just picked up a 2013 8m cat interest to know how people find them on a surfboard been using 2010 cats and bws noise kites which have been great but found 2013 cat so much diferent in a bad way for surf eg heel going to toeside also seems to be slower and more of a park ride kite have others found the same issues if so did they get used too it (only got cats cause like to boost on surfboard)

I ride a 2013 Catalyst with strapless surfboard. I shortened the back lines to shortest knot at bar and moved them closest to center on leading edge for faster turning. Now I love it in its wind range.

Check your lines. The 2013 is an awesome kite, great on surfboards, turns tight, depowers and drifts well and on flat water is boosts and unhooks well too.

just finnished session with shortened back lines and set to fast turn/max bar pressure surprised how much difference it made looks like kite will be a keeper

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poshi said..

just finnished session with shortened back lines and set to fast turn/max bar pressure surprised how much difference it made looks like kite will be a keeper

Nothing worse that a stretched line set, or out of whack lines! So many times its caused people to sell kites or unwitting riders to give kites terrible reviews.

Whats the best way to solve stretched lines kitepower?

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snowsurfmatt said..

Whats the best way to solve stretched lines kitepower?

Hook your lines up to something. I have a nail on a fence. Unwind them and pull some tension on the bar. All lines should be at tension with the bar pulled all the way in to the qr. If that back lines are slack. Then adjust them with the trim straps under the floats (for ozone kites) till they are at even tension with the front.

Some people like to run more back line tension than standard. Its a common mod suggested for ozone kites. In which case you adjust the tension the front lines are a bit slack a couple of inches. Then your standard factory setting is set with the trim strap pulled in a few inches. This gives you the option to pull in more "grunt" on days with lighter winds.

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snowsurfmatt said..

Whats the best way to solve stretched lines kitepower?

With respect, don't do it the way Plummet has suggested, you will end up with a depowered undertrimmed kite.

Connect all 4 lines to a single point, a piece of rope with a knot at the end around a good sized tree works well. I use a SS snaphook on the end of a rope around a tree outside the shop.
Make sure the trimmer of the bar is all the way out, at its maximum length. If there are knots in your lines, get them out (I've described this before many times, use search)

With the lines connected, pull the bar and lines, the front lines should be slightly longer than the rears - for all bars! If you adjust all 4 lines to be equal length when the chicken loop is up against the bar, then you will be riding a depowered and under trimmed kite, because no-one ever rides with the bar pulled all the way to the chicken loop.
We use the 4 finger rule/guide, there needs to be room to fit 4 fingers between the bottom of the bar and the chicken loop, wearing your harness when you make this adjustment can help you understand, although we never do.
When we adjust, or check for correct trim of a lineset, we hold the chicken loop in one hand and the bar in the other, pull back hard, and there should be 4 fingers of depower line showing below the bar, when the lines are evenly tensioned.

Hope thats easy to understand? Any kite/bar and lines more than 6 months old should be checked, all front lines(and rears less so) stretch, especially with larger/heavier riders, or those that ride a lot, do powered tricks a lot, including boosting in strong winds.
I'll also show anyone that asks how to do this for free.

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Kitepower Australia said..

snowsurfmatt said..

Whats the best way to solve stretched lines kitepower?

With respect, don't do it the way Plummet has suggested, you will end up with a depowered undertrimmed kite.

Connect all 4 lines to a single point, a piece of rope with a knot at the end around a good sized tree works well. I use a SS snaphook on the end of a rope around a tree outside the shop.
Make sure the trimmer of the bar is all the way out, at its maximum length. If there are knots in your lines, get them out (I've described this before many times, use search)

With the lines connected, pull the bar and lines, the front lines should be slightly longer than the rears - for all bars! If you adjust all 4 lines to be equal length when the chicken loop is up against the bar, then you will be riding a depowered and under trimmed kite, because no-one ever rides with the bar pulled all the way to the chicken loop.
We use the 4 finger rule/guide, there needs to be room to fit 4 fingers between the bottom of the bar and the chicken loop, wearing your harness when you make this adjustment can help you understand, although we never do.
When we adjust, or check for correct trim of a lineset, we hold the chicken loop in one hand and the bar in the other, pull back hard, and there should be 4 fingers of depower line showing below the bar, when the lines are evenly tensioned.

Hope thats easy to understand? Any kite/bar and lines more than 6 months old should be checked, all front lines(and rears less so) stretch, especially with larger/heavier riders, or those that ride a lot, do powered tricks a lot, including boosting in strong winds.
I'll also show anyone that asks how to do this for free.

Never heard that method Steve (four fingered thingy) but it actually makes sense. My bars need tuning so will give it a god.

Thing is Steve, we do pull in all the way when boosting...wouldn't this then 'flare, the kite in the air?

^^^ 4 fingers has not made any kite I've tuned over the years, backstall. Definitely want to avoid stalling the kite, when unhooked or when jumping. 4 fingers seems to to do the job for boosting and unhooking, but for unhooking its a fine line and some fine tuning is probably needed.
Boosting or unhooking is the only time kiters hold the bar in or have the chicken loop jammed at the bar.
Its clear we do not ride like this though and that was the point I thought I had made clear.

If a kite has been tuned as per Plummets explanation though, it will not boost as high or float as well, and it will also not steer are tight. For unhooking it will shoot forward in the wind and make it much harder for riders to complete tricks.

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Kitepower Australia said..

snowsurfmatt said..

Whats the best way to solve stretched lines kitepower?

With respect, don't do it the way Plummet has suggested, you will end up with a depowered undertrimmed kite.

Connect all 4 lines to a single point, a piece of rope with a knot at the end around a good sized tree works well. I use a SS snaphook on the end of a rope around a tree outside the shop.
Make sure the trimmer of the bar is all the way out, at its maximum length. If there are knots in your lines, get them out (I've described this before many times, use search)

With the lines connected, pull the bar and lines, the front lines should be slightly longer than the rears - for all bars! If you adjust all 4 lines to be equal length when the chicken loop is up against the bar, then you will be riding a depowered and under trimmed kite, because no-one ever rides with the bar pulled all the way to the chicken loop.
We use the 4 finger rule/guide, there needs to be room to fit 4 fingers between the bottom of the bar and the chicken loop, wearing your harness when you make this adjustment can help you understand, although we never do.
When we adjust, or check for correct trim of a lineset, we hold the chicken loop in one hand and the bar in the other, pull back hard, and there should be 4 fingers of depower line showing below the bar, when the lines are evenly tensioned.

Hope thats easy to understand? Any kite/bar and lines more than 6 months old should be checked, all front lines(and rears less so) stretch, especially with larger/heavier riders, or those that ride a lot, do powered tricks a lot, including boosting in strong winds.
I'll also show anyone that asks how to do this for free.

Didn't you just say the same thing as me expect differently?. In effect i am saying set it up with even line lengths. Then adapt it to suit. usual is to run as per your suggestion and extra few inches.

Now the question i have is this. If over sheeted is standard. Why then do ozone set their bars up with even line length out of the box? Do ozone not now how to set their own bars up properly?

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Kitepower Australia said..

^^^ 4 fingers has not made any kite I've tuned over the years, backstall. Definitely want to avoid stalling the kite, when unhooked or when jumping. 4 fingers seems to to do the job for boosting and unhooking, but for unhooking its a fine line and some fine tuning is probably needed.
Boosting or unhooking is the only time kiters hold the bar in or have the chicken loop jammed at the bar.
Its clear we do not ride like this though and that was the point I thought I had made clear.

If a kite has been tuned as per Plummets explanation though, it will not boost as high or float as well, and it will also not steer are tight. For unhooking it will shoot forward in the wind and make it much harder for riders to complete tricks.

Okay will give it a go. Might go the four fingers then use the bar end adjustments to adjust for unhooking maybe.

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poshi said..

just picked up a 2013 8m cat interest to know how people find them on a surfboard been using 2010 cats and bws noise kites which have been great but found 2013 cat so much diferent in a bad way for surf eg heel going to toeside also seems to be slower and more of a park ride kite have others found the same issues if so did they get used too it (only got cats cause like to boost on surfboard)

Why fix something that wasnt fingered??

Eg why change from BWS to a kite you never touched before??

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With respect, don't do it the way Plummet has suggested, you will end up with a depowered undertrimmed kite.

Plummet you probably did say something similar to what I posted, and thats why I said with respect, ok?

Ozone website says this, which is more like what you said in the first part of your post, I just found what you said a little confusing.

ozonekites.com/water

Everyone needs to check their lines, the photo on the Ozone page above shows an incorrectly tuned bar, which looks more like 6 fingers.
Unhooking will required something between 4 fingers and "zero", but this can be achieved with the trimmer and anyone riding wakestyle or unhooked surf probably already knows and does this.

The 3 knots under the floats gives every rider of any style the ability to tune their bar to give best possible performance.

Thanks mate,

gonna give it a crack anyway.!

cheers

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NoBS said..

poshi said..

just picked up a 2013 8m cat interest to know how people find them on a surfboard been using 2010 cats and bws noise kites which have been great but found 2013 cat so much diferent in a bad way for surf eg heel going to toeside also seems to be slower and more of a park ride kite have others found the same issues if so did they get used too it (only got cats cause like to boost on surfboard)

Why fix something that wasnt fingered??

Eg why change from BWS to a kite you never touched before??

easy answer not changing still use noise they both have there advantages

ok.

What I was trying to say. Obviously badly is to set the bar as per pictured 3 in that ozone link. Called correct zero by ozone. Then trim to suit with a couple of inches more back line tension if desired.

Well I've fingered my bars last night. My bars are set up 3 fingers. But moving to the next knot down takes it to 6 fingers and definitely over sheeting.

So I guess unknowingly im running with Steve's suggestion.

Yeh I had a good fingering session the other day as well and found the same. Ha ha found myself trying to stick three fingers on the depower rope when riding in the normal sheet position ..weird look..lol

I just fiddle judging by how she behaves when riding rather than relying on the finger technique

^ likewise. My lines are out coz I use one bar for three kites. I just trim accordingly and have the back lines on the long setting under the float.

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default said..

I just fiddle judging by how she behaves when riding rather than relying on the finger technique

Well I'm doing retrospective fingering!

Set her up so she flys well then check how deep I can get my fingers.

Turns out I can slide 3 fingers in there.

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Plummet said...

default said..

I just fiddle judging by how she behaves when riding rather than relying on the finger technique

Well I'm doing retrospective fingering!

Set her up so she flys well then check how deep I can get my fingers.

Turns out I can slide 3 fingers in there.

That many.. I prefer a setup which only takes 2 fingers

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default said..

Plummet said...

default said..

I just fiddle judging by how she behaves when riding rather than relying on the finger technique

Well I'm doing retrospective fingering!

Set her up so she flys well then check how deep I can get my fingers.

Turns out I can slide 3 fingers in there.

That many.. I prefer a setup which only takes 2 fingers

Even if you choose a 2 finger set up. You will always try and get 3 fingers in there. Its just the nature of men. Eventually whether you like it or not you will have to settle for 3 fingers.