sup guys

im 85kg
kite on dams mainly,lagoons every now and then (mostly gustyish winds)
wind 14-22knts avg about 18knts
beginner (am just able to go up and down)
kite on a twintip

im looking to get a new kite. As im just a student im looking at the 09 models

i can only afford one kite so i want a kite that can offer the widest wind range...
Most of the guys here use the 09 11m crossbow, apparently it has the widest wind range?
i really like the look of the 09 12m cult and have seen plenty good reviews on them but noone here flies them.

Has anyone tried both these kites?
what do you guys think?
any other kites you guys have in mind?

12 meter hydra. best wind range available for its size, no pullys.

with a 80 kg rider, wind range from 13 to 34 knots. we use these kites for speed kiting because of the size you can put up under extreem conditions.
check it out.

james

light wind, (around 10 knots, with 14m hydra. rider weight around 75 kg, board size 132x39)


strong wind. close to 50 knots, hydra 9m. sebastian has had his 9m hydra out in 60 knots. (crazy though).


http://www.genetrixkitesurf.com/gntrx/hydraprfrmnce.html

wow thats serious range!

Im from South Africa though and i dont think iv ever seen one here...

Select to expand quote

sustan said...

wow thats serious range!

Im from South Africa though and i dont think iv ever seen one here...

Hi Sustan,
The hydra windrange is massive , most of the speed crew in south africa use them, Basil Cambanis, Hennie Brendenkamp, Taro niehaus, catman he is french but living in South Africa.

Hydra, (James)

I always loved the 'tranquility' of that first vid since you first posted it way back (Chicane as a backing track helps also I guess..)

BUT.. To that second one. 'Luderitz' has gotta be one of the best produced I've seen for a very long time. Intro, location, atmosphere, the event... fade to madness!! Six tyres on the kite.. kinda windy... Takes you right there! Credit to those speed guys!
Whoever put that together, did an excellent job! Love the cut at 3:37 too...

Top post man, thanks!

Select to expand quote

hydra said...

12 meter hydra. best wind range available for its size, no pullys.

with a 80 kg rider, wind range from 13 to 34 knots. we use these kites for speed kiting because of the size you can put up under extreem conditions.
check it out.

james

12 m kite 13 to 34 knts > biggest BST !!!

Rebel 2010 10 m for your weight (sustan 85 kg) 14-30 knts fore sure ( do not even have to touch the trim line) NO BST have my word on it.
Good luck.

Select to expand quote

Sasha said...

hydra said...

12 meter hydra. best wind range available for its size, no pullys.

with a 80 kg rider, wind range from 13 to 34 knots. we use these kites for speed kiting because of the size you can put up under extreem conditions.
check it out.

james

12 m kite 13 to 34 knts > biggest BST !!!

Rebel 2010 10 m for your weight (sustan 85 kg) 14-30 knts fore sure ( do not even have to touch the trim line) NO BST have my word on it.
Good luck.

12 m kite 13 to 34 knots > biggest wind range.

there's enough people to back up the claim, but anyway, rebel's are good also.
since youve never used one then how can you call BST??

you have to understand that the kite was designed specifically for its de-power ability, where inland conditions can be at a steady 15 knots, and gust to 40 knots.

the kite is used mainly for speed kiting, where the speed locations in south africa and france have unpredictable gusts. and because of its flat shape, its also good for the light days.

im not saying that its ideal to fly 12m kites in over 30 knots, but a kite like this is ideal for piece of mind kiting.

if i was caught in a winter squall with my currant c-shape, i would get KO'd. whereas the hydra is quite controllable.

the 12m is a one kite quiver. thats all i used for over 12 months, and only missed out on a couple of sessions all year.

yes i sell this kite.

cheers james.

Hydra said: the 12m is a one kite quiver. thats all i used for over 12 months, and only missed out on a couple of sessions all year.

yes i sell this kite.

cheers james.


SHAMELESS PIMPING !!!

Select to expand quote

Sasha said...

Hydra said: the 12m is a one kite quiver. thats all i used for over 12 months, and only missed out on a couple of sessions all year.

yes i sell this kite.

cheers james.


SHAMELESS PIMPING !!!

I always love these claims. Clearly these people haven't been out when the wind is a consistent 34 knots. To say the wind range is 13-34 means that you're saying it can ride in 13 knots average at the bottom (10-15 knots with gusts) and 34 knots consistent (30-38 knots with gusts). If the wind is consistent 34, I'd have second thoughts about taking out my 9m, never mind taking out a 12m. I've seen what an 80kg rider looks like on a 12m in 30-38 and its not pleasant. I've been out on a 9m in 30-38 and thats also not pleasant. A mate of mine weighs 115kg's and I've seen him out on a 7m in 40 consistent (38-45) and he was getting lofted on his gybes.

Lets rethink our claims here people. The 13 I can believe on the bottom end but using gusts as your measurement for top end is just plain stupid or I can say my 13m has a 35 knot top end because I happened to survive a couple of big gusts on the way in one day.

If you say that

Kites that are designed for speed kiting are tested in extreme conditions as they see the need to have a verry stable canopy even when the wind is way over the recomended wind range andthe kite fully depowered. This makes the kites in the end very stable and they handle gusts better than other kites and give the ridder a lot more confidence to push themselfs and ride in more and more wind. Most kites when fully depowered in strong winds arent stable they flap around and drift back then dart forward and would be imposible to controll.

Claims of riding a 12m in conditions gusting to 34kts would seem to be not posible to anyone that hasnt ridden a kite designed for exactly this. These kites are designed to make those kitemares a thing of the past getting stuck out on a kite that is to big isnt such a big deal there arent a lot of kites that are designed to do this so dont dismis this claim as BS unless you can prove otherwise.

Read my post again. I said that you can't claim the top end as gust speed, not that I don't believe it can handle gusts.

from what iv been told i dont think il ever be experiencing such big gusts....some guy was cought the other day in a freak storm like that (15kts suddenly over 35knts gusting) and was able to pull his IDS line but thats the only case iv heard of...

The main aspects i want out of a kite is wide wind range but it seems lots of kites actually have that but i also want it to handle gusty inland winds well where it is gusting from 15-25knts kinda thing...i dont think it could get much worse then that..

iv heard that the speed kites are the best for this ie the crossbow and hydra and now i hear the rebel is also very good...

so out of the three what would you guys go for if you were me?

Select to expand quote

sustan said...

from what iv been told i dont think il ever be experiencing such big gusts....some guy was cought the other day in a freak storm like that (15kts suddenly over 35knts gusting) and was able to pull his IDS line but thats the only case iv heard of...

The main aspects i want out of a kite is wide wind range but it seems lots of kites actually have that but i also want it to handle gusty inland winds well where it is gusting from 15-25knts kinda thing...i dont think it could get much worse then that..

iv heard that the speed kites are the best for this ie the crossbow and hydra and now i hear the rebel is also very good...

so out of the three what would you guys go for if you were me?

If you're kiting gusty inland conditions I assume you're JHB based and your local kitespots will be sterkfontein or the vaal.

The inland gusts are pretty severe so you want a kite with more depower on the bar and one which depowers more for less movement. i.e. less progressive. The gusts can go from 15-25 but the wind also picks up all the way to 40 knots if you're kiting in winter which is the best time to kite there.

I can put you in touch with some of my mates that kite inland there if that helps. They could probably push you in the direction of the kites they are currently using but from what I understand, most are just using conventional bow kites like switchblades and crossbows.

Hi Sustan , check out www.speedkiting.org/site/ and send Basil a email he will be able to help you decide on whats the best kite for your spot. Also check this vid on this page out I think Basil hit 50 knots in around the same wind on the 9m Hydra http://www.speedkiting.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41:5028-knots-at-sterkies&catid=2:blog&Itemid=6
cheers

Sasha and Saffer Iam not sure how many times we have to go through this but have you even seen a hydra in the flesh? Its not your typical normal kite design, but since you 2 seem to know it all explain to us why the hydra goes back into the wind window when it depowers and flys forward when you pull the bar in to power up? When Iam speed kiting I pray for 34 knots average when Iam on the 12.

Select to expand quote

Sasha said...

Hydra said: the 12m is a one kite quiver. thats all i used for over 12 months, and only missed out on a couple of sessions all year.

yes i sell this kite.

cheers james.


SHAMELESS PIMPING !!!

whats there to be ashamed about??

im not forcing anyone to buy a kite, its the only kite 100 percent ideal to these conditions. this is what it was designed to do...
this is a review section isnt it?

also just watch some kites in these conditions, especially those with numerous pullys. imagine pully failure when the wind gusts well over 30 knots. also you will loose the dirrect feel of the kite.

make sure you try before you buy..

cheers james

Select to expand quote

Genetrix said...

Sasha and Saffer Iam not sure how many times we have to go through this but have you even seen a hydra in the flesh? Its not your typical normal kite design, but since you 2 seem to know it all explain to us why the hydra goes back into the wind window when it depowers and flys forward when you pull the bar in to power up? When Iam speed kiting I pray for 34 knots average when Iam on the 12.

I'm sure most speed kiters pray for strong wind when they are kiting but it doesn't make it the usable range of the kite unless you're speed kiting. If you average joe takes out a 12m in 34 knots to go riding then, thats the usable wind.

I've ridden my 12m 08 Cult in genuine and consistent 30 knots (wind speed recorded at a BOM station near where I was riding). I am 95kgs and was riding a 129 Thorn. I was comfortable but, in the gusts, ridiculously over powered and riding most of the time with 6 inches of depower to a foot or more when it gusted. Its comfortable in 18 to 22 knots but I can get going in 15 knots. On the day the gusts were 30 knots plus. I agree with Saffer. The wind range of my Cult isn't 15 to 30 knots plus. The bottom end is just going and the top end is fun but ultimately bordering on (for me anyway) nearly out of control. Go and demo a few kites a few times and make up your own mind. Saffer makes good sense. If you buy Cabrinha apparently you have to wear shorts over your wetsuit.

shot for all the info etc guys
@ Saffer, shot dude... i spoke to the inland guys from inland kiteboarding and they recommend cabrinha without a doubt, more specifically the crossbow 11m in my case.

its difficult to test other kites as all they sell is cabrinha and they the only inland shop which makes it quite appealing to get one incase i have a problem with the kite...besides the fact that im such a novice id probably hardly notice the difference between kites anyway:/

So i think il go for the 09 crossbow 11m

cheers

Everyone that I know of who has ever used a Hydra, always is amazed at the amount of depower the kite has, and Iv'e lost count of the times other kiters have said to me, 'aren't you over powered on that' or 'is that a really a 12m'....when they are on a 9m. and having trouble.
I'll say again....If you have never flown a hydra you just cannot know, so no point in commenting!!! THEY ARE DIFFERENT TO ANY OTHER KITE, GET IT IN YOUR HEADS!! Take a close look at one and you will see.
Rear bridle system etc. etc. etc

@ windhogger. I get that with the Cult as well and fair enough I haven't flown a Hydra but I still think Saffer has a point. Your in SA so do you know where can I demo one. I notice that Genetrix give the wind range of this kite as about 12 to 30 knots but the way the chart works its more like 15 to 25 knots. No doubt individuals could exceed either end of this range. I like the flat shape of the Hydra but wouldn't like having that much bridle hanging off the struts especially in the surf. I agree they are different and I'm keen to demo one now. @ Hydra (James), can you email me some info about them, prices etc. I'd be interested in a 12 if I got one.

hey,hey,hey...
Hydra the thread was not about you, your style and how you kite ( speed kiting).
It's all about Sustan beeing a BEGINNER and asking for the advise.
So advising him on 12 m kite in up to 34 knots wind is PIMPING and it's putting a beginner kiter ( and others around ) at great risk!!!

Select to expand quote

Sasha said...

hey,hey,hey...
Hydra the thread was not about you, your style and how you kite ( speed kiting).
It's all about Sustan beeing a BEGINNER and asking for the advise.
So advising him on 12 m kite in up to 34 knots wind is PIMPING and it's putting a beginner kiter ( and others around ) at great risk!!!

sasha speed kiting is ONE of the kite styles i enjoy, i dont fly a hydra,

im giving advice on a kite that is used on inland conditions, and on a kite with a broad wind range, (because sustan is looking at one kite only)

would you prefer a beginner to get one kite like a FUEL and put it up in gusty inland conditions. safety is the reason of me putting the hydra forward.

as for pimping, who cares?? were in the review section, like i said before, im not forcing anyone to buy a kite.

cheers james

@James. I've had a look at the Hydra and I have to be honest, the design rocks. I thought the rear bridles would be crap but seeing them (thanks for the picks on another forum windhogger) I can see that they would work exceptionally well and not only increase safety when you drop the bar but would maintain the kites shape, allow gusts to blow off without having to sheet out etc. They have a nice flat spot like a Sigma kite so they would have heaps of glide. I tried to call you today but got your message bank. I would never suggest a beginner take any kite out in 35 knots but if they fly and depower like I have seen in the videos I would definately get one.

The guys at JT kiteboarding let me demo an 12m 07 Hydra.
Years kiting: 2 (but a lot of hours a week).
Weight: 100kg wet.
Board: 136 x 41 Aboard Z series.
Kites flown/owned: 16m RRD type 4.1, 14m Toro (04?), 10m Naish X3, 12m Boxer SLE, 12m 2008 Naish Cult, 14m 2009, Naish Helix, 9m 2008 Flexifoil Atom.
Wind during the demo: 7-10 knots genuine. The water was glassy.
The bag alone puts other brands to shame. In 07 Genetrix sold their kites in travel bags with handles and wheels while the rest of us got ripstop sacks.
The kite looks small for a 12 until you put it in the air. It has a deep canopy, a thin leading edge and 4 large diameter struts. It has a front and rear bridle and no pulleys. The bar was a bit messy and the safety a bit average but for the time it was on par with other brands.
We pumped it up to look at it and decided to hold the bridles and it immediately lifted off. We then decided it might fly so we hooked up the lines and it launched immediately. Sending it I was being lifted 5ft or so off the ground. Given the power it generated I decided to take out a board and was planing immediately. The power was on tap in that if you pulled in the bar you accelerated, let it off and you slow down. I was able to boost 5-6ft despite there being no wind and it being a 12m. The Hydra refused to fall backward out of the sky when the lines were slackened. it simply dropped back in the window and powered up. When I let go of the bar the trailing edge fluttered and it flew to the edge of the window. Bar pressure was light but so was the wind. We couldn't believe that I was up and planing on a 12m given the conditions and the lack of wind. This kite is f*cking bull$hit. It flies fast, is predictable, has boost and power on tap and turns with prescision and power. If you haven't flown one you should. I want to buy the 07 model, I can believe the 2010 model could be better. Thanks guys, great kite, I'll be in touch.

shot for the input metalmongrel...sounds to good to be true lol

I havent actually bought a new kite yet because i still havent had a chance to see a hydra yet...

I had a talk with the inland guys and they admitted they have never tried one and that it actually looks quite nice, they are now also trying to get a demo on one.

The guy owning the shop is apparently trying to get hold of the genetrix dealers and hopefully the next time i go to sterkfontein dam (where they do the speed kiting with those kites) il be ale to see one and maybe demo it...

I dont think i will be going wrong with a crossbow though so if one comes along at a desent price il probably take it

Select to expand quote

metalmongrel said...

The guys at JT kiteboarding let me demo an 12m 07 Hydra.
Years kiting: 2 (but a lot of hours a week).
Weight: 100kg wet.
Board: 136 x 41 Aboard Z series.
Kites flown/owned: 16m RRD type 4.1, 14m Toro (04?), 10m Naish X3, 12m Boxer SLE, 12m 2008 Naish Cult, 14m 2009, Naish Helix, 9m 2008 Flexifoil Atom.
Wind during the demo: 7-10 knots genuine. The water was glassy.
The bag alone puts other brands to shame. In 07 Genetrix sold their kites in travel bags with handles and wheels while the rest of us got ripstop sacks.
The kite looks small for a 12 until you put it in the air. It has a deep canopy, a thin leading edge and 4 large diameter struts. It has a front and rear bridle and no pulleys. The bar was a bit messy and the safety a bit average but for the time it was on par with other brands.
We pumped it up to look at it and decided to hold the bridles and it immediately lifted off. We then decided it might fly so we hooked up the lines and it launched immediately. Sending it I was being lifted 5ft or so off the ground. Given the power it generated I decided to take out a board and was planing immediately. The power was on tap in that if you pulled in the bar you accelerated, let it off and you slow down. I was able to boost 5-6ft despite there being no wind and it being a 12m. The Hydra refused to fall backward out of the sky when the lines were slackened. it simply dropped back in the window and powered up. When I let go of the bar the trailing edge fluttered and it flew to the edge of the window. Bar pressure was light but so was the wind. We couldn't believe that I was up and planing on a 12m given the conditions and the lack of wind. This kite is f*cking bull$hit. It flies fast, is predictable, has boost and power on tap and turns with prescision and power. If you haven't flown one you should. I want to buy the 07 model, I can believe the 2010 model could be better. Thanks guys, great kite, I'll be in touch.

Hi Mate, good to see you guys are enjoying the catman pro. I thought you would like it, just wait till you use it in some 25 knots plus.
cheers Tim

Hey Tim. Thanks for the opportunity. I can't compare it to any other kite I have flown its so different. Its got heaps of low end and serious boost. I can't wait to try it in at least 15 knots :). Congrats on the speed record to mate. I'll do another review when I get out in some bigger wind.