade from 2013 neos. Kite to be high power to size m2, quick pivot, good drift, and good up-wind.
Surfboard 100% and 92kg.

Appreciate comments/suggestions please.

buy the new Neo . My second choice is the REO but it doesn't have the extra grunt

I'd just like to say that no wave kite has good upwind......... The wave kite salesmen will bounce on here saying "yes they do, yes they do...."

But compare them to a kite that actually goes upwind like a rocket they are all shiiit!.....

Also the better upwind it has the worse drift it will have. Sorry fella's but its just physics. Short fat kites drift well (wave kites) and long thing kites (race kites) go upwind well. So you have to choose a trade off between upwind ability and drift. A kite tha goes upwind better will drift worse.....

Find the kite that has the best compromise between drift and upwind performance.

Also power per m2 is also bogus. Unless you do a complete change of design (EG Go from wave kite to race kite) the power per m2 s pretty much the same....... again its physics. The number on the side of the kite is not accuarate. A kite that has good bottom end for its size is simply a bigger kite!...... I remember putting my 8m cat on top of a 6m bws. Almost the exact same size.... But the cat had a good top end for a 8m and the bws was a grunty 6m..... go figure. They were probably both closer to 7m size.....

So find the kite that fits into the wind range you want to ride in regardless of whats printed on the side of it!!!.

Rant over.

Thanks for the feed-back guys.

Tried the new neos but felt heavy and slow compared to the 2013 model.

Point taken on the up-wind ability. Looking for something that can get back up on a point break easier. May be a board thing! Do quads track upwind better than thrusters??

Regarding the power/m2, tried the 9m neo vs 9m dice and there was a difference in power. Different shape yes, and maybe there is more material in the neo?

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Plummet said..
I'd just like to say that no wave kite has good upwind......... The wave kite salesmen will bounce on here saying "yes they do, yes they do...."

But compare them to a kite that actually goes upwind like a rocket they are all shiiit!.....

Also the better upwind it has the worse drift it will have. Sorry fella's but its just physics. Short fat kites drift well (wave kites) and long thing kites (race kites) go upwind well. So you have to choose a trade off between upwind ability and drift. A kite tha goes upwind better will drift worse.....

Find the kite that has the best compromise between drift and upwind performance.

Also power per m2 is also bogus. Unless you do a complete change of design (EG Go from wave kite to race kite) the power per m2 s pretty much the same....... again its physics. The number on the side of the kite is not accuarate. A kite that has good bottom end for its size is simply a bigger kite!...... I remember putting my 8m cat on top of a 6m bws. Almost the exact same size.... But the cat had a good top end for a 8m and the bws was a grunty 6m..... go figure. They were probably both closer to 7m size.....

So find the kite that fits into the wind range you want to ride in regardless of whats printed on the side of it!!!.

Rant over.

Most wave kites have fat(ish) leading edges and lower aspect ratios so they definitely don't go upwind like an Edge or similar for sure. That said I still think the Reo goes upwind reasonably well for a wave kite - I think it's probably better to compare kites in the same category rather than saying "a Reo has ** low end compared to x race kite". It goes upwind well for a wave kite. I also ride the LF Wow as my wave kite (yes, I'm sponsored by LF but I am also honest about what I like and don't like) and that kite has a crazy small leading edge and higher aspect ratio. It doesn't drift quite as well as a Reo or the like but it goes upwind better and turns faster due to the tiny LE. It also has really good power per square meter so I ride it small and whip it around and it works great. All the drift you need and tons of speed. The other advantage is it's actually a very good freeride/boosting kite so if you mix it up with flat water sessions it crosses over well. You need to pump the hell out of it (it says that on the kite so make sure you do it) to get the best performance but it really does work. I think in an onshore to side on it would have an advantage over some other designs but if it's offshore to side to side off something like a Reo or Wave SST would have the advantage as they have crazy slack line drift and steering response.

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Plummet said...
I'd just like to say that no wave kite has good upwind......... The wave kite salesmen will bounce on here saying "yes they do, yes they do...."

But compare them to a kite that actually goes upwind like a rocket they are all shiiit!.....

Also the better upwind it has the worse drift it will have. Sorry fella's but its just physics. Short fat kites drift well (wave kites) and long thing kites (race kites) go upwind well. So you have to choose a trade off between upwind ability and drift. A kite tha goes upwind better will drift worse.....

Find the kite that has the best compromise between drift and upwind performance.

Also power per m2 is also bogus. Unless you do a complete change of design (EG Go from wave kite to race kite) the power per m2 s pretty much the same....... again its physics. The number on the side of the kite is not accuarate. A kite that has good bottom end for its size is simply a bigger kite!...... I remember putting my 8m cat on top of a 6m bws. Almost the exact same size.... But the cat had a good top end for a 8m and the bws was a grunty 6m..... go figure. They were probably both closer to 7m size.....

So find the kite that fits into the wind range you want to ride in regardless of whats printed on the side of it!!!.

Rant over.

The neo goes upwind as good as my edges, not with the same power though, a reo , no way
The neo has surprising power for a said wave kite,
The neo as a wave kite seem to be very different in shape from your norm / wave kites
They seem to be the kite of choice around the Midwest for wave riders, where reos are more popular at specific wave destinations, speak to your local wave riders as there is sometimes a reason regarding conditions as to why they've chose a kite






Looking at profile and outline this is why the neo is better upwind and powerfull ( when reqd) compared to a reo

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The neo goes upwind as good as my edges, not with the same power though, a reo , no way

it's probably amazing for freestyle and jumps as well ?

I hope people can read through the BS on this site because i certainly struggle with it

And funny enough its always the same crew who have a lot to say.

Hey Sharpy,
RRD Vision mark 4, may fit the bill.
Better upwind than the RRD Religion
Drifts well,even boosts well.
May be another option.

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cauncy said..

The neo goes upwind as good as my edges, not with the same power though, a reo , no way
The neo has surprising power for a said wave kite,
The neo as a wave kite seem to be very different in shape from your norm / wave kites
They seem to be the kite of choice around the Midwest for wave riders, where reos are more popular at specific wave destinations, speak to your local wave riders as there is sometimes a reason regarding conditions as to why they've chose a kite

I still don't believe it until i see it Cauncy. I recon if you did a gps test all other aspect being equal the edge would easily beat the neo.

Also if the neo does it does rocket upwind better than a reo the newsflash will be that its higher aspect and worse at drifting.... . . .. . .

But you are right test out at your local and choose what you like best. Conditions play a big role. As an example my edge makes a great wave kite when its cross off!. Cross on its horrible as a wave kite. Reo pisses me off when riding cross off because its upwind isn't good enough But i'm grinning the like a school boy whose just discovered pornhub when its cross on.

Second Plummet ^^ No danger a Neo goes upwind as well as an Edge. No wave kite does. In fact most LEIs don't as there aren't many left that are that high aspect. Kind of makes me question your kite knowledge TBH.

Forget about aspect and go back to basics on say a Manly Junior. If you wan't more power you let off the down haul and out haul.
The same size sail is then deeper and has more power. When the wind comes in it is more efficient to flatten the sail but there is less of a sweet spot so if it is gusty or choppy it might actually be slower. Probably a bit generalised but carrying over to kites - some brands are deeper so have more grunt for their size and some have smaller sweet spots.

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Drury said...
Second Plummet ^^ No danger a Neo goes upwind as well as an Edge. No wave kite does. In fact most LEIs don't as there aren't many left that are that high aspect. Kind of makes me question your kite knowledge TBH.

Tacking back from the point I didn't see any difference in amount of tacks or difference in distance my angles toward my launch area were and seemed the same , but not with the same speed or power, nothing hard about that
Also if you don't make a certain point inside the reef you won't make it back due to upwind direction

Thanks Leigh, will look for a demo.

I think choice of surfboard has a far greater influence on upwind ability than the brand of kite.

have both then right surfboard and kite and you will bena very happy kite surfer. i have reo 2012 and neo 2015 both are very good at drifting . reo is better at turning , the new reo are equal on power . the reo eats the gust better. try before you buy

2016 wave kites magazine review:

kitesurfingmag.com/wave-kites-v-2016-reviews/

that review above...what is a wave kite comparison review without a reo? Weird. Then again I might have missed it...was it in there?

As a magazine review, brands may be paying and sending kites for the tests. Maybe Ozone was not interested on being there, or had been still not released before the test was done... I don't know. There are also other kites that were not included, not only the Reos.

As any other magazine review can be hidden commercial interests, as brands reviewed are usually paying for advertisements included on the same magazine.

Just found interesting that someone tried all that 2016 kites in same sizes and similar conditions and could compare them directly. Not everyone has had this opportunity.

Anyway, the best option is always to try before buy.

Reo 'Neo Both good kites I have no problems going up wind I also agree with above The board and your Technique And Kite Size I go to bigger size kite if conditions require it Note I normally kite with small volume brds

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WOK said...

The neo goes upwind as good as my edges, not with the same power though, a reo , no way

it's probably amazing for freestyle and jumps as well ?

I hope people can read through the BS on this site because i certainly struggle with it

And funny enough its always the same crew who have a lot to say.

I find some of these quotes contradicting
You were bragging about the enduros just a few weeks ago , do this do that amazing
I struggle also listening to retailers bs about this and that kite, bag brand x as they don't sell it
Funny enough it's the same few retailers that push it down your throats
Plummet said that no wave kite gets upwind well
Well that's crap, some not but some do,
The neo does, and hence that's why I posted the higher aspect look of the kite, the reo doesn't get upwind due to it's aspect
I've been getting on heaps of kites lately and have been loving and hating certain traits of kites
Just because you don't trade in certain brands doesn't mean that they're a bad kite,or carnt be used for certain disciplines
Standout rider for waves here uses core gts
Standout free rider/ freestyle rider uses nitros
Standout upwind rider is on neos
Best wave rider I've seen was on a c4
Chris Burke on the wainmann kites another standout rider I've seen all on non specific kites

Medium aspect I think giv you both worlds, wide squarish wing tips open C give best drift and does not luff when the lines go slack.

But boards are the way to go for more options on conditions, you cannot have enough boards.

cheers
Rich

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cauncy said..

I find some of these quotes contradicting
You were bragging about the enduros just a few weeks ago , do this do that amazing
I struggle also listening to retailers bs about this and that kite, bag brand x as they don't sell it
Funny enough it's the same few retailers that push it down your throats
Plummet said that no wave kite gets upwind well
Well that's crap, some not but some do,
The neo does, and hence that's why I posted the higher aspect look of the kite, the reo doesn't get upwind due to it's aspect
I've been getting on heaps of kites lately and have been loving and hating certain traits of kites
Just because you don't trade in certain brands doesn't mean that they're a bad kite,or carnt be used for certain disciplines
Standout rider for waves here uses core gts
Standout free rider/ freestyle rider uses nitros
Standout upwind rider is on neos
Best wave rider I've seen was on a c4
Chris Burke on the wainmann kites another standout rider I've seen all on non specific kites

Standout kook is on Hadlow kites, right? I think I remember seeing a couple of pics lately that support this theory....

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Review/carbon-free-ride-twin-tips/

Reo can get upwind fine, especially the 2015 2016 with thinner leading edge and struts. I agree with plummet....But how much upwind do you need. I can usually surf any break on a single tack, unless it's a really really long wave, or there are adverse conditions ( strong current, light onshore). It also has a lot to do with your technique, board, and probably most importantly body weight and how you can shift it. Im not trying to push you towards a reo. Other good wave kite options at way cheaper prices. It's just crap they can't go upwind.

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Plummet said...
I'd just like to say that no wave kite has good upwind......... The wave kite salesmen will bounce on here saying "yes they do, yes they do...."

But compare them to a kite that actually goes upwind like a rocket they are all shiiit!.....

Also the better upwind it has the worse drift it will have. Sorry fella's but its just physics. Short fat kites drift well (wave kites) and long thing kites (race kites) go upwind well. So you have to choose a trade off between upwind ability and drift. A kite tha goes upwind better will drift worse.....

Well said!

That being said, why does everyone stress like a newb on a tt, in regards to going upwind. People sacrifice surfboard and kite performance to choice worse shapes just to go upwind a little better.

Power to square m the Prodigy is the best wave kite going.
Has great pivot and drifts forever. Will loop tight or Big and wide if you want power.
Will absolutely smash the neo and reo for low end. The 9.5 is the same power as the neo 10 & the 12 has more than any other fast turning 12.

Really digging my Wainman Punch right now, plus there are "upwind" and "downwind" bridal settings so you can fine tune. Really stable kite, fast turning, and good drifter. Nice big floaty jumps too. The 10.5 will probably be my go to kite this summer.

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bjw said..

That being said, why does everyone stress like a newb on a tt, in regards to going upwind. People sacrifice surfboard and kite performance to choice worse shapes just to go upwind a little better.

If your ripping down the line every run then 90% of your riding is tacking back upwind back to the break. If you have a board/kite combo that has crappy upwind then it is literally a grovel to get back to the break. Or alternatively if you can rip back upwind to the break in not time at all you will catch more waves and have more fun.....

So... What are your conditions? how much drifting do you need? The more onshore it is the more drift you need. The more offshore it is the less drift you need.

I'll also state that the board is way more important than the kite for going upwind. So if want to improve your upwind. First look at the board. Flatter tail rocker wider tail will give better upwind.

So maybe a good upwind board combined with a good drifting kite might be what tickles your dander. Or maybe you prefer a more dynamic board in the waves with more rocker less width and combine that with a worse drifting better upwinding kite?

So don't just look at the kite. Look at the board/kite combo to something that suits your upwinding and wave riding needs.

I love my Reo,it doesn't want to kill me

My preference is to go downwind, much more fun not having to worry about holding your line. I realize that this is not always possible but much more fun when possible.
My spot, Cape Hatteras we set a car downwind and have fun. Just got back from 8 days in Cabarete and we set up a taxi to pick us up in Encuentro at a designated time. Every time it is an option, the best way to go. Sometimes current is so strong in Hatteras that holding your line is near impossible.
Board and kite definitely make a difference when trying to hold your line and it is important to be powered too.

My kite preference is the C2 Cloud. I have the 7/9/12. Love these kites more every time I ride them. They are fast, instant power when you want it, instant depower, drift better than anything out there (that I have tried). That said, nothing is perfect and there are always compromises it seems. They do not turn well sheeted out, need to pull the bar in to get them to turn (and they turn fast!). For the surf, you do not want them to hit the water, it'll mean a swim to the beach. The only way they go into the water is operator error but it can happen. This may be a big issue for some but for me all the other aspects outweigh this issue for me.

I had a 10m 2012 Reo for a season and liked that kite a lot, pretty fast and direct but took a lot of wind. Would like to try one of the newer ones again. The current batch and latest bar looks like a great package.

I demo'd the 2015 Neo alongside the 12m Cloud and thought the Neo was a heavy sluggish pig compared to the cloud which blew my mind. Now it was very light wind and everyone I know who has the Neo loves them so I'm sure it's also a great kite. I need to try a smaller Neo again when properly powered.

Maybe the Clouds are not for everyone but if you have an open mind, give it a try.

What about the BWS Aenema? I haven't tried it but heard good things. I had the BWS kites (prior to the pro) for a couple seasons and liked them a lot.

Tony

quick plug for new Zian Kima II surf kite... fly a reo 12 for light winds but wanted a 9 with grunt...
very impressed with its easy surf performance, and even more impressed with the price ($1500rrp complete)!
welcome to demo mine if ever on Gold Coast...

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kiter63 said..

My kite preference is the C2 Cloud. I have the 7/9/12. Love these kites more every time I ride them. They are fast, instant power when you want it, instant depower, drift better than anything out there (that I have tried). That said, nothing is perfect and there are always compromises it seems. They do not turn well sheeted out, need to pull the bar in to get them to turn (and they turn fast!). For the surf, you do not want them to hit the water, it'll mean a swim to the beach. The only way they go into the water is operator error but it can happen. This may be a big issue for some but for me all the other aspects outweigh this issue for me.

I have to agree. I have a 7/9/12/14.5/17 ..... Great in the surf and great with a foil (if you do freestyle). If you want to do big airs, find another kite.